Insane Difficulty: Solo Thief Challenge (Thief SSCC) - Insane Difficulty

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LOL

I'm not assuming it was you, Vincent. But someone didn't think it was funny at all.

Hahaha, well not everyone has as great an appreciation for humor as I.
Grog by the way, is probably going to suck with your godawful HP. I agree with the max HP+Evasion set-up but in your place, I might reset till I get Bad or Worst comp Chemists. Those guns friggin hurt.
And have fun with Yardrow. I've noticed this pattern where if Golg is hard for your class, Yardrow will be harder. That fight sucks some serious ass.

I'm actually past both of them already. Just uploading one video per day to keep the overall momentum steady for awhile.

You're right. They were both nightmares. I'm currently at the gate of Riovanes, which is another nightmare. Oh, and Juicy Woods sucked too.

Solo Thief is really beginning to prove itself as one of the hardest challenges of them all!

Riovanes Gate isn't too bad with Evasion set-up'd Rafa+Defend+Lower HP than you.
It removes the Archers from the equation more or less and allows you to focus on the Knights or just Charm the Archers to fuck up the Knights for you.
And yeah, Yuguo is a hellhole if Rafa doesn't have PD learned.
Also /agree, Thief looks..grating to me. While I stand by Mediatorn, Knight, Bard, and TrueSquire (Generic Growths) being harder the actual gameplay is just horrendous. Shit damage, shit HP, no shields, no healing...All you really have going for you is great speed, clothes, and movement.

I tried a Squire SSCC, though he had Ramza's normal growths. I play the ps1 version on my psp. I have no idea how you are supposed to farm anything. The best evasion you have is defending with a Wizard Mantle and hoping you counter tackle and dodge a ton, or snipe with throw stone. I kept trying to find an encounter without Chocobos on Mandalia. No luck. I would actually really like to see a successful farm with Truesquire. All you need is a Judo Outfit. Pisces will help you with Gaf. You might not even need an Outfit, but good luck dodging 70 something percent Bio 2s many times in a row.

Heh, yeah, Grog was a fun nightmare, Yardow was a vicious nightmare, and Rafa didn't have PD for Yuguo. I won't spoil Grog or Yardow, but for Yuguo, I ended up beefing her MA up in the Knight class (P Bag, Aegis, Circlet, Black Robe, Magic Gauntlet) with the hope that she could tank shots long enough to get a couple of solid Asura blasts in. Turns out, even as a Knight with lower base MA, Asura hits ghosts like a fucking Ghostbuster Stream Crossing!

I am using the evading tank Rafa strat for Outside Riovanes, and it really will work.. eventually. The problem I've been facing is that my luck really went to shit after the RNG blessed me at Wiegraf. I keep missing 90% hits and they (knights, mostly) keep hitting 10% shots! I've been turned into a frog on two occasions now, from knights with elemental. After a couple dozen resets or so, I finally decided to take a day or two off from the challenge. I made a lot of progress through a lot of very tough fights in a short amount of time.. Time to cool off.

We're going to be here for awhile..

I like this fight

Very balance

Rafa is watching you die and she's enjoying it.

Charming those summoners is definetly the way to go.

Makes ya wish Rafa wasn't so unhelpful...

Yardow Completisms (part 4 of 4)
EDIT: Upload failed

Sorry, I had set it to upload before I went to sleep and posted the link in advance. Re-uploading now.

EDIT 2:
Yardow Completisms (part 4 of 4)


Re-uploaded successfully.

I've made it to Velius, and I can tell you guys right now that this is going to be one of those massive reset-fests, like Archael's situation with Elmdor. So many things have to go right to even stand a chance.

Loss strategy is out, completely, because I have good compat with Velius and he can one-shot me with Cyclops no matter what I wear.

Max PA is out, because 10 speed isn't enough to get a 3rd punch in before Cyclops resolves, no matter how I manipulate the CT. There is one possibility, but it's astronomical--and it's identical to one of the TWO astronomical odds involving a Thief Hat, so I'd rather go with the option that gives me two astronomical scenarios.

So the offical setup is:

Fists
Thief Hat
Power Sleeve
Bracer

313 HP

And there are two ways to win, depending on how things go with Wiegraf.
There is a movement strategy I can use to manipulate the CT for a double turn on Wiegraf. If he doesn't counter on that first hit, and I have full HP for Velius, I have to go with Strategy #1:

Strategy #1 – w/ 313 (Full HP)
Run up to Velius' side, punch for 170. Double turn, punch again for 170 and wait. Velius charges lethal Cyclops and moves back, the other demons ignore me. I get one last punch before Cyclops resolves, for 260. However, that's 600 damage; not enough to kill him. If that midcharge is a FULL double crit, for 520, that's 860; still not enough. So I have to land two crits—both decent extra damage, and one HAS to be that midcharge. The odds are extremely, ridiculously astronomical: 0.05 * 0.05 = 0.0025%

However, during the fight with Wiegraf, if he does EXACTLY 120 damage to me, that changes things for Velius, and improves my overall odds slightly.

Wiegraf does 168 with Lightning Stab, so that is out of the question. He does 60 with Earth Slash, and that's not enough damage for the second Strategy to work. It has to be 120. Fortunately, he does exactly 120 damage with his Counter, so when I go in for those two hits, the first one just needs to be Countered successfully.

Strategy #2
193 HP for Velius

First turn, I run up and punch Velius from the FRONT for 170. Second turn, I punch again for 170 and run back to a panel where Velius can punch me from the front. Here's the important part: now that my HP is just below 200, Velius can punch me to death, so the AI will sometimes (not always) go for the punch instead of the summon. And since he can only hit me face-first, I have a 25% chance to dodge it. The demons go, but only one can reach me with Dark Holy, and he often chooses not to on this first round because I get another turn right away. (Although sometimes he does it anyway. I can survive one Dark Holy). I get my 3rd turn, punch Velius in the face again (these are 82% shots, by the way) and run to another panel where he can only punch me from the front. The odds of him going for another punch are the same as the odds of him going for that first punch--it's just like Celia's Throw vs Ultima at Elmdor.. there's no reason the AI chooses one over the other; it seems entirely random). If I dodge again, I get to punch Velius two more times. If any of those 5 punches was a decent crit, it's over. (170*5=860 out of ~1000) If not, one of the demons will target me with another Dark Holy before Velius goes, so he'll ignore me and run back behind them. I get a turn before the DH goes off, so I have to charm that demon to cancel it. Then, I get another turn, and a chance to run in for one last punch on Velius, and that’s game.
Quick note: if I took the 168 Lightning Stab instead of the 120 Counter at Wiegraf, I can still survive the first Dark Holy when the demon has average-to-low faith, but the second time he gets a chance to hit me, he does instant-Gigaflare instead. Taking only 120 damage is perfect for encouraging Velius’ goat-punches and encouraging TWO Dark Holy castings—the second of which gives me a great chance to win.

So here's what has to happen in a nutshell
Wiegraf portion :

Land a 66% hit, get countered (71%) without dodging (75%) W: 170 Dmg R: 120 Dmg, 193 remaining
Land a second hit (66%) W: 340 Dmg (Dead)

Velius portion:
Run to his front
Land an 82% hit V: 170 Dmg
Land an 82% hit V: 340 Dmg
Velius chooses punch over summon (50/50?)
Dodge goat punch (25%)
Get Dark Holy cast on me, unavoidable R: ~150 Dmg, ~45 remaining
Land an 82% hit V: 510 Dmg
Velius chooses punch over summon again (50/50?)
Dodge goat punch (25%)
Land an 82% hit V: 680
Land an 82% hit V: 850
***A decent crit from any of those 5 punches should be enough by now, but if not....***
Demon charges Dark Holy on me, Velius runs back behind demon buddy
Charm demon to cancel second Dark Holy attempt (42/55/68%)
Double turn, run around to land 100% hit (on Velius’ side, for once) V: 1020 (Dead)

As ridiculous as that strategy sounds, it's still better than hoping for two near-double crits out of three punches!

Since both strategies involve the same equips, and the same opening moves, I'll basically keep attempting one or the other depending on if I beat Wiegraf with full HP or -120 HP


Now, let’s go back to examine the Max-PA setup:


MAH BIGGA BALLS Strategy (aka MAX PA EQUIPS)

Twist – Power – Bracer – 269 HP

Move around until double turn (sqpat’s movement strat in SSCC write-up), accept 60 damage Earth Slash R: 60 Dmg, 209 remaining
Hit Wiegraf for 220 (sideshot 66%) W: 220
Won’t Counter (29%)
Counters, but Dodged (25%)
Hit Wiegraf for 220 W: 440 (Dead)

Front-hit Velius for 220 (82%) V: 220 Dmg
Front-hit Velius for 220 (82%), run back to safe spot V: 440 Dmg
Velius chooses goat-punch over summon (50/50?)
Dodge goat punch (25%)
Demon charges Dark Holy, it resolves quickly R: ~150 Dmg, ~60 remaining
Front-hit Velius for 220 (82%), run to next safe spot V: 660 Dmg
Velius chooses goat-punch over summon (50/50?)
Dodge goat punch (25%)
Front-hit Velius DAMAGE TOTAL: 880

ONE OF THOSE 4 PUNCHES HAS TO BE A DECENT CRIT TO WIN NOW!

Otherwise, improvise. Demon Gigaflares = GG. Demon charges DH and Velius hides behind him, you might have a chance to CHARM.. but Velius will get you if the other demons don’t, cause you’re in the pit now, and not as fast without that Thief Hat, so it’s likely you WON’T get that chance to charm afterall.

This strat involves less work at Velius, but a LOT of work at Wiegraf, so it is a harder strat to do / watch because it involves doing a long and boring room-dance before finally trying to hit Wiegraf, which can often be a reset anyways, if he counters.

For the sake of time, and patience, the Thief Hat’s the way to go.

Discuss.

Strategy #2 is the most plausible, and while I'd love to see the ballroom dance at least once, it would become incredibly annoying to repeat after awhile.
Strategy #1 well, let's just say 2 crits one-after-the-other, AND one of them a max crit will drive you utterly insane (See: U.Demon Zalera before I stopped being retarded), I can't imagine what two would be like.
With all the math done it's around a 0.1% rate of success with no crits. Most likely higher since the propensity for OHKO Physicals from Zodiacs is higher than 50% I believe.
Come to think of it though...at lvl.50 you should have 9 PA. Power Sleeve+Bracer adds an additional 14 PA, so your punches would do (14*74/100)*14= 145.04 on a neutral target. Thief Hat adds 2 Speed however, so if you use an Air Knife [(14+12)/2]*10= 200. Unless Wiegraf or Velius have some kind of resistance to wind, this seems the better choice to me. Of course, if my math is screwed up please correct me. Oh yeah, I didn't bother to do the compat math because well, I'm kind of lazy.

When we tackle the commentary together, I'll show you the ballroom dance at least once. It's one of the most impressive feats of CT manipulation I've ever seen! Move, wait, move, wait, move, wait, move, punch air, move, punch air, move, punch air, move, punch air, get Earth Slash'd, run in and PUNCH PUNCH!

I'm not sure about the Air Knife. I thought about it, but I don't think I want to use a degenerator just to find one and test it out, and I don't like the idea of fighting the Riovanes' Gate crew again (it was surprisingly tough).

Strat #2 is very doable. It's just a matter of patience.

I checked our time zones: You're 11 hours ahead of me.
So.. 1pm on Saturday, for you, is 2am for me, which is when I'm at work and very easily able to do some commentary.

Would you like to plan on that?

If something comes up, like a shit-load of unexpected work for me to have to do, ahem, at work, then..
Monday night @ midnight (technically the start of Tuesday), for you, is 1pm on Monday for me, and that should work well as a backup plan.

Vincent Sarius, on 07 February 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

26/2=13 so this should be 13*10=130. You do the same damage with Air Knife + 108 Gems, by the way. If you had either 1 PA or SP point more, you could run up with Air Knife for 160, but if we assume the point you got was toward PA, your fists would also do ~166, so...

Yeah, stick to punching shit.

Sounds good to me.
Ahh, I see. I thought what with all the extensive farming you did (seriously, 2 Thief hats!) that you had picked one up.
Well, it's not really all that necessary seeing as how all it does is guarantee that 5 hits would take him down (aka cut out the crit or successful charm probability).
But well, the odds are above 0.01% so yeah I definitely wouldn't advocate redoing Rio Gate or urgh..degenerating.

I used a degenerator a few times in solo Archer. I have 7 less hp than Archael does at level 69. I am not sure how many degenerators it takes to do this, but lowering your max hp feels pretty bad. I noticed the max being lower after leveling back up. It could be random.

I have been following the SSCC FAQ, and I am not sure I understand the movements you have to do in the Wiegraf fight. Once you get to the part where you have to start punching, you punch. Then if you continue to run down to the corner like the FAQ says, you are within range of an Earth Slash, and he does it. Are you not supposed to run down the right side of the room?

On another note, I did the 1 in 4197 strategy with the 3 punches. I got a 320 crit on my first punch, 170 normal punch, but then only regular damage on the midcharge =(.

Alright, I figured it out myself. I am not sure what the hell the FAQ is talking about with moving against the wall and staying in the corner?! It makes no sense.

This is how you do it. No "I think" I guess you have done this already successfully, or I will learn in the video what the heck I could not understand.

Max PA Setup, 10 Speed, Level 50, 269 hp

Turn 1- 4 left, 2 down wait

Turn 2- 6 right, wait

Turn 3- 1 right, 5 up, wait

Turn 4- 5 up, punch.

Turn 5- 6 down, punch

Turn 6- 1 down, left 3. punch. You will be below the right torch, but to the left a little bit. Just do what it says here.

Turn 7- down 4, punch. Wiegraf will Earth Slash you.

Turn 8- You move to Wiegrafs' side and hit him.

Turn 9- Hit him again from the back

This is how you do it. I carefully wrote it out as I performed the actions in the game. Perhaps this is what you already knew. It might actually say to do exactly this in the FAQ. I just can't understand what is written there to come out on top of the fight with only 60 damage taken.