Final Class weapons

Final Class weapons

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#21 Praetarius5018

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31 May 2016 - 10:19 PM

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Rune Master: spells can't be resisted and Lv. 2 spells inflict a 5% debuff stackable with jutusus/down debuffs based on their element (explode reduces mind, mega splash reduces power, thunder bolt reduces defense, earth quake reduces speed) – status effects always land from tier 3 spells

a) I'd like to avoid "doing the same as debuff X AND stacking with it", for certain numbers we can already stack a ton of things, so another one on top of that is simply too much
b) what do you mean with "status effects always land"? all status effects of spells always succeed unless the target is immune, no RNG involved.

#22 mr_smartiepant

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01 June 2016 - 04:07 AM

Praetarius5018, on 31 May 2016 - 10:19 PM, said:

Well they're final class weapons so I figured I'd make the suggestion, since they'd only be available per class rather than character. Also I didn't realize the effect always landed – I thought a RNG was involved.

#23 mr_smartiepant

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01 June 2016 - 04:10 AM

Kei, on 31 May 2016 - 06:03 PM, said:

You can't inflict two status effects at the same time

Would adding Silence effect to her Anti-Magic work then? DM seemed to be the most DOT/status based class since it had access to poison and sleep, so I figured why not augment that angle and give her silence too.

#24 Praetarius5018

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01 June 2016 - 08:03 AM

mr_smartiepant, on 01 June 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

Also I didn't realize the effect always landed – I thought a RNG was involved.

on weapon attacks with status only, spells just do, they know no try.

I'm not 100% sure but spells CAN have 2+ status ailments BUT if even 1 is resisted all are blocked.

#25 Praetarius5018

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01 June 2016 - 12:06 PM

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Paladin: Turn Undead affects undead 2 levels under caster and deals Lv. 1.5 Light damage to devils, dark creatures and demons.

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Lord: damage bonus, high crit rate vs werwolves and mages and Twinkle Rain provides immunity from any status it heals

well, tinkle rain DOESN'T heal status ailments, it inflicts one - a positive one but it inflicts one

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Swordmaster: Increased HP drain with Moon Saber, sabers have increased damage and no saber damage gets reflected back to Duran.

sooo Excalibur 3.0?

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-God Hand: Counter Magic adds 75% thorn damage to magic attacks received against the caster with moderate chance to silence against non-boss enemies and lowers counter chance with magic

what...

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Ninja Master: light attack, no tech gain, high crit bonus, crits get atk bonus based on INT – eva increases at night
-Night Blade: 35% Lv2/3 tech bonus damage if below half health – accuracy increases at night

this reminds me, there's only an advantage for night time (Kevin) but nothing for day time, food for thought otherwise.

mr_smartiepant, on 31 May 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:

-Sage: Twinkle Rain provides passive Heal over time and elemental sabers provide a stat increase, rather than damage increase, based on the element (e.g. Earth Saber provides bonus to defense + changes element of weapon to earth, flame saber increases attack power, ice saber increases MP regen rate– since she already has Mind Up – thunder saber increase agility)

dunno, feels like way too many bonuses.
heal over time alone - without ongoing cost - is already too much, imo.

#26 Kei

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01 June 2016 - 12:15 PM

Praetarius5018, on 01 June 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

I'm not 100% sure but spells CAN have 2+ status ailments

How would that even work though? Don't status just overwrite the last one?

#27 mr_smartiepant

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02 June 2016 - 05:14 AM

Praetarius5018, on 01 June 2016 - 12:06 PM, said:

I specifically excluded demons because Paladin already has a huge advantage vs one final boss (Dark Lich), giving him another strong power vs another (Archdemon) is too much.
(Insider: Turn Undead is Lv0)
Was one of the reasons why I even considered halving/quartering the power of death spell/turn undead vs. bosses.

well, tinkle rain DOESN'T heal status ailments, it inflicts one - a positive one but it inflicts one

sooo Excalibur 3.0?

what...

this reminds me, there's only an advantage for night time (Kevin) but nothing for day time, food for thought otherwise.

dunno, feels like way too many bonuses.
heal over time alone - without ongoing cost - is already too much, imo.

@Paladin – ok that's fair w/ the demon thing. I forgot that Archdemon was one of the Final Bosses, which is silly because I almost always pick Lise as my hero.

@Lord well it could just provide status immunity OR increase resistance to the status or something, unless you'd rather focus on Lord's physical attributes – I figured he was strong enough as it is, so why not make one of his spells unique

@SwordMaster – Ok fair point on the excalibur, but why not just buff the attack bonus his sword magic gives – he is the sword master after all

@God Hand – ok ok I know this one seems crazy, but isn't he the ONLY class with access to this spell? Warrior Monk already gets the heal bonus, so why not add a thorns effect to Counter Magic – even if its only as small as 15% damage reflected it makes God Hand really unique since he is the only one who could make this happen and his limited spell selection balances this good buff and the fact that this would be a final class weapon, so the effect isn't always present

@Hawk's classes – for Ranger/Wanderer why not give them a bonus to some stat during the daytime, like defense and magic defense – even if its a nominal bonus, that's unique

@Sage – sorry I meant to include one or the other as a qualified – either one could fit Carlie's role as party support – if you make it so Twinkle Rain drains all of her MP for the heal over time effect halves her MP recovery/rate of recovery until the end of battle it would prevent the spamming or overuse of the spell – is it possible to create an on-going MP cost?

#28 Praetarius5018

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02 June 2016 - 09:07 AM

mr_smartiepant, on 02 June 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

@God Hand – ok ok I know this one seems crazy, but isn't he the ONLY class with access to this spell? Warrior Monk already gets the heal bonus, so why not add a thorns effect to Counter Magic – even if its only as small as 15% damage reflected it makes God Hand really unique since he is the only one who could make this happen and his limited spell selection balances this good buff and the fact that this would be a final class weapon, so the effect isn't always present

mr_smartiepant, on 02 June 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

is it possible to create an on-going MP cost?

yes but depending on the "direction" it can get complicated.
1) Charlie emits a passive aura that drains X MP per interval for effect Y? trivial, subtract her MP or remove the buff.
2) Charlie casts a buff on a party member that drains her MP regularly? doable but quite a headache.
*check interval on party member X
*look if any of the three heroes is even charlie
*look if charlie has the required weapon
*look if charlie has the necessary MP

something else to consider:
making the "Balmunk" and "Levatein" weapons character specific. though not class-specific, Paladin, Lord, Swordmaster, Duelist would have the same two weapons there.

#29 mr_smartiepant

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03 June 2016 - 04:15 AM

Praetarius5018, on 02 June 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

because "thorns" if just "reflect element" modified to also check for weapon attacks.
so that effect is just the exact same thing it was in vanilla - either broken and unusuable or the other broken, godmode.

yes but depending on the "direction" it can get complicated.
1) Charlie emits a passive aura that drains X MP per interval for effect Y? trivial, subtract her MP or remove the buff.
2) Charlie casts a buff on a party member that drains her MP regularly? doable but quite a headache.
*check interval on party member X
*look if any of the three heroes is even charlie
*look if charlie has the required weapon
*look if charlie has the necessary MP

something else to consider:
making the "Balmunk" and "Levatein" weapons character specific. though not class-specific, Paladin, Lord, Swordmaster, Duelist would have the same two weapons there.

@Godhand OK well how about instead of a thorns effect, is it possible to augment it so hostile NPCs are less likely to spam magic in rapid succession?

Making them character specific would definitely open up more customization options, but you could lose making each final class shine in one aspect – instead of augmenting specific abilities, you'd have to go general and it might be a little boring/less fun to do that

#30 Praetarius5018

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03 June 2016 - 08:40 AM

mr_smartiepant, on 03 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

@Godhand OK well how about instead of a thorns effect, is it possible to augment it so hostile NPCs are less likely to spam magic in rapid succession?

no sorry

mr_smartiepant, on 03 June 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

Making them character specific would definitely open up more customization options, but you could lose making each final class shine in one aspect – instead of augmenting specific abilities, you'd have to go general and it might be a little boring/less fun to do that

you'd have two "character specific" and one "final class specific" weapons, that wasn't necessarily an either or. currently these two weapons would be the same for all 6 characters.