This is on nATB and ATB.

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#21 Lockirby2

Lock Birdy

Job: Member
Posts: 1,741

07 December 2014 - 10:40 AM

Miacis, on 07 December 2014 - 09:28 AM, said:

As much as I dislike the whole concept behind playing internet-psychologist in general, I can't help but feel that was both both spot-on and deserved.

It's not a thing that I generally do, but Some Anvils Need to be Dropped, and I felt this was one of them.

#22 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

07 December 2014 - 10:42 AM

Lockirby2, on 07 December 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

It's not a thing that I generally do, but Some Anvils Need to be Dropped, and I felt this was one of them.

FTFY.

#23 Synchysi

Co-Creator of BNW

Job: Hacker
Posts: 1,081

07 December 2014 - 11:03 AM

As a rule, I don't have anything against people playing the game outside of the way we intend. It's a single-player game; people are free to do with it what they want. If Bunk wants to play on active, fine. More power to him. If he doesn't think nATB serves a purpose and wants to let us know, again, fine. Feedback is what the forums are for.

I just want to know why he felt it necessary to make four different threads to discuss it. That's the sticking point.

#24 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

07 December 2014 - 11:10 AM

Synchysi, on 07 December 2014 - 11:03 AM, said:

I just want to know why he felt it necessary to make four different threads to discuss it. That's the sticking point.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's because he feels ignored.

Which.. probably isn't far from the truth. I've yet to see him really make a coherent argument against nATB, and certainly not a counterpoint, which is why people don't usually pay him any mind when he starts talking about it. Nakar pretty much made those points himself.

#25 thzfunnymzn

Game Breaker

Job: Member
Posts: 2,116

07 December 2014 - 01:22 PM

BunkJuggs, on 07 December 2014 - 03:57 AM, said:

I get the impression that there is no grand difference between the two modes of play. Overall, game-wide, you might have to use only a dozen more Phoenix Downs or Life spells in active than wait. For someone for whom 'active' is a problem: play the fast version of wait.

With nATB all operation gauges pause when an event occurs, regardless of affiliation. In active ATB no operation gauge ever pauses. I don't see how this changes gameplay at all, besides favoring a speed character once in a while.

Honestly: A beginner won't know to even try and change 'active' vs. 'wait' let alone the speed. Only the curious or the versed will change either setting. Someone who is skilled enough to understand the true change that occurs when changing the setting to 'active' will understand the nature of the change. nATBE basically makes passive… active. How is that any different from active, except a few speed-character actions. The most important fights are not won because of Gau or Shadow alone. The most important fights are won because they're fought well.

QED: nATB is what happens when bitchy people beta test 'heroic' or 'legendary;'' rather than an ordinary game. The outcome of 'active' ATB is similar enough to nATB as to prevent relevant justification for nATB.

PS: Save the coding space for Celes' Shock. Seriously, she retains a totally relevant stamina build that would interrupt both her magic and vigor build to receive extra credit.

This was a very arrogant post on your part. Why did you demean everyone else here and praise yourself as a better gamer?

I can tell you at least one reason I prefer n-ATB to active-ATB is that I like being able to sit and think about what my next action is going to be. Even if I don't take a lot of time to actually perform my next action, the very idea that I'm under time pressure to select my next move can make me slip up and make mistakes that I'd rather not make. As such, I always chose wait instead of active. Even under the n-ATB, I will occasionally load up a menu just to keep the battle from progressing and to consider my next action.

Does wanting to sit back and think about my next action make me a worse gamer?

#26 FFTA

Master Hacker

Job: Administrator
Posts: 3,034

07 December 2014 - 01:52 PM

No more threads about this. 4 is enough, and if you haven't gotten anywhere by now, you aren't going to get anywhere with your point.

Generally, forums don't work like this. Posting 4 threads because you aren't getting the response that you want to get in the first 3 is not acceptable behavior.

Also, both modes of play are clearly accepted by many members of the community. The argument seems pretty irrelevant... to say the least.

#27 BTB

Co-Creator of BNW

Job: Modder
Posts: 4,548

07 December 2014 - 02:05 PM

I should probably mention that, as far as nATB goes, what will happen with it has pretty much already been decided. While I do look to the beta testing thread for any balance issues that may need to be addressed, I feel from the feedback I've gotten that I've already resolved the one of major concern.

nATB will remain optional (i.e. a separate "beta" patch) until 2.0 for reasons I will not fully disclose as of yet. That said, the "active" battle system (as opposed to "wait") may go the way of the dodo bird as early as 1.6.

As far as my personal opinion on the matter at hand, it pretty much mirrors what Synchysi said earlier:

Synchysi, on 07 December 2014 - 06:49 AM, said:

I've long felt that combat pacing, especially early in the game, was a significant problem in BNW. Additionally, speed suffers from a "soft cap" based on command delays and animation length; the "Active" ATB style actually exacerbates this issue. Globally raising multipliers wasn't really an option, since doing so would lower the point of diminishing returns for speed. nATB allows us to not only greatly boost speed multipliers to alleviate this problem, but it helps to prevent the player from reaching the speed soft cap.