Before the fight with a crab, I tried challenging him with party lv5. He wiped me clean so quickly so I need to do some grinding and challenge him again at lv. 10. Next boss fight is golem and they can wipe my party in 5 seconds without luck and caution. I managed to beat them without additional grinding though.
I usually end the game before reaching level 50 so I wonder if that's still possible in hard difficulty.
Is it possible to beat hard mode without grinding?
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#2
- Creator of SD3 Hardtype
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05 January 2016 - 02:12 PM
depends on your definition of "grinding"
I sorta expect you to match the enemies level (give or take 5-10%), the rest should come from gear and tactics.
With just beating every enemy once that should be relatively done; or add exp gear and vastly outlevel everything then... with 3x exp armor (well, not for bosses) I hit Lv21-22 at Tzenker (Lv19 herself).
The final "goal" is Lv 90-99 for the final boss who has Lv99 himself.
Or rather the entire exp curve is kinda x1.9 times faster than vanilla.
To get from Lv98 to Lv99 requires about 500k exp, if my notes are right; if you equip the max of 9 exp up items you can get about 70-85k exp per enemy in the final area.
The first likely grinding area I'm kinda expecting is after Buccano/when you hit the desert or snow area.
Thanks to how the 2nd class changes work, you need specific class change items, a.k.a. not-so-common ???-seed drops and then some luck for the right items (or pay 3k per item in that shop)
The second is the god beast hunting session; let's just face it, the original was a rush there.
7 mini-dungeons that wanted +2 levels each, now +3... yeah...
This is probably the region where the bonus exp from being underlevelled will carry you the most - or you had abused exp gear so much that you will be 10-15 levels above par, can happen too.
I sorta expect you to match the enemies level (give or take 5-10%), the rest should come from gear and tactics.
With just beating every enemy once that should be relatively done; or add exp gear and vastly outlevel everything then... with 3x exp armor (well, not for bosses) I hit Lv21-22 at Tzenker (Lv19 herself).
The final "goal" is Lv 90-99 for the final boss who has Lv99 himself.
Or rather the entire exp curve is kinda x1.9 times faster than vanilla.
To get from Lv98 to Lv99 requires about 500k exp, if my notes are right; if you equip the max of 9 exp up items you can get about 70-85k exp per enemy in the final area.
The first likely grinding area I'm kinda expecting is after Buccano/when you hit the desert or snow area.
Thanks to how the 2nd class changes work, you need specific class change items, a.k.a. not-so-common ???-seed drops and then some luck for the right items (or pay 3k per item in that shop)
The second is the god beast hunting session; let's just face it, the original was a rush there.
7 mini-dungeons that wanted +2 levels each, now +3... yeah...
This is probably the region where the bonus exp from being underlevelled will carry you the most - or you had abused exp gear so much that you will be 10-15 levels above par, can happen too.
#3
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05 January 2016 - 02:23 PM
Windows X, on 05 January 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:
Before the fight with a crab, I tried challenging him with party lv5. He wiped me clean so quickly so I need to do some grinding and challenge him again at lv. 10. Next boss fight is golem and they can wipe my party in 5 seconds without luck and caution. I managed to beat them without additional grinding though.
I usually end the game before reaching level 50 so I wonder if that's still possible in hard difficulty.
I usually end the game before reaching level 50 so I wonder if that's still possible in hard difficulty.
I've completed the game several times and I did have to grind in a few spots, but not overly so. With the new enhancements you'll probably reach Lv. 99 during the final story dungeons before even reaching the Holy Land the second time around.
The trick to the hack is using different weapons/accessories to your advantage and realizing that each stat point at level up does matter whereas in vanilla it did not matter at all.
FMH sucks early on and he can be really problematic if you have squishy characters like Carlie or Angela. Whenever I start with these girls I always pump their dex, vit, and a little bit in str in order to survive FMH – with the boys pump their PIE to survive Holy Ball. Golems can be problematic for spell casters too, so I usually focus on the melee stats until after the bridge because then the bosses because easier to handle for the squishier characters.
Always check the equipment excel sheet and plan ahead for bosses e.g., if you know you need protection against an element wear armor for that element or status effect. Hardmode is pretty intense, but once you get the hang of it, it'll become easier.
#4
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05 January 2016 - 02:50 PM
Thank you for your opinion. It looks like not party combination can go well. I heard some people got trouble with some bosses before class change and some gave up after few god beasts.
I'd like to try with high AGI/LUK after max VIT. I wonder if it's possible to beat the game with all kinds of combinations. Is there some sort of restrictions that it won't work out in this hard level like if you make poor party, you're busted?
I'd like to try with high AGI/LUK after max VIT. I wonder if it's possible to beat the game with all kinds of combinations. Is there some sort of restrictions that it won't work out in this hard level like if you make poor party, you're busted?
#5
- Creator of SD3 Hardtype
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05 January 2016 - 03:05 PM
mr_smartiepant, on 05 January 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:
I've completed the game several times and I did have to grind in a few spots, but not overly so.
Could you tell me which grind spots and their reasons?
I intend to adjust a few things and would like to know if our notes match or contradict each other.
(others are of course welcome to comment on that too)
mr_smartiepant, on 05 January 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:
each stat point at level up does matter whereas in vanilla it did not matter at all.
well, relatively. especially with vanilla's bugs where many stats did exactly nothing and taking 8 damage off of half the spells per point int or pie is oh-so satisfying... when they deal 250+
it might be worth mentioning that most stat points also profit from level now; e.g. if you have 20 STR at Lv60 it gives more attack power than the same 20 STR at Lv20 gave (it does NOT matter WHEN you put those points!!)
In vanilla it was just a one-time boost and that was it.
Honestly, fitting gear is more important.
Windows X, on 05 January 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:
I wonder if it's possible to beat the game with all kinds of combinations. Is there some sort of restrictions that it won't work out in this hard level like if you make poor party, you're busted?
this depends; you kinda need good spell coverage; at least of the support kinds - both defenses up and power/magic down go a long way.
Later boss fights more or less demand both unless you have godlike stats/gear selection.
#6
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05 January 2016 - 03:18 PM
Wow. It's pretty much impossible now with no buff/debuff party I want to try. I'd like to go to normal route but -50% nerv is too easy. How about +10% attack -20% damage for normal difficulty? I'd like to play a challenge but all party combinations can win the game without too much effort of grinding and godly gears.
#7
- Casual Gamer
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- Posts: 190
05 January 2016 - 04:59 PM
Praetarius5018, on 05 January 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:
Could you tell me which grind spots and their reasons?
I intend to adjust a few things and would like to know if our notes match or contradict each other.
(others are of course welcome to comment on that too)
well, relatively. especially with vanilla's bugs where many stats did exactly nothing and taking 8 damage off of half the spells per point int or pie is oh-so satisfying... when they deal 250+
it might be worth mentioning that most stat points also profit from level now; e.g. if you have 20 STR at Lv60 it gives more attack power than the same 20 STR at Lv20 gave (it does NOT matter WHEN you put those points!!)
In vanilla it was just a one-time boost and that was it.
Honestly, fitting gear is more important.
this depends; you kinda need good spell coverage; at least of the support kinds - both defenses up and power/magic down go a long way.
Later boss fights more or less demand both unless you have godlike stats/gear selection.
I intend to adjust a few things and would like to know if our notes match or contradict each other.
(others are of course welcome to comment on that too)
well, relatively. especially with vanilla's bugs where many stats did exactly nothing and taking 8 damage off of half the spells per point int or pie is oh-so satisfying... when they deal 250+
it might be worth mentioning that most stat points also profit from level now; e.g. if you have 20 STR at Lv60 it gives more attack power than the same 20 STR at Lv20 gave (it does NOT matter WHEN you put those points!!)
In vanilla it was just a one-time boost and that was it.
Honestly, fitting gear is more important.
this depends; you kinda need good spell coverage; at least of the support kinds - both defenses up and power/magic down go a long way.
Later boss fights more or less demand both unless you have godlike stats/gear selection.
The grind spots were the sub zero ice fields to hit Lv. 38 for the 2d class change and the Desert area for Bill/Ben 2.0 – I ALWAYS have problems with Bill/Ben. I also grind for a bit before FMH to get melee stats high enough to not wipe on him, especially when I start with Angela and a little bit before Zable Fahr to avoid getting OHKO with its death spell.
I second the utility spell recommendation. Whenever I make a group these are my MUST have's:
1. Healing light
2. Anti-Magic
3. Twinkle Rain
4. Power Down/Mind Down OR Mind Up/Defense Up – the defensive stats are more important to my play style as opposed to the melee/nuke stats
5. Elemental Damage via sabers or nukes
Everyone plays differently, but for me elemental damage/nuking can go without – although with the tweaks to skill sets you're likely to get a little bit of everything regardless.
Also, feel free to post in the job suggestion thread if you like a particular character and want to know some groups they may have synergy with.
#8
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05 January 2016 - 11:18 PM
mr_smartiepant, on 05 January 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:
a little bit before Zable Fahr to avoid getting OHKO with its death spell.
you could have used the Wishbone or (a couple) Red Moon Horn(s)
#9
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06 January 2016 - 06:05 AM
Praetarius5018, on 05 January 2016 - 11:18 PM, said:
you could have used the Wishbone or (a couple) Red Moon Horn(s)
This is true, but the extra stat points in PIE to help resist his magic attacks are useful too
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