Insane Difficulty: Character/Job Party Recommendations - Insane Difficulty

Hey everyone, since the newest version has been out and been quite stable, I felt like having a separate topic for job/class combinations may prove helpful for those who were looking to start out or for veterans who have played the game to share parties that worked well for them and what didn't work so well.

One of my favorite parties has been:

Dervish/Arch Mage/ Vanadis

Pros
All Lvl 2 MT Elemental Magics
All Debuffs
All Buffs
Heal Light + Tinkle Rain
Moon Saber/Leaf Saber
Anti Magic
Energy Ball
Aura Wave
Body Change (usefulness is reduced once Lise learns Freya)

Cons
Physically this group is a little weak against melee enemies and enemies who counter magic
No Elemental Sabers
Melee may be a little lacking, but if you use the STAT Swap weapons this can compensate for your Lv 2/3 tech damage
No real status magic i.e. sleep flower/poison bubble/transshape/half vanish – must rely on the weapons
You lose an accessory slot on Lise to get MT Heal Light
Late game Angela's magic isn't as useful and she is relatively frail, so you'd have to sacrifice more damage output equipment for survivability.

I think this is a really good group for beginners because it gives the player a lot of useful skills in the game – the damage output is pretty high in the early game; however, towards the end of the game where monsters counter with magic, Angela becomes more support oriented, which is manageable if you arm her with one of her stat swapping weapons.

Good to see a topic like this at last!

The party I'm planning for my next game is Vanadis, Rogue/Wanderer and Archmage/Necromancer/Evil Shaman. Do you have any recommendations here?

Sefie1999AD, on 17 September 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:

Really depends on what you're looking for, so here's a few suggestions.

Vanadis/Wanderer/Necromancer

Pros:
Heal Light/Tinkle Rain
4 MT Buffs
Black Curse
Anti Magic
All elemental attack magic
MT Holy Ball & Black Rain
Dark Saber
Power Down
Pretty much every status effect in the game

Cons:
Necromancer only has ST Attack Magic, so she won't be clearing screens like the Arch Mage
Lacking the Cardinal Elemental Sabers
Missing MT speed/protect/mind down
Physically both Wanderer & Necromancer are weak, but with Transshape it may not be so bad.
Carlie's poor attack stat, could be tuned into a PRO with her stat swap weapon, that way you can forget STR altogether

Vanadis/Arch Mage/Rogue (probably the best combination with the most to offer)
Pros:
Heal Light/Tinkle Rain
4 MT Buffs
Anti Magic
All Lv. 2 MT elemental attack magic
All Debuffs (land mind/cutter missile/ power down/mind down
Aura Wave

Cons:
Doubled up on Body Change
Lose pretty much all of the fun utility magic
No elemental sabers

Vanadis/Evil Shaman/Rogue

Pros
Heal Light/Tinkle Rain
4 MT Buffs
Anti Magic
All debuffs (demon breath/cutter missile/land mind/ power down)
Half Vanish
Sleep Flower
Body Change

Con
Only MT spells are Ghost Road + Holy Ball + Demon Breath (high MP cost)
Double up with a lot of the elemental spells i.e. both Hawke and Carlie have ST elemental nukes in these roles – this could also be seen as a pro if you main Lise and like to nuke the god beasts

Lord/Magus/one of dark Hawke, dark Lise, or Necromancer

+Lord and Magus split the stat-ups
+Ninja Master has MT stat-downs, Nightblade has ST but can back it up with status spells and higher attack. Necromancer can neuter one enemy completely and help nuke.
-lack of cardinal saber spells
-overlap on the elemental nukes. Carlie is also stuck ST.
-Lord is the only sturdy character unless you go with Lise.

Radiant_Gene, on 18 September 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

I wouldn't call this overlap a weakness since both nukers can contribute directly to causing damage. It's almost like saying a team of Death Hand and Duelist has overlap on physical fighting.

mr_smartiepant, on 17 September 2015 - 07:58 PM, said:

My playing style is mostly using status ailments to defeat the enemies, using support magic a lot, and using elemental attacks and possibly techs for causing additional damage. I also like having a group that is hard to kill, so Heal Light is a must, and I'd like to have Tinkle Rain, Protect Up and possibly Power Down as well.

For the teams you listed:

Vanadis/Wanderer/Necromancer - I like the idea of this party, a lot. The amount of buff and debuff magic available is huge. A problem could be that you only have Carlie as the elemental mage, and she's only an ST sniper. When you get 2x Half Vanish, none of the normal enemies should last long, but I'm not sure how this team will do against bosses. Anti-Magic, Lunatic and Black Curse are a great way to open up a boss battle, but what will you do after that? The team is also quite weak physically. Hawk could use alternate stat weapons, but they don't seem very good for a crit build. The biggest problem I see with this party is the first half of the game, until you've learned all your abilities. Ranger and Enchantress aren't exactly powerful classes, and dealing with enemies like Slimes and Guardians will be tough. To compensate for the group's weaknesses, I may consider taking Archmage instead of Necromancer, as that will give me better elemental coverage and MT magic in the early game - but then I'd only have Power Down and Magic Down as debuffs.

Vanadis/Arch Mage/Rogue - a very promising party, indeed. The biggest problem with this team is that resistant late-game enemies with high HP (Swordmaster, Guardian, Kaiser Mimic etc) will take forever to kill, as you don't have spells like Half Vanish or Death Spell. This was a problem in my previous game (Rogue, God Hand and Archmage), so I'll probably try something different next time.

Vanadis/Evil Shaman/Rogue - unlike what you said, this team doesn't get Half Vanish. Sounds like a decent team, maybe a slightly weaker and ST-oriented version of Vanadis, Archmage and Rogue.

Sefie1999AD, on 18 September 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

whoops sorry, i made an excel sheet with every skill each class gets, I must have had wandering eyes that late at night, my bad! If you use Carlie's STAT swap weapon she can make up for her physical strength since she'll use a modifier you'll actually pump. I did this with Angela late game and her damage was cranked pretty high – same can be said of Ranger Hawk, I THINK he has a LUCK sweap weapon. Admittedly I never used these parties and I never used Hawk; however, physical damage is always going to be a bit weaker than techs, so if you pump the correct stats they may swing for crap damage, but their techs will wreck all kinds of havoc.

I do hope you appreciated the suggestions! If you select one, please let me know how well they work or don't work.

You could also do Vanadis/Arch Mage/Wanderer

Pro:
All the best utility spells
Lv 2 MT Magic
You get overlap with Body Change, Aura Wave, Anti-Magic (but these are all amazing spells, so the redundancy might be good).

The obvious con is you lose the two debuffs from Rogue, so you're stuck only with Power Down/Mind Down (which admittedly isn't a bad thing, again).

However, another problem is this party is physically weak. This could be rectified with the stat swap weapons to an extent for late-game.

So really the choice is yours! On paper, Rogue/Arch Mage/Vanadis looks the best IMO, but that might be some bias towards my own play style.

mr_smartiepant, on 18 September 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

I usually give mages (Carlie and Angela) weapons that cause status ailments, such as poison, silence or petrify, and for bosses, I give them alternate stat weapons. I usually don't raise Angela's Luck much, but her Vit weapon was pretty good. Carlie can benefit from both Agl (cast time) and Vit, so she could use either stat weapon. Hawk's stat weapons aren't Luck-based, as that would make him too OP, but Int- and Spr-based. They'd be a good option, unless you plan a crit build for Hawk, with Energy Ball and crit equipment.

mr_smartiepant, on 18 September 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Sure, thanks for your party analysis.

mr_smartiepant, on 18 September 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Thanks to Freya, Body Change is useless anyway. Having two possible casters for Aura Wave and Anti-Magic is good in a way that you don't need to have a single character spend all their MP for those spells. With two characters, you'll get the buffs/debuffs done faster, with both characters having more MP left for the rest of the battle.

mr_smartiepant, on 18 September 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

On paper, I agree. However, my view is somewhat affected by the way my Rogue/God Hand/Archmage team performed in the late game. For Dark Cave, Dark Castle and Mana Holyland, Rogue's spells became ineffective (even with max Luck), and enemies like Swordmaster, Dark Lord and Kaiser Mimic had so much HP that Angela needed at least 3-4 casts to snipe them even with max Int and Spr, Fireblaze (Magic Up) and Cutter Missile.

I'm actually considering two parallel games, one having Vanadis/Wanderer/Necromancer, and the other having Vanadis/Light Hawk/Archmage. If you can't decide between two, try them both. xD

what are opinions on:
1) Warrior Monk, Bishop, Dragon Master
2) Duelist, Night Blade, Vanadise
3) Ninjamaster, Magus, Bishop

any ideas for a party with Rune Master?
that's currently the only class I just can't see "working" in a not-too-disadvantaged party...

Praetarius5018, on 21 September 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

1) Warrior Monk, Bishop, Dragon Master

Pros – Heal Light/Twinkle Rain, All MT Debuffs, Anti Magic, All Sabers except Moon and Dark, Sleep Flower, Lunatic, MInd Up, Power Up, Defense Up (Only Missing Speed Up), AOE Poison.

Cons – Warrior Monk and Bishop are both geared for healing, so there may be an issue with damage output. Neither class seems to have good synergy with the other. WM has a STR stat of 28 and Bishop beats it with a STR of 29 (assuming you crank STR). Additionally, Bishop is quite fragile. DM is Lise's physically weakest class; however, she does come equipped with MT poison in the form of Jormy. No real sense of direct elemental damage beyond Holy Ball and Saint Beam without relying on the elemental sabers.

Overall I think that this would be an average team. Lise comes equipped with a multitude of status spells to help with indirect damage and Kevin is capable of off healing.

2) Duelist, Night Blade, Vanadise

Pros – Anti Magic/ All sabers except Moon and Saint, Aura Wave, All buffs, All debuffs, Heal Light, Twinkle Rain, Poison Breath, Deadly Weapon, Black Rain, Blow Needles, Freya
Con – Weak elemental damage, no holy attack magic, no enhancing magic for party members outside the buffing skills

I'd say this party is a pretty good one. All characters are physically durable and capable of inflicting quite a bit of damage through their techs. You have the elemental wheel covered with Duran's sabers and Hawk's traps. For the more difficult enemies Hawk has poison and silence and Lise has access to chibiko through her summon as well. This party has a lot of good things going for it and I think it could do well.

3) Ninjamaster, Magus, Bishop

Pros – All debuffs and whatever analyse does, Healing, Lv. 2 elemental magic, Poison, Lunatic, Defense Up, Magic Shield, 5/8 sabers <missing moon, dark, and leaf>, Magus has mind up to compensate for Magic Shield, Death Spell

Cons - no anti magic, no speed up/power up, Magus and Bishop are squishy, no real way to handle harder enemies who get too uppity or out of control, i.e. no sleep, body change, or silence – need to rely on the stat weapons for those, no enhancing utility magic to help make Ninja Master shine.

Overall I don't think this is a bad team. Bishop and Magus work well with each other, Bishop buffs Magus with saber, Magus unleashes elemental fury. Magus has some status spells to handle immune/difficult enemies, but she pales in comparison to what is in the Wanderer's wheelhouse. Ninja Master is pretty durable and has incredibly high evasion. He brings some more elemental fury to the party, but he won't be winning much of a prize in the damagae department compared to Angie. He could do some good damage with a stat inflicting weapon based on his high luck. This party could work pretty well if there was some method of crowd control, but none of these classes have any skills for containing enemies. The characters work well together and if Hawk is able to keep Angela covered, they can easily work together to tear down the mobs. Also, not having anti magic is going to make a lot of enemies/bosses unnecessarily harder. ALTHOUGH I think you can buy the anti magic item in Byzel, but I'm not positive.

4) Lord/Wanderer/ Rune Master

Pros – Anti Magic, All utility spells, 4 cardinal sabers, defense up, mind up, speed up, speed down, Lv. 2 AOE Magic, Lv. 3 Magic

Cons – missing power up, power down, defense down, mind down,

Lord runs interception, Wanderer buffs and enters the fray, and both keep the Rune Master safe to throw spells all she wants. Wanderer has high Luck, so giving him a status weapon would be ideal. Power Up can be fixed via Byzel items.

5) Dragon Master, Rune Master, God Hand

Pros – All debuffs, Anti Magic, Lv. 2 AOE Magic, Lv. 3 Magic, AOE Poison, AOE Sleep, Lunatic, 4 Cardinal Sabers, Saint Saber, Power Up, Aura Wave

Cons – Missing 3 buffs, but those can be bought via Byzel items or secret shop accessories. DM is pretty meaty, same thing with GH. RM just sits back and either elemental snipes or AOEs.

When deciding my party, I want at least the following skills:
1) stat-ups (at least Protect Up)
2) stat-downs (at least Power Down)
3) Heal Light
4) Tinkle Rain
5) Anti-Magic
6) elemental spells

Sabers aren't on top of my priority, since many mobs have monsters that are weak to element X and resistant to Y, and a monster that is resistant to X and weak to Y. Therefore, I prefer sniping to sabers. In addition, stat-ups are more universal than sabers, so I'd rather have stat magic than sabers.

Considering the factors above, it's very hard to find a good team with a Rune Master that is compatible with my playing style. RM brings elements and sabers, so the other two will have to cover 1-5. To do this, I'd have to take Vanadis and either Dark Carlie or Dark Hawk. If you want Anti-Magic too, Carlie will have to be Evil Shaman. Alternatively, go for Dark Lise and someone who can cast stat-ups. All in all, I can think of two parties that can work:

* Vanadis, Rune Master, Evil Shaman
* Lord (or Light Kevin), Dragon Master, Rune Master

The first team is physically quite weak, and the second team is low on FSTs and AoE attacks. To make Rune Master more useful, I'd like to see her with some additional ST stat magic. For example, replace level 2 spells with Anti-Magic, Half Vanish and two other spells, maybe Demon Breath and something.

I haven't seen much love for Grand Divina, either. Can anyone recommend a useful party with her?

Praetarius5018, on 21 September 2015 - 11:07 AM, said:

1) is a pretty solid party, though could be physically stronger, and their elemental sniping capabilities are limited. Replacing Warrior Monk with Magus will get you the same stat-ups, but more devastating spells. A team of Magus, Bishop and Dragon Master is actually very similar to 3), except it also has Anti-Magic and more reliable stat-downs. Team 2) sounds physically strong, and the combo of stat-ups, stat-downs, Aura Wave and Duelist's Eruption Sword can be deadly. If there's something to improve, your offensive elemental magic is very limited.

Sefie1999AD, on 22 September 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

Yea we have different play styles lol I can try to do one for GD, but it may not sync with how you play.

Grand Divina, Dragon Master, Sword Master

Pros - Healing/AOE LV. 1 Elemental Magic for all 6 elements, All debuffs, All elemental sabers, Anti Magic, AOE Sleep, AOE Poison, Speed Up, Transshape, Lunatic. Overall, Duran and Lise are good attackers. Sword Master has a FST, which is pretty strong. DM does not have a FST, which is unfortunate, but she does have a Lv. 2 FST. GD can either deal elemental damage <even lvl 1 spells can do a respectable amount when her INT is jacked> or she can heal and provide support with Transshape. Lunatic from DM compliments GD's ability to hit AOE. There is also poison and sleep for crowd control.

Cons – missing 3/4 buffs, lack of FSTs, no aura wave to help exploit Duran's LV 3 Tech, Energy Ball is self target only

Overall a pretty good team.

Grand Divina, Necromancer, Wanderer

Pros = Black Curse, Lv. 2 elemental sniping, Lv. 1 AOE magic, Half Vanish, Dark Saber, Anti-Magic, Some Lv. 2 AOE magic <Black Rain Road>, Healing, Anti-Magic, almost all utility spells including AOE Sleep, Body Change, Poison, Power Down*, Mind Up, Speed Up.

Cons = All 3 are casters, so they'll be very vulnerable when casting unless Hawk puts everything to sleep with Sleep Flower, but at higher levels that may prove to be an annoyance. Switching in and out of menus consistently may be annoying. Lack of physical/tech damage, lack of FSTs.

Grand Divina, Duelist, Night Blade <I actually want to try this Party>

Pros = Healing, Lv. 1 Magic for all 6 spells, All Debuffs, Poison, Silence, Deadly Weapon, Transshape, Aura Wave <Duran only>, 6/8 elemental sabers, Sleep Flower. Both Night Blade and Duelist have great FST Techs and GD can forgo elemental damage and focus on healing/support.

Cons = No buffing except Speed Up, no Aura Wave to exploit Hawk's FST.

Comment: One thing I noticed with the final classes is that they were specifically designed to only do one or two things, so they have skill sets directed towards that role. As a result, it makes it impossible for there to be many parties that has all buffs/debuffs/status skills/elemental sabers/anti magic/elemental magic etc. Personally, I like this because it adds to the challenge and makes certain characters work better together than others. It forces the player to pick what is most important and to forgo the other benefits.

I've beaten the game 4 times with various party combinations and the only thing that has been a constant has been selecting characters either will buffs OR debuffs and an anti-magic user because of how useful it is in the game.

This post has been edited by mr_smartiepant: 24 September 2015 - 06:36 AM

Sefie1999AD, on 22 September 2015 - 12:25 PM, said:

I'd have to disagree with you on this, as the Runemaster really needs those AoE spells for non boss fights. RM!Angela's ability to effortlessly clear rooms filled with enemies weak to one of the four cardinal elements is really useful. Additionally thanks to the Sabers, if push comes to shove and she has to fight things in melee, Angela won't be a complete sitting duck in that department.

Its definitely a play style thing on your part as she's quite devastating with the proper support.

Thanks for your team suggestions! I'll analyze them briefly.

mr_smartiepant, on 22 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

This is otherwise a good party, but I'd like to play more defensively and have Protect Up, and this team lacks Mind Up for boosting Angela. I'd probably make Lise a Star Lancer instead, and since SL doesn't have Anti-Magic, I'd make Duran a Duelist. Then you'd have all stat-ups, Aura Wave (though both SL and Duelist have it), Energy Ball, Transshape and Anti-Magic. No stat-downs, though, and no Saint and Moon Sabers, or Lunatic.

mr_smartiepant, on 22 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Did you mean Evil Shaman, as Necromancer doesn't have Demon Breath and Ghost Road? This team sounds physically too fragile to my tastes. No access to Power Up or Protect Down (assuming you meant ES) means physical enemies will take a while to beat. I'd replace Wanderer with either Light Lise: Vanadis for FST, or Star Lancer for Aura Wave and higher attack power.

mr_smartiepant, on 22 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

See my comments for your Grand Divina, Swordmaster, Dragon Master team.

mr_smartiepant, on 22 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

It was that way in the original game too. You can't get everything, but you can set certain requirements for teams (Heal Light, Anti-Magic and some form of stat magic are practically required to beat the game). What is different from the vanilla game is that it is no longer cost effective to replace certain skills with Byzel items. Getting some Byzel items for boss fights is useful, but I wouldn't spend them on normal battles.

mr_smartiepant, on 22 September 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

I'll have to see which buffs or debuffs are absolutely necessary. In my previous game of Rogue, God Hand and Archmage, bosses like Bigieu and Black Rabite kept destroying my characters until I used Bulette's Scales (Protect Up) on them. Casting Power Down on the bosses didn't help enough. Speed Up/Down is great for hitting enemies with high evade, is great for defensive purposes when you want to increase your own evade, and it's handy how it shortens cast times. Power Up and Protect Down make battles shorter, but I'm not sure whether they're absolutely necessary. Mind Up/Down is a must against some bosses, but you can probably survive for most of the game without it (I rarely used Mind Down outside boss fights with Rogue, God Hand and Archmage).

Sefie1999AD, on 24 September 2015 - 04:22 AM, said:

You can replace mind up with the Fireblaze pendant + give Angela a Whitestone Ring to make Healing MT. This gives her permanent magic attack up. Also Lise's mind down essentially gives the effect of Mind Up it just does it by lowering the magic defense of the enemy. Thus, you can essentially get double magic attack up for Angela.

My approach is looking at what can practically be replaced, that's why I suggested DM and not one of Lise's Light paths. You can purchase stat up items, but not stat down, which is why I figure Dark Lise can't be replaced. We just have different play styles, so my suggestions are based off what I would want in a party.

As for Necromancer/ES mix up . . . I probably meant Necromancer. It was late when I posted, so I must have looked at the wrong skill chart. I'll fix it now.

I've been trying to make teams based on the plot pairs such as Angela/Duran/Filler or Hawk/Lise/Filler for this run but I'm having some problems. What are some teams that you'd recommend?

Ardhanari, on 24 September 2015 - 05:43 PM, said:

Oh I love doing that too. It can be a bit of a challenge with the new tweaks.

I think the most rounded suggestion would be:

Nightblade <or Rogue>/Vanadis/Arch Mage <or Duelist> <or Evil Shaman>

You have all Buffs/Debuffs/Anti-Magic Lise as a healer. Nightblade comes with poison/blow needles/deadly weapon/black rain. Arch Mage is a nice compliment with her AOE elemental magic, anti-magic, and body change skills. She also had 2 debuffs and a Lv. 3 magic attack. Additionally, both Lise/Hawke have FTSs; however, no aura wave to exploit them.

If you swap out Arch Mage for Duelist you get a more physical oriented team. Instead of elemental nukes you gets swords + aura wave to exploit Hawke/Duran's FSTs. If you want elemental nukes you'll need to rely on the Jutsus.

If you swap our AM for Evil Shaman you lose Lv. 2 AOEs, but you get elemental sniping and AOE Mind Down via Demon Breath. Greater Demon is a great almost Lv. 3 spell for sniping without needing to worry about elemental defenses.

If you swap out NB for Rogue you still get to keep all debuffs. Hawke just turns into a stronger elemental sniping physical character. He does gain AOE Sleep and Body Change in addition to a tree nuke, but you'll also lose blow needles and deadly weapon.

Wanderer/Vanadis/Necromancer

You gain Anti-Magic, all buffs, Black Curse and two Half Vanish users. Aura Wave can exploit the Vanadis' FST. You still have the ability to elemental snipe, just fewer AOEs. As an added bonus there is also Dark Saber.

What do you guys think about this party? Paladin, God Hand, and Fenrir Knight.

Basically a very sturdy physical team with the debuffs, power and def up, magic shield and moon saber. It also has Aura wave which seems very good in this team, and with 2 healers I think it's going to be very good at not dying. Oh and it has anti magic too, I heard that's useful.

I haven't played this patch in a long time though so I'm not sure, does a full physical or a full magical team even work or do you need a balance between the two?

Sikker, on 25 September 2015 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'd also suggest considering the following:

Paladin/Star Lancer/Rogue or Nightblade if you want more status effects.

Lise and Hawk work really well together. You lose your off healer, but you gain buffs plus Aura Wave and Energy Ball. Fenrir Knight isn't a bad choice, but taking Rogue will give you elemental sniping or taking Nightblade will give you Poison and Silence.

Or if you don't mind losing your off heal, I'd suggest turning Kevin into a Death Hand for the extra damage. He also bring Aura Wave to fill up his tech bar quicker. God Hand is good, but you might suffer in terms of physical damage since Kevin's dark classes are stronger and have FSTs. Also it would reduce some redundancy you have with some of the Paladin's skills and instead give you elemental sabers since your party lacks elemental damage.

mr_smartiepant, on 26 September 2015 - 05:06 AM, said:

paladin/nightblade/starlancer seems very similar to alot of teams I've used in the original game. I wanted to try something new and take advantage of the buffs on other characters in this patch.

Reason why I choose god hand over death hand is the power up. isn't that better then the elemental and dark sabers?