Insane Difficulty: Garbage Self-Referential, Immature, Inconsistent writing. - Insane Difficulty

I'll be honest, I'm not going to read anything more than the OP in this thread, because really what follows such a horrendous post speaks for itself, but that's all I need.

Read the forum rules. They're there for a reason, and perhaps they would have prevented this landfill of a thread from ever being posted if you could have controlled yourself long enough to read them before posting.

Be respectful.

This is not respectful. A critique is one thing, but this is not a critique. This is a diatribe. I understand that you're passionate, but I'd be lying to you if I said I cared. If you cannot care enough to be respectful, why should we care enough to tolerate you in the first place?

We are not obligated to uphold your notion of free speech here. If you come in and do nothing but blast -- on your first post, no less -- then you're really not relevant enough to be taken seriously.

Make no mistake: I have no qualms about banning people who cannot offer their opinions in a respectful manner. Especially when it's some newbie blasting a veteran member for really no reason at all on their first post.

Consider this your first and final warning.

Sorry, but it was well-deserved. Just as the scolding you just gave me may also have been. Warning noted.

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Well, technically... http://www.insanedif...post__p__146431

Ex-modder, on 13 March 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

I disagree, and in your position that carries far more weight than a simple opinion. You would be wise to drop this, and quickly.

Ex-modder, on 13 March 2017 - 02:19 PM, said:

Details.

Advent, on 13 March 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

Given this threat:

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I'm not going to argue with you on the matter. Not that I place a great deal of value in my membership but there may be other hack creators deserving of praise as with FF7HT, and they should get it.

All right folks, show's over. Any feedback regarding the script or anything else about the mod goes in the usual place. If you're actually interested in doing your own translation, hit me up and I'll give you what you need to get started.

Not going to lock this trainwreck since Miacis and Auguestien are actually having a civil conversation.

I want to take a minute to just recognize Miacis. There are many ways one can give criticism. This thread has shining examples of the right way, and the wrong way.

Ex-modder did it the wrong way.

Miacis, however, did it the right way. His post on the first page is a shining example of how to be respectfully critical of another's work.

If you are respectfully critical, we might tell you we disagree, we might voice our opinion against you, but we will respect your opinion because it was voiced in a respectful manner. We are not in the habit of banning people with dissenting opinions, just those that cannot voice them in a polite, respectful manner. This guy was cancer, so, as all cancer should be in a perfect world, he was cut out before his toxicity infected the whole.

Thank you, Miacis, for illustrating the right way to offer criticism. Kudos to you, man.

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Reiker, on 13 March 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

I found that, after playing the entirety of the mod, many of the changes that were not references, or bits that I found amusing (and I apologize because I should have been more clear about that when I wrote what I did regarding it), were rather close to a translators efforts, which can be found here. So, yes, I really do believe that.

As for other concerns with dialogue in the game being too left field, yes Miacis has made well-illustrated points that I could also agree with. Perhaps down the line from here and in a future version, we can add, change, or remove aspects of it as BTB or Synchsi desires and agrees with for their work.

If not, well, I wouldn't personally mind snapping into a Slim Jim if we still had them in Narshe Canada.

Honestly, I kinda started tuning him out when it became clear he just wanted the original script in full. Which, I mean, it sure is a valid opinion, but it wasn't bringing much to the discussion.
It's weird too, because on the first page he had started to relent a bit, but went back in full force when more people started talking about the script's flaws, so I do feel a bit responsible for that... Anyways, what I wanted to put forward was more or less acknowledged, so in the interest of not rambling too much, I'll be a bit more concise. edit: I failed.

Augestein, the strawman comment wasn't much directed at you, actually. More at the variety of posts, even early in the thread, that caricatured (I guess it's a better word than strawmanned for this) the actual grievances just to tell the guy to piss off ya bloody wanker. Then again, I was also getting a bit stressed out by a long day, so apologies if I was too dismissive.

Still, from what I gather, you seem to not mind issues that do not concern your main source of attraction to a mod. You call BNW a gameplay mod... but I don't. I cannot discount this as a gameplay mod when so much attention and work was put into the script –and you could say was also advertised as one of the main changes. From the intro of the ReadMe, to the ID download page, to even Mishrak's beginner's FAQ, the script changes are mentioned as a rather important part of the mod's experience... And sometimes it feels a bit like the community has forgotten that.

Sources, emphasis mine:

And none of these sound to me like the mod is aiming for "crazy and wacky dialogue", done just for the fun of it, either.

New Threat is a gameplay mod with absolutely minimal script changes compared to BNW, and SC nails almost all of them. Brave New World has a lot of script revisions, and yet the quality joyfully rollercoasters. This is why people here feel strongly about the script of this gameplay mod. Because it's really a gameplay/script mod.

Digression:

Lockirby2, on 12 March 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

Like, these quotes in particular are just really weird to me, sorry Lockirby. The script is one of the 3 core changes mentioned in the ReadMe's intro. One third of the UnlockMe (10 000 words...) is occupied by script discussion, and some of it (characterization changes, mostly) was initially in the ReadMe, before it was filed away into the "interesting, but ignoring it won't hamper your enjoyment" file. Like, how much more text does the documentation need before the script is considered a significant part of this mod...?

***Localization Corner because I'm a loca nerd***

Miacis is right in the sense that the script is a significant part of the mod. I think the point that everyone else is trying to make (regardless of how correct it is - I won't argue one way or the other) is that it should be easy to look past dialogue you don't like provided that you think the game itself is fun.

In my defense (and this is something I mention in the developer's commentary), the only dialogue that we make truly ridiculous (for the most part) is the dialogue that already was, like pretty much anything Ultros says. Yeah, there's references here and there and everywhere, but nine out of ten at them will fly over the head of anyone who doesn't get them and a lot of them you really have to go out of your way to see. The only lines that I personally felt were jarring enough to take you out of the moment are the ones that have since been changed.

And if you disagree with that, that's fine. There's not an update gone by where I don't make at least some kind of dialogue revision, so if there's a very specific example of something you'd like to see changed, let me know and I'll consider it. If your very specific example is "the whole damn thing", then it's probably not going to happen unless someone actually wants to sit down and do another translation.

Just to add a level of support to Miacis' point about the script being an important part of BNW. It really is important. So valid criticism is equally important and welcome. This is an excellent discussion to have when its done in a positive and constructive way.

Out of curiosity, is it possible to edit item names and descriptions with standard tools? That's one of the places where I gripe about the quality of the text, so I could maybe see my way to trying my hand at it.

Bauglir, on 13 March 2017 - 06:09 PM, said:

Yup. FF3USME. Go nuts.

Hooray! One day soonish, I, too, will know the pain of trying to fit useful information into the limited description banks.

I've actually worked through a bit of an experimental "BNW Arranged" thing a couple months ago, trying to implement... pretty much all the community ideas I could find in these two threads (1 & 2), to see what would stick. It was abandonned when I realized too late that Rage tweaking wasn't as straightforward as I assumed, but pretty much the first thing I did was go over the entirety of the item/spell list to gain space while adding needed information.

I'll see if I can document what I came up with.

And I thought Discord was sometimes too crowded.......................

Regarding this whole mess: I really don't care about plot since FFs are generally too cliche at this point of my life, but I sure appreciate the new focus BTB gave to it's script (Celes it's basically the women we all need in this kind of games) and a few jokes did gave me a laugh ot two. I still amazed that at this point, people like this can find his way into ID (not my first time seeing this, but still)

@ Miacis: That's fine. And yeah, if that really is their intent, then yeah, I suppose it IS both. I honestly don't remember that part in the readme from the older versions. I remember the doc going on about all of the gameplay changes such as the genji glove glitches etc. To be honest, when I was asking, THIS is the sort of answer I was looking for. Not extra examples. This is a definitive answer.

Edit:

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However, I will state that it also doesn't mention much else about the story after this initial expression. If I were a grade school teacher I'd dock off points for mentioning an idea but not saying much about it afterward. So LockKirby isn't wrong here. It's mentioned in passing. And it's mentioned as the "third half" which... While dubious math at its finest could also mean that it's the "extra" on there.

If it's really that much of an issue, I don't even mind helping to clean up the text at any rate. Most noticeably the descriptions of weapons-- not only would I find that probably the most vital aspect, but that's the place where I honestly remember most of the references.

Rage tweaking from what I remember (which is very little from FFVI hacking) was bizarre and I know that quite a few modders just opt out of even doing ANYTHING with rage tbh.

My point about localization was this: BNW is more like a localization for a group of fans of the game. Hence the references etc. As they'd be more fitting to send to a target audience: a bunch of people that are more "nerdy" so to speak in the regards that they'd even love a game so much that they'd bother either downloading a ROM or ripping a ROM and then applying a patch to the game. Localization teams sometimes do take creative liberties. A perfect example: Rechetear the "Capitalism Ho!" Is a creative liberty crafted from the localization team. In the Japanese version it was literally variants of the phrase "let's go." Treehouse, the localization team, has some infamy for instance, many siting this example for taking creative liberties at moments with scenes: their most recent one? This:



I think you misunderstood my point about localization in this case. The target audience that was there were the modders and people that might play them. Maybe it was a miss overall for most, but there was still a target in mind. Using the base game as it's foundation. Because it still borrows some of the Japanese elements as well.

Miacis, on 13 March 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

I said that the script was barely mentioned in the ReadMe because that's what Ex-Modder said in his post just before mine. Shoulda fact checked that instead of taking his word for it. XD Several other things I said were based on that as well.

Still though, comedy works in mysterious ways.

For example, I can't for the life of me find any aspect of Relm funny(despite finding other examples of precocious children hilarious), but for some reason I always crack up at the soldiers progressively directing you to general Leo before going to Thamasa and the one right next to him just goes "General Leo is right here".

"This is a long elevator" gets me every time.