Final Fantasy X - Punishment v2.6 - Insane Difficulty

Final Fantasy X - Punishment v2.6

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#21 Advent

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08 February 2013 - 07:15 AM

Foyboy, on 08 February 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

It is definitely OP, but pretty much everything Rikku does is OP. There's a reason you can quite easily beat the game with just her alone, without ever touching the sphere grid.

I never found Rikku to be terribly OP at all, sans when I went into Yuna's part of the Sphere Grid and had Reflect on her when I fought Seymour on the Highbridge. >.>

This is probably a case of Vanilla-FFT syndrome; the game being easy to the point that you don't have to use everything to your advantage. I never really tried to use Rikku too much honestly. Evade and Counter I never bothered trying to get until later, but now that I think about it, I don't doubt that it's as OP as you say. :lol:

#22 Foyboy

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08 February 2013 - 07:26 AM

Rikku is easily the most OP character in any FF game that I've ever played. Think about it for a second; it's possible (and not all that difficult if you know what you're doing) to beat the game solo, without ever leveling up. Is there anything like that in any other FF?

I do agree it's a case of what you call Vanilla-FFT syndrome. Most people (myself included) don't bother to use Rikku on a first playthrough because she does take a little work to set up and starts out so weak (stat-wise). Add in not really knowing the Mix combinations, and she's too much trouble when there are far easier strategies: Aeon overdrive spam, a little bit of grinding, just not sucking.

The problem is, fixing Rikku is akin to fixing Cards in FF8. It would be a massive endeavor to balance Rikku (and Use in general). Fixing E&C should be quite easy, and trust me it is as OP as I say - evading ANY single character attack that is evadable, which is most non-boss attacks in the game.

#23 Advent

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08 February 2013 - 07:51 AM

Foyboy, on 08 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I do agree it's a case of what you call Vanilla-FFT syndrome. Most people (myself included) don't bother to use Rikku on a first playthrough because she does take a little work to set up and starts out so weak (stat-wise). Add in not really knowing the Mix combinations, and she's too much trouble when there are far easier strategies: Aeon overdrive spam, a little bit of grinding, just not sucking.

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. I didn't bother with Mix combinations because, as you said, it's too much trouble. :lol:

Foyboy, on 08 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The problem is, fixing Rikku is akin to fixing Cards in FF8. It would be a massive endeavor to balance Rikku (and Use in general). Fixing E&C should be quite easy, and trust me it is as OP as I say - evading ANY single character attack that is evadable, which is most non-boss attacks in the game.

Oh, I don't doubt E&C at all; I had it on just about every weapon for my melee characters end-game. :lol:

#24 Caoimhin

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08 February 2013 - 07:51 PM

Foyboy, on 08 February 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

I have yet to play this rebalance, so I speak only from my experience with vanilla and its been a good 5 years since I last played the game.
It seems to me Rikku's largest balance problem is the proliferation of Use items. Making them significantly rarer and perhaps simply eliminating certain Mix combinations altogether (I didn't use Mix much because I felt so bad abusing it). I sometimes went out of my way to just find fun ways of killing fiends, taking my time for the hell of it.

I havn't heard any mention of Lulu yet but one thing that always bugged me was her Overdrive. Quite frankly it was dull and boring. Kimahri's overdrive needs only a little tweaking, Jump and Seed Cannon should be made more viable late game. Does Seed Cannon even do more damage to flying enemies? It seems like it should get a bonus similar to how Wakka is supposedly best at dealing with them. Although, tbh I think that has more to do with his stats and that was just fluff given by Lulu.

I think one of the issues that needs to be addressed is the whole Overkill thing. I mean its nice, but should harder to achieve. Once you can break the damage limit on a few characters the game becomes really trivial. I fought through the first playthrough with NO Celestial Weapons and with my second full completion I had three. Jecht was a MONSTER to deal with the first time through.
I'd personally, and I know this may found ridiculous, remove the ability to break the limit altogether and replace that weapon ability slot with something new. If anyone, only Auron should have that ability, with Lulu also sharing it. That would do two things, one make the ability more a utility (on a character that can make full use of it no less) and also allow Lulu to actually be effective when compared to the rest of them.
Tidus I could see have the full Triple Overdrive thing going on, it would be within his character to just want to get on with it. The rest of the crew, not so much, with the exception of Rikku. But Mix is already painfully OP.

Wakka has one of the easier, along with Yuna, to obtain a Celestial Weapon and then charge it. Which actually brings me to another issue that I seem to recollect, the One MP Cost ability. Unlike the Gold Hairpin or other such items in Final Fantasy, the Celestial Weapons have no downsides. The Gold Hairpin, while it halves MP cost, typically does not raise any stats or confers any great bonuses if it does. Lulu's Onion Knight on the other hand can be a pain to fully charge, so I can see it being a reasonable reward. After all, Yuna has other options at her disposable. I think Nirvana could perhaps simply have Half MP instead and still be useful. Of course this would require some editing of weapon customization to make it special.

These are only some of my thoughts on things that could be improved in the game itself, things that always bugged me. As for E&C keep it on Tidus's CW and just make it unique. Perhaps even give him and Rikku First Strike in place of Break Dmg Limit. I understand the rationale behind Auron having it, hes a veteran warrior, he is prepared. If it is possible to give the CW COMPLETELY unique abilities to complement the original character's skill sets, all the better.

#25 Foyboy

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08 February 2013 - 08:25 PM

Normally I'd wait to post everything at once, but this seems like a pretty big and obvious bug: I just encountered a Bunyip with 12320 HP.

#26 Advent

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08 February 2013 - 08:46 PM

Caoimhin, on 08 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

I disagree with this slightly, if only because I'm adamantly against things being outright removed (unless they're redundant). Taking away a viable -- if overpowered -- tool just doesn't sit right with me, when instead it could just be adjusted to the point where it's not game-breaking.

Caoimhin, on 08 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

I'd personally, and I know this may found ridiculous, remove the ability to break the limit altogether and replace that weapon ability slot with something new. If anyone, only Auron should have that ability, with Lulu also sharing it. That would do two things, one make the ability more a utility (on a character that can make full use of it no less) and also allow Lulu to actually be effective when compared to the rest of them.

I will find you, and I will murder you in your sleep if this becomes reality. :fuck:

I can't remember who it was -- I think it was Foyboy -- but someone proposed several changes to the sphere grid so that you couldn't massively overpower someone (Yuna doing 99,999 damage with a physical attack), that's something I think would be great, and a far better fix than limiting Break Damage Limit to a few characters.

Caoimhin, on 08 February 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Wakka has one of the easier, along with Yuna, to obtain a Celestial Weapon and then charge it. Which actually brings me to another issue that I seem to recollect, the One MP Cost ability. Unlike the Gold Hairpin or other such items in Final Fantasy, the Celestial Weapons have no downsides. The Gold Hairpin, while it halves MP cost, typically does not raise any stats or confers any great bonuses if it does. Lulu's Onion Knight on the other hand can be a pain to fully charge, so I can see it being a reasonable reward. After all, Yuna has other options at her disposable. I think Nirvana could perhaps simply have Half MP instead and still be useful. Of course this would require some editing of weapon customization to make it special.

I like One MP Cost, but I wouldn't be partiularly opposed to seeing it changed to Half MP; I just like the thought of having drawn out battles. I don't know what the limit is for an enemy's HP to be set to, but if possible I'd like it if post-game stuff (Maybe turn the Omega Ruins into a much harder dungeon, similar to Deep Dungeon, and make the Monster Arena harder maybe) had long drawn out battles. :gusta:

#27 Foyboy

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08 February 2013 - 09:04 PM

I didn't suggest changing the sphere grid. The suggestion to make stat spheres only give +1 wouldn't really change much, since the sphere grid is still large enough to nearly max the necessary stats. The SG already contains enough agility to effectively max it at 170. It contains more than enough HP (~19k). If you ignore Magic (because it's useless), Accuracy (because it's useless), Luck (because fuck Luck), and Evasion (because it's useless due to E&C), then using only +1 stat spheres and the natural SG, you can hit 255 Str, 9999 HP, 999 MP, 170 Agil (effective max), and about 230 Def + Mdef. Essentially maxed stats.

IF I was to suggest a change to the SG (which I really wouldn't), it would be to confine everyone to their own sections. Remove Lvl 4 key spheres from the game and edit the locks that separate grids into lvl 4 locks. Remove friend and teleport spheres. Not sure how to handle Kimahri.

#28 Advent

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08 February 2013 - 09:26 PM

Ah. I wonder if there's a way to put seperate caps for everyone..

#29 Caoimhin

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08 February 2013 - 11:18 PM

Advent, on 08 February 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

I am opposed to this for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is because that would essentially pigeon-hole you into using them, and I personally detest almost everything about Lulu, not the least of which is her asinine, bullshit sigil in the Thunder Plains.

I can't remember who it was -- I think it was Foyboy -- but someone proposed several changes to the sphere grid so that you couldn't massively overpower someone (Yuna doing 99,999 damage with a physical attack), that's something I think would be great, and a far better fix than limiting Break Damage Limit to a few characters.

I like One MP Cost, but I wouldn't be partiularly opposed to seeing it changed to Half MP; I just like the thought of having drawn out battles. I don't know what the limit is for an enemy's HP to be set to, but if possible I'd like it if post-game stuff (Maybe turn the Omega Ruins into a much harder dungeon, similar to Deep Dungeon, and make the Monster Arena harder maybe) had long drawn out battles. :gusta:

Advent, on 08 February 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Ah. I wonder if there's a way to put seperate caps for everyone..

Well when I said remove some of the Mixes, I meant the redundant ones. Requiring more specific ingredients for each and perhaps removing some of the tiered ones, "XYZ does even more damage than the same typed TUV!" Seeing each Mix stand alone and have a use, with maybe only a couple non-elemental damaging ones. I personally was never fond of the "only worthwhile mix" type of thing. Clusterbomb, Potato Masher, and Tallboy ALL do the same amount of damage to all enemies. Hazardous Shell and Calamity Bomb both have the same effect but one hits for one round more. Its a silly incremental effect, we already have that in spells with the Cure and Elemental spells. (Mix certainly has more interesting elemental based concoctions with added effects, the extra damage is just icing on the cake) You might as well drop Hazardous Shell. It also does a dizzying array of status effects. You could drop two of them easily, even better, keep BOTH Mixes give two of the four to 1 and the ones left over to the other. Poison and Sleep for HS and Silence and Darkness for CB. There is a kind of logic to that example. Also Freedom X... "No MP Cost for all party members." I suppose it could be easily ignored, I mean its not like its EASY to Mix. Besides anyone taking their time on this enjoy a challenge, so this kind of thing isn't worth taking the time to remove. Its good for experimentation purposes if a part of the mod really needs some tweaking.

One thing that I did forget about Mix was that it was unaffected by Break Dmg Lmt. This is actually a good thing, it effectively nerfs it.

I like the idea of separate caps, I'd rather not everyone be able to do 99,999 damage with ANY kind of attack endgame. Maybe just something as simple as Lulu and possibly Yuna being able to reach it with magical attacks, but only maxing at like 29,999 with Physical if you really want to stretch it. The point is, why have characters with separate skill sets if they all end up playing the same roles and spamming the same things in the end? I know that what was mentioned was for other stats as well, but I really am spending WAY too much time on this already. :shocked:

As far as Physical attacks are concerned with the Physical characters I could easily see Wakka and Kamahri as sharing a max damage output Physically. However if gained from the Sphere Grid through raw stats Kamahri has the potential to be less potent than Wakka Physically, but stronger Magically. Being a kind of hybrid Blue/Red Mage, lets face it, he is only superficially a Dragoon with token "cameo" abilities associated with said class.
Rikku and Tidus, whom I see sharing similar stats, Rikku being able to max Agility and Tidus being somewhere within the range of Strength and Agility as Kimahri or Wakka (with a penchant toward Agility and higher base magic than Wakka but lower than Kamahri's). Ultimately I see Auron as being a kind of lone wolf as far as stats are concerned, high Strength, high HP as he is in the vanilla game and the distinction of being the only character to hit for the full 99,999 Physical damage. The rest capping at something like 69,999 or 79,999 on the high-end of the spectrum. Ideally it would be nice for Rikku to be in her own category above Luna and Lulu and below the rest, because I still see her as being a utility type. But that would simply be getting too tailor made for something as universal as breaking the Dmg Limit.

A good handicap for Auron could be similar to Aura's solution for Sabin, pitiful defenses. If I recall Auron had bad Magic Def, but I don't remember about Def. After thinking on it, I actually see a similarity in the stats of Auron in Cyan... Perhaps Auron could have low Agility but high Luck for evasive purposes?

As for the sigil in the Thunder Plains, yep. Her character was pretty much doomed to be relegated to the backseat of my party just for that.

This post has been edited by Caoimhin: 08 February 2013 - 11:30 PM

#30 Foyboy

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08 February 2013 - 11:56 PM

Kilika to Guadosalam:

Spoiler

General notes: Lord Ochu, Chocobo Eater, and Extractor all need buffs. Oblitz would be a great battle without the crane. Bunyip's HP is glitched.

#31 Caoimhin

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09 February 2013 - 05:14 AM

Foyboy, on 08 February 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

Kilika to Guadosalam:

Spoiler

General notes: Lord Ochu, Chocobo Eater, and Extractor all need buffs. Oblitz would be a great battle without the crane. Bunyip's HP is glitched.

Hmm, after reading this it really puts some things in perspective. Buffing the enemies does ALOT for this game. Thats pretty cool how effective that is.