[thzfunnymzn]

http://pastebin.com/yLvNP7Vy

A quick reference text for the various builds. Contains "all" builds for each character (sans Umaro & Gogo), including a name, "standard" ELs, and a quick paragraph explaining the build (including alternate ELs).

Has a few judgement calls on the optimization of some builds, but said judgements should reflect the general community consensus. Not that optimization is at all required to beat BNW, even without power levelling; enjoy your favorite build.

Gogo's builds are missing, as stated above. Perhaps a future text will have him & Umaro. (Not that Umaro has any builds.)

LAST UPDATE: 01/29/2017

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 09 March 2017 - 08:33 PM

[Dr. Letha]

There are two builds in BNW; 25 Terrato Sabin, and everything else.

[thzfunnymzn]

Lol. Sadly, you're kinda right. Mass +60 HP espers is just too good. Sabin esp. can get away with it. Didn't list it though, and I'm not sure I will.

[thzfunnymzn]

Guess it's kinda selfish, but "Requesting Sticky." Guide is useless if no one sees it.

[thzfunnymzn]

Updated. Referenced 25 Terrato Sabin, modified Terra's Omega build, couple small edits elsewhere. Still contains judgment calls on builds. I've tried to keep said judgment calls close to community consensus, but call me out if otherwise.

[theonyxphoenix]

Would you be able to include the total bonuses acquired with each build...i.e. Gau Fenrir X/Phantom Y (+A Speed, +B Stamina)

[thzfunnymzn]

I can go add that in, sure.

[thzfunnymzn]

Done.

Looking at the stats caused me to do a very minor edit to Sage Terra, Omega Terra, & Regen Mage Relm.

Enjoy!

Also, if the formatting is a problem, please tell me.

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 26 July 2016 - 03:52 PM

[thzfunnymzn]

Has anyone played Kirin + Bismark on Cyan before? How was it? Did her perform well? Underperform? Overperform? What order did you build it in? In which version of BNW did you play said build?

***

I'm thinking of changing vig Cyan's build to:

Samurai

WoB: 6 Kirin, 4 Bismark
WoR: 6 Kirin, 10 Bismark, 4 Alexander

I'm stopping complaining about vig Cyan's late-blooming nature & obssessively focusing on "perfect endgame" stats, and making a realistic game-long build. (Trades 6 Vigor for 6 Stamina over what I'd consider an "ideal" vig Cyan, big whoop). Vigor is unsalvagable in the WoB without changes to the game, but this build at least gives Cyan some actual HP for the mid-WoR, so that he's more workable without hasting towards Wrexsoul. (Run-on sentence, I failed Engrish). I'm predicting he's still only average, albeit more usable, but I've never played Kirin + Bismark, so I need help.

EDIT: Also, Mish is right: stam Sabin should be 10 Stray, 10 Terrarto. Chatroom gave a "meh" response to the posted Cyan build, but I'll leave this post for a bit to see if anyone's tried this specifically.

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 29 July 2016 - 01:14 PM

[thzfunnymzn]

Edited stam Sabin & hyb Sabin. hyb Sabin has HP now!! No, seriously, use hyb Sabin, he's awesome now. Oh, and stam Sabin has 10 Terrato (per Mish). I'm interested to hear how these two compare. Their stats are close.

Also, got an account, so now I shouldn't be making a new paste each time. >_>

I'm not gonna change vig Cyan. I detest it, but he's an endgame-only build, and the guide should reflect that mindset. : (

[ronlyn]

thzfunnymzn, on 05 August 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

seriously, use hyb Sabin, he's awesome now

I KNOW RIGHT?!?!?!?!?!

Going into the topic: His reliance on weaknesses its bigger than other builds, especially when tackle places like Phoenix cave and Narshe's mines. Ohh and one last bit: ALWAYS get Golem EL first on WoB: Stamina only shines after Mantra/chakra are obtain

[thzfunnymzn]

You're right on Mantra & Chakra. Edited hyb Sabin for that. Left it at 8:8:4 Golem:Stray:Terrato, b/c it's simple & easy to remember, despite getting 2 Stray in WoB (lul). I imagine most people won't strictly follow that, hence the line to adjust Golem & Stray ELs as desired.

No, seriously, good build. I didn't think much of it at first, until "wait, hurp, of course I can give hyb Sabin Terrato ELs." Now, I want to try it out. (I also have even less respect for stam Sabin now).

[thzfunnymzn]

Re-requesting sticky. Even though it's 1.7, it's still relevant; doesn't look like 1.8 changed things that much. I'll eventually review it after getting a handle on 1.8's new esper relics.

Considering adding a personal ranking (3/5, etc.) to each build, but am unsure about how the community would perceive such rankings in an otherwise fairly objective guide. Minorly concerned about bloat, as it's supposed to be a quick reference guide.

[Synchysi]

thzfunnymzn, on 24 January 2017 - 04:25 PM, said:

Re-requesting sticky. Even though it's 1.7, it's still relevant; doesn't look like 1.8 changed things that much. I'll eventually review it after getting a handle on 1.8's new esper relics.

Done.

Quote

Considering adding a personal ranking (3/5, etc.) to each build, but am unsure about how the community would perceive such rankings in an otherwise fairly objective guide. Minorly concerned about bloat, as it's supposed to be a quick reference guide.

Just make it known that it's a personal ranking and not to be taken as gospel if you really want to rank them. You could also ask for community ratings to build a sort of consensus.

Though that gets tricky because the effectiveness of a lot of builds depends upon who else is in the party. It may be difficult to rank some builds in a vacuum.

[thzfunnymzn]

Thanks.

Community ratings is good idea. Might also reveal if some builds are "love or hate" or stuff like that. Requires a lot of people's input giving each build a score out of 5 though.

Party synergy is a thing. What springs to my mind is stam Sabin: he's solid if the other 3 party members are heavy MP users, but otherwise, he's mediocre. Mana Battery's more generally useful. Also reminds me of some old theory craft of which builds are most "generally" useful. (Theory there was vig Edgar, mag Celes, and Terra).

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 25 January 2017 - 05:14 PM

[LoveColorMagic]

I'm aware the question was asked months ago but I'll provide thoughts on Kirin + Bismarck Cyan anyways.

version played 1.6.1

Playing casually without a specific plan in mind, ended up with 4 Kirin, 11 Bismarck, and 5 Alexander at EL 20. If I knew enough about save hacking, I would go for 6 Kirin, 2-4 Alexander, rest Bismarck. I favor either 6 or 2 Kirin to have base Stamina at a multiple of 4. Personally find HP to make the biggest difference in WoB survivability though it does provide diminishing returns for each additional HP boost. 300 HP from 6 Kirin, 2 Alexander looks the most pleasing on paper for me though +420 HP pushes him close to the magical 1500 HP at Lv 30. 1500 HP is nice for surviving Meteo from Asura and the first tier of the end boss without relying on dodging.

Went with Kirin ELs first, then Bismarck, fitting in desired Alexander when it becomes available. With the extra durability from Kirin, he was in little danger of dying in the WoB, I find this synergizes well with access to Enpowerer and acting as out of battle medic while still providing some extra oomph for smashing. His survival was key to my AtmaWeapon battle. Extra durability helped him out quite nicely at Ultros 4 and Air Force (though Gau was the real star of that fight).

WoR performance varied. 4 Kirin ELs didn't help him avoid getting splattered by Silver Dragon physicals in the front row. Phoenix cave went OK; don't really remember if I used him. With some Alexander ELs and higher levels, the Bismarck investment made it's showing in Ancient Castle randoms with two handed katana whacks ripping up enemies there. Strong magic is more common in the WoR and Cyan's magic defense is on the lower side so that's something to consider when building him.

[thzfunnymzn]

Thank you for that information, LoveColorMagic.

My takeaway from that is the WoB survivability from a few early Kirin ELs is worth the loss to endgame bulk. Your Cyan's performance in the pre-Alexander part of the WoR doesn't sound any different from how he normally performs. (And you should never rely on Cyan's bulk vs. physicals from the dragons, warring triad, or kefka). Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like his endgame performance was still strong; 7 Alexander also reaches +420 HP, so you only lost 2 Bismark ELs (-4 vigor, not really a big deal).

I feel like I should've seen this a lot earlier. Oh well, w/e. Thanks, LoveColor.

I'll update the build text.

EDIT: Edited.

Samurai Cyan edited as Kirin + Alex + Bismark.
Paladin / Dragoon Edgar edited to include Jumping with Elemental Blades.
Celes' two magic builds consolidated into one.
Celes' stamina build updated as early Siren -> Crusader.
Phantom Celes is disregarded.
Several builds noted as Runic-safe healers. Unsure if this is necessary.

For Celes' stamina build, I figured it was similar to this Kirin-Bismark Cyan. It sacrifices endgame potential for usability early on. It's even more extreme in stam Celes' case. Pure Crusader listed as an option with EL reset, just like pure Terrato on Sabin.

With that, all of Celes' builds are listed as mages. vig Celes is really a Red Mage, and stam Celes is a Siren Celes who transitioned to Crusader later in life.

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 27 January 2017 - 09:29 PM

[Julford]

Quote

Phantom Celes is disregarded.

I've sworn by Phantom Celes for a good long while now, so this is pretty out of nowhere. What exactly is wrong with using Phantom and making Celes a fighter? Her offensive magic is never really affordable until lategame comes around anyway, and Cure2 is a full-party heal in WoB even without any +mag. Meanwhile the added Regen ticks are invaluable early game and remain strong later, and the added vigor means you can use Black Belt without taking as big of a blow to your damage per hit.

I mean if you REALLY want to pigeonhole Celes into a mage role I can't stop you, it's just a bit of a surprise that you erased an existing build and replaced it with something different under the same title. While you're at it though I'll motion to reclassify Locke's vigor build as a red mage since he can still make use of his offensive magic (Paladin's typically use buffs & heals, which Locke has only one of).

(Regardless of the above, you forgot to adjust the WoB stat gains when you changed the ELs for the build)

[thzfunnymzn]

No, your argument is fair enough. I'll hot-fix Phantom as an alternate option for vig Celes. Unless I'm misunderstanding where Phantom goes on Celes.

For naming vig Locke and vig Celes: iunno. I've always seen offensive X-Magic as niche on his vig build, but he's still attacking, healing, & tanking at high speeds. vig Celes, meanwhile, feels like she wants to dip into her offensive magic more often. Not to mention her grey magic selection. But...it sounds like you do the opposite.

Of all the characters, Celes' builds are probably the less clearly delineated. She's got, like, a thousand different options, all fairly minute from each other, but still feeling like they deserve a totally different title.

I could re-name vig Locke as Rogue / Paladin / Red Mage and vig Celes as Paladin / Red Mage. But, at that point, maybe they both need a new name altogether.

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 28 January 2017 - 04:10 PM

[thzfunnymzn]

Right, so, plan:

For Celes, I'm going to re-format her into two builds with three sub-builds a piece. Knight (vig) Celes with Paladin (Ramuh), Dark Knight (Phantom), and Red Mage (Ramuh-Siren-Seraph). Then, Sage (mag) Celes with Magic General (Siren), Sage (Shiva), and Regen Mage (Crusader). Does this sound more appropriate to everyone?

For Locke, maybe re-name his vig build to White Rogue or something? Would rather avoid a triple name of Rogue / Paladin / Red Mage.

EDIT: For that matter, does anyone have a better name for mag Setzer besides "Tank Mage"?

Also, for mag Celes, has anyone done 10 Seraph for the Floating Continent before building magic? If so, how was it? Considering listing it as an option for mag Celes, but want to double check first, instead of just pure spur-of-the-moment-theorycraft.

This post has been edited by thzfunnymzn: 29 January 2017 - 12:22 PM