Insane Difficulty: WOTL Development Discussion - Insane Difficulty

Initial: Haste. If you add a Ninjato like that, Any experienced FFT player will use 5 ninjas on every single battle. Initial: Haste already in 1.3 (Setiemsons) already allows you to control 80% of the battles with it. Have 4 units that can move before the enemy can even think? Well...

At least form my experience in 1.3, the excalibur is a good example of an Initial: Haste weapon that works. Why, because it can't be used with Two Swords, it can't be used with a shield, and it must be used on a really slow class. If you ever add a Ninjato with that, you'll essentially add more speed to a class that is known for its speed. But for a knight or a lancer, it is a lot more on pair. It essentially balances their speed for the beginning of a battle.

Shadow Stitch. Stop proc is stupidly strong. Wield two of those, and you have a 44% of hitting them (if the proc is 25%... if it is 20%, then it's 36%, still pretty good). You'll make Ninjas not only be superior in terms of speed and raw damage, but they'll stop any enemy they want in a 1/3 ratio. Now, what if you used five of them...

Initial: Protect and Initial: Shell ain't so bad. The +MA already isn't too relevant for a ninja, as seen in Spell Edges in 1.3. The +PA could be very strong by itself, but I'm not sure. It could work.

Weapon Break proc. I'm not sure how this would be, it sounds bizarre / niche. Maybe with a low WP it could work well. The thing about it is that Knights don't have much as they are (if you're not modifying them from 1.3's skillset), and Weapon Break, along with Power Ruin and Mind Ruin are the 3 most relevant abilities they have. I'm not sure, but I'm thinking Break Shield would be a bit more varied. *If* you go past the unit's evasion, there's a proc you'll break their basic evasion item. And a Ninjato breaking a shield sounds cool.

Koga and Iga are pretty cool designed items, but they're stupidly strong. If you lowered the damage of their procs by a lot (so they do, 50/100 damage per proc instead of 300 or so), then that'd be fun. I'm not so sure about the status immunities, it might be too strong when paired with other items. I'd need more data, aka field testing to see that.

Damn it, I had a good response here that got eaten by my browser! The main gist of it was "Damn, looking over these again shows some glaring flaws"

Anyway, yeah. I'd planned for Ninja Blade to have low WP anyway, since it's the first Ninjato you'll be getting. You're right though, combining that with, say, Kagenui would be overkill. Will just stick with + 1 move. Agreed 100% with Kagenui - I just thought "this could be cool" and wrote it without refining properly. What if it proc'd Slow or Stop (as in, the Time Mage spells, rather than the status effects themselves)... or Galaxy stop?

Yeah, maybe one of the other Break skills would be a good idea for Haganemushi, like Shield or Accessory? Definitely a better idea. As for Koga and Iga? They're already getting a WP nerf, which'll directly affect their proc. I also love how they're designed, so would only really consider removing the elemental boosts as a last resort if they're still too strong in testing.

As always, mate, thanks for the feedback.

Also, re:move+1, having that for a two sword weapon will end up with ninjas having 8 move with move+2, or with 6 move teleport O.o something to consider.

1.3 it's known for its with insane movement in the latter chapters, with sticks, slashers, boots and move+3. Hell, I've used a 7 move teleport unit not too long ago. It's not exactly bad gameplay wise, but it simply makes the player work around the uniqueness of each map. Some of the tactical aspect is lost, because height doesn't matter, distance doesn't matter.

Fuck! I'd meant to type Move +1/ Initial: Haste, as in "either or", depending on what was less detrimental. I'd originally thought that Initial Haste would've been better as it's

a) not stackable (when compared to +speed, for example),
b) easily cancelled by slow or stop and
c) will have shit for WP.

Also, I had edited the modifiers so that yes, you'd get quite the speed boost from being a Ninja, but your attack stats in particular would take a hit.

Any other thoughts/ recommendations? Another "interesting" or niche proc? Or maybe something similar in design to Koga/ Iga/ Orochi/ Moonsilk Blade but fire elemental? I's considered extra W.Ev but that's stepping on the toes of knives in general, I think.

Now THAT'S gotten me thinking a bit more. Cheers dude!

Yeah, if it has a sub-par WP (say, if the rest of the late-game ninjatos have 10 WP or so, this one having 6 WP), then yes, I can definitely see it as feasible with Initial: Haste. It'd need testing, but for now it doesn't sound offset.

Another way to balance the more powerful Ninjatos would be to smartly make them have an element that you know the enemy will be resisting a lot in the same part of the game. Say, Initial: Haste Ninjato would probably be used on the entirety of the game, so if you want it to be a little bit more of a judgement call, you can make it Fire-Elemental, so that Black Costume users absorb it. That'd be quite the nerf if you ask me, not in paper, but in practice.

Those kind of things are ways to synergize the equipment, to look at the expected levels they'll be used, or the part of the game they'll be used and how they combine with the rest of the equipment of that level / part of the game.

Good procs for weapons? Blind. Transparent as a bizarre idea. I suggested once to Kjata to change Poison's name to Bleed (and change the colour to red), so that you could make lots of abilities have a "Bleed" proc, which is basically poison but physical-themed. Another proc could be MP damage. IF the procs are going to be physical, try using elements for those.

What could be done is make all of the Ninjatos be around the same theme: low-ish WP, but good side effects. If you plan to do that, do *not* disrupt the balance with a Ninjato with no side effects and monster WP. Stick with the same idea and see how it plays in the game. Punish the best jobs with exactly that, the equipment. One of the best changes balance-wise that Arch did was making Knights be able to wear robes, for example.

But seriously, I'll eventually need something to test, to see how all of that balances out. We're already talking too much on the paper, and too little on the actual testing. As soon as you can do the balance changes, forget about the ENTD and pass it out. The ENTD is just the challenge in front of you. The core of the mod needs to be the rebalance for the player.

Yeah, that's all definitely stuff I had simmering away in the back of my head. You're absolutely right, I should polish up the text edits and double check everything, bar ENTD, and just send out a beta first chance I get. Let's face it, the job changes alone should help give a challenge... ish.

One thing though:

Quote

Not quite sure what you're meaning here. Like, don't let an 'ordinary' Ninjato outclass Monster attacks?

I mean don't include a Ninjato that has no side effects, but high-er HP than the rest of the Ninjatos. Either make all of them have low WP, or none of them.

Hart-Hunt, on 08 May 2015 - 12:58 PM, said:

Ohhh, right, yeah! That was the plan all along. Totally misunderstood there. With you now.

Just getting more and more interesting

how about this new weapon for samurai.. soul blade a blade made from the bones of 3000 men.. strongest blade and has a chance to cast doom.. soul blade has a cost always poison..

regen ring always regen

That sounds pretty much like an idea I have for FFT as well. Change poison to a red color, and rename it to bleed. Then add a strong katana with always bleed.

Hart-Hunt, on 19 May 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

that's awesome .. name it soul eater

bleed vs poison.. what's the difference between this two.. both drain HP

for me bleed drains hp when no more hp it leaves 1 HP unlike poison hp drain and kill the unit when no more hp

My post just got eaten...

Right, got a pressure hose on order for my fan issues, should be here and set up within the next week or two. So, apologies Hart, but it's more "on paper" stuff. This time, regarding Katanas. My thoughts behind Katanas are to give them procs that synergise well with their corresponding ability or thematically, since most of these are legendary swords (and yes, massive degrees of irony with Masamune's effect. ). So, without further ado:

Asura: Still Fire element, procs Oil(probably 100%)
Kotetsu: Still Dark Element, procs Blind (maybe 100%?)
Osafune: Now Lightning element, procs Silence (standard proc chance)
Murasame: Now Water element, procs Regen (100%?)
Ama-no-Murakumo(Heaven's Cloud): Now Wind element, procs Float
Kiyomori: Now Holy element, procs Haste
Muramasa: unique to other katanas (pending extensive testing, of course, given the variables in the formula), Muramasa will use the formula for the vanilla Dark Knight's Abyssal Blade skill (found here ), as this formula drains the user's HP (Muramasa is said to be a cursed sword, for those who don't know). No element. Maybe boost Fire/Ice/Lightning?

Kikuichimonji: Now Earth element, procs Immobilize (standard proc chance)
Masa..myoon ( ): No element, cancels Re-raise. (If only the RNG worked in Aerith's favour, that one time... )
Chirijiraden: Now renamed Yukianesa. Ice elemental, random proc Confuse/ Berserk.

So guys, suggestions/ impressions?

Sounds good to me. I'd love to test that shit out. Hey, btw, why in the heck would you apologize for anything. I'm still happy and hyped that you got part in this extensive project.

My apology was mostly facetious.

I'm not sure why I check this thread several times a week when I clearly don't have time to start a new mod right now ... but I do.
I guess what I'm trying to say is... <Non-rushing encouragement>!

For anyone checking in to see the development of Tides of Fate, check out this thread:
Thanks for all the fish, guys...