[kindex]

How is dmg calculated for Falcon Hit? It appears to be quite random, varying 500-3500 at some battles! Is that correct?

Awesome MOD, by the way.

EDIT: Now I remembered why I started this topic, my doubt was another: does magic defense stack? As in, my Wall Ring will have any effect after reaching max. MD?

[dawnbomb]

kindex, on 11 May 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

How is dmg calculated for Falcon Hit? It appears to be quite random, varying 500-3500 at some battles! Is that correct?

Awesome MOD, by the way.

EDIT: Now I remembered why I started this topic, my doubt was another: does magic defense stack? As in, my Wall Ring will have any effect after reaching max. MD?

no its a hard cap. this is because if it somehow got higher it would overflow to 0. protect/shell still apply tho. (altho when your far enough in the game to start literally hitting stat caps like that, once your at the cap your probably not going to bother casting such things as haste and other effects are way more important, like absorbing nearly every element.)

[dawnbomb]

oh incase you care, the way stats are handled in this kinda is kinda multiplicatively.

so 1 STR = 1 'attack' lets say, (this isnt shown this way but trust) and +1 str turn it to 2 so its actually +2 for a total of 3.

then at 2-3 str you get +3 so its 6. then 3-4STR makes it 10, and so on.

so from 100-105 DEF would be... ALOT of defence!

there is resistances penetration and weaknesses as well tho

[zombero]

There's no hidden stat bonuses, so once you hit max mdef: items won't boost it any higher. As to Falcon Hit, are you using Slasher 2? That weapon has a high damage variance.

[kindex]

zombero, on 25 May 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

There's no hidden stat bonuses, so once you hit max mdef: items won't boost it any higher. As to Falcon Hit, are you using Slasher 2? That weapon has a high damage variance.

Got it; so Wall Ring becomes useless at high level.

Yeah, I'm using Slasher 2! That explains it. It varies because it may generate a critical hit at the Tech?

I didn't understand almost anything said by dawnbomb

[kindex]

zombero, on 25 May 2016 - 06:15 PM, said:

There's no hidden stat bonuses, so once you hit max mdef: items won't boost it any higher.

Since we're at the subject, how does the Prismspecs influences dmg?

[zombero]

kindex, on 25 May 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

Got it; so Wall Ring becomes useless at high level.

Yeah, I'm using Slasher 2! That explains it. It varies because it may generate a critical hit at the Tech?

I didn't understand almost anything said by dawnbomb

Slasher 2 gives a randomized boost or penalty to the damage you deal, similar to Wonder Shot. I believe the max is 4x and minimum is... something ridiculously small. I don't remember exactly offhand.

Prismspecs is just a % mod to all damage. 50% if I remember correctly (and 25% for Sun Specs).

[blackcat777]

Crono is level 23 and equipped with Flint Edge.

Falcon Hit deals damage sometimes around 40, 200, 440, 800, and 1240.

The damage output is always around one of those numbers. 40 and 1240 happen most rarely.

[zombero]

Those are the numbers you're getting with Flint Edge? Hmm... that's most definitely the Wonder Shot damage spread. Are you getting those numbers when you perform regular attacks with Flint Edge?

[blackcat777]

Regular attacks are normal, the damage spread only happens with Falcon Hit.

I used Falcon Hit a lot in my second visit back to dino times yesterday and noticed a similar damage spread with the second sword available for sale there. I *think* it's called the Aeon Blade.

I haven't tested it with other swords just because Ayla is only available at those two times in the beginning of the game. I should have some new swords shortly, so I can report back and let you know!

The odds of hitting really high or really low seem about even so it does keep my playthrough exciting. The damage spread definitely hasn't broken gameplay... I can't spam it and get 2k damage every time.

I also *feel like* the damage spread didn't occur in my previous playthrough - I want to say when I first got Falcon Hit it dealt consistent damage (because I grind like mad in the Hunting Range)... but... I cannot verify this as those saves are now gone.

The first time I saw this thread, I thought, "Oh, it must be the Slasher weapon that does that because I'm getting consistent damage with Falcon Hit." Then I started a new game, saw the numbers I'm getting, and came back to post...

[blackcat777]

Just updating... took Crono and Ayla to Ocean Palace... Star Sword and Rune Blade (the one that the Nu in Kajar sells?) both do the same damage spread. So it seems to effect all weapons Crono has.

If the combo only hits for ~160 damage and I'm trying to wipe a screen of Lashers and Thrashers, their counterattacks against my party leave 2 members standing with about 40 HP. It's not an instant KO for my team, but it keeps things exciting!

[zombero]

I will have to look into this when I get a chance... I'm not sure what could be going on there.

[Praetarius5018]

Maybe the dual tech or one of its components is set to "wonder shot" instead of "base damage x2".

[zombero]

Praetarius5018, on 26 June 2016 - 10:28 PM, said:

Maybe the dual tech or one of its components is set to "wonder shot" instead of "base damage x2".

That would certainly make sense. Though I didn't even know skills could have the wonder shot property, so it would have been quite accidental indeed.

Quote

Falcon Hit deals damage sometimes around 40, 200, 440, 800, and 1240.

I tried to reproduce the issue and wasn't able to do so. I then looked at the data for Falcon Hit and compared it to the original game and this is actually one of the very few dual techs that wasn't changed at all from the original game... Best I could say is try re-downloading the ROM? Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

[Praetarius5018]

zombero, on 14 July 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

That would certainly make sense. Though I didn't even know skills could have the wonder shot property, so it would have been quite accidental indeed.

it is governed by the same byte that gives "base damage +25%" and the like for dual/triple techs.
They rolled like everything into that one byte. What works though is almost up to chance

Spoiler

0	normal
1	2x damage on critical
2	random damage, wonder shot
3	Damage +25%
4	Damage +50%
5	Damage +75%
6	Damage +100%
7	damage with elemental property
8	damage with elemental property +25%
9	damage with elemental property +50%
A	damage with elemental property +75%
B	damage with elemental property +100%
C	+50% damage vs magical creature
D	+100% damage vs magical creature
E	HP to 1?
F	
10	
11	
12	
13	33% damage (triple kick)
14	25% damage (confuse)
15	sleep on magical creature
16	dead allies inc. Damage
17	Auto-shell (armor)
18	50% chance to half HP
19	crisis arm, last HP digit as multiplier
1A	drain lightning 50% (armor)
1B	drain shadow 50% (armor)
1C	drain water 50% (armor)
1D	drain fire 50% (armor)
1E	100% chance to half HP
1F	drain lightning 100% (armor)
20	drain shadow 100% (armor)
21	drain water 100% (armor)
22	drain fire 100% (armor)
23	kills attacker
24	40% chance for instant death
25	instant death, no questions
26	60 % chance to inflict stop
27	60 % chance to inflict slow
28	stop on machine
29	60 % chance to inflict confuse
2A	resist confuse (armor)
2B	resist lock (armor)
2C	resist stop/slow (armor)
2D	resist all status effects (armor)
2E	80 % chance to inflict confuse
2F	4x critical
30	remove shield + barrier
31	Auto-barrier (armor)
32	Auto-confuse (armor)
33	Auto-haste
34	400% damage (like triple tech Spin Strike)
35	Remove all status effect resistances
36	60 % chance to inflict poison
37	60 % chance to inflict sleep
38	9999 damage on critical

[zombero]

Hmm... well the damage bytes for the skill are $00 and $06, and none of the 11 bytes for Falcon Hit are $02. So there doesn't appear to be any issue there.

[blackcat777]

Can I still use my savestates or SRM if I use a new ROM? (I'm guessing probably not a savestate?)

[zombero]

I'd say do a in-game save and use the SRM just to be safe. SNES games tend to not keep much in RAM, but you never know.

[Martamib]

falls to the floor from dizziness and crawls back out the door after being hit by the Math Elemental for a damage of 400.

Not the thread for me.

[Doc Lithius]

zombero, on 14 July 2016 - 06:22 AM, said:

I tried to reproduce the issue and wasn't able to do so. I then looked at the data for Falcon Hit and compared it to the original game and this is actually one of the very few dual techs that wasn't changed at all from the original game... Best I could say is try re-downloading the ROM? Is anyone else experiencing this issue?

Stupid question: Are you using the exact same modification as the one you're providing both here and on Romhacking.net? I ask because sometimes, the simplest solutions are sometimes the answer.

That aside, I actually came here to report another glitch with Falcon Hit that was reported to me, but I figured I should make note of this first reported bug, as well:
Looking at Falcon Hit in Temporal Flux (using the Hi-Tech plugin) reveals the following changes have happened, whether intentional or not:

Quote

Control Header
Headers
Use Effect Header 1: False -> True
Hit Effect 1: Nothing -> Random damage
Hit Effect 2: 200% damage -> Random damage

Effect Headers, Performance Group, Requirements
Effect Header 1 (Unused in base game; used in Lavos' Awakening)
Attack Power: $1E (23) -> $0D (14)

Effect Header 2
Attack Power: $10 (16) -> $08 (08)

For a tech that "wasn't changed at all from the original game", that's quite a few changes -- the biggest of which being the addition of Ayla's stats to the damage calculation (Effect Header 1).

Now, I think it's pretty self-evident as to what's causing Falcon Hit to do random damage... but the other thing I noticed here is something that has to do with the other glitch I wanted to report, which was reported to me by someone who wishes to remain anonymous:

"An anonymous CT fan" said:

Falcon Hit no longer works on enemies that are immune to Rock Throw. I'm about 99% certain this is not the case in base game, and I can see absolutely no justification for the hack enforcing such a thing. Especially because it causes strange things to happen - like monsters taking damage from an attack that's completely cancelled.

This, too, is easy enough to fix (in-theory):
In Effect Header 1 for Falcon Hit, just set the "Enemy is airborne (?) and "Enemy is support (?)" bits to False. This should fix that problem. Should. I haven't tested it myself because I haven't gotten Cat Attack for Ayla yet in my game and I don't want to load up a base game save just in case stat distribution is different between the hacks.

Edit:
I did a little more research into the matter. Apparently, the ROM zombero is distributing from here is different from the patch he put up on Romhacking.net.

After making a patch with Lunar IPS using the game released here, I ran the two patches through LSA's Patch Checker. There's a whopping 194 differences between the two patches -- at least one of which looks fairly substantial. But to get to the point, Falcon Hit has been mostly unchanged in the version from Romhacking.net. It only uses Effect Header 2 (Attack Power $08 (down from $10 (16), use Crono's attack power) instead of both Effect Headers 1 (Attack Power $0D (14) (down from $1E (23), use Alya's attack power) and 2. It also uses "200% damage" for its one and only Attack Effect 2, just like base game.

So. Hm. That might explain that.

Edit 2:
Okay... so the file from the main thread is v1.1... and there are a couple more versions available there (such as v1.2). The version in the on-site file repository also calls itself "v1.1", but was last updated in November of 2015 -- two months after the last "update post" -- but the file is dated 2013. However, the version at Romhacking.net, which has no version number, was last updated in 2014.

Which... version... is the actual "last" version? Because I'm under the impression most people (like myself) are playing v1.1 -- the version linked in the main thread.

This post has been edited by Doc Lithius: 05 November 2016 - 02:04 PM