Insane Difficulty: Miacis - Viewing Profile - Insane Difficulty

I've actually worked through a bit of an experimental "BNW Arranged" thing a couple months ago, trying to implement... pretty much all the community ideas I could find in these two threads (1 & 2), to see what would stick. It was abandonned when I realized too late that Rage tweaking wasn't as straightforward as I assumed, but pretty much the first thing I did was go over the entirety of the item/spell list to gain space while adding needed information.

I'll see if I can document what I came up with.

Honestly, I kinda started tuning him out when it became clear he just wanted the original script in full. Which, I mean, it sure is a valid opinion, but it wasn't bringing much to the discussion.
It's weird too, because on the first page he had started to relent a bit, but went back in full force when more people started talking about the script's flaws, so I do feel a bit responsible for that... Anyways, what I wanted to put forward was more or less acknowledged, so in the interest of not rambling too much, I'll be a bit more concise. edit: I failed.

Augestein, the strawman comment wasn't much directed at you, actually. More at the variety of posts, even early in the thread, that caricatured (I guess it's a better word than strawmanned for this) the actual grievances just to tell the guy to piss off ya bloody wanker. Then again, I was also getting a bit stressed out by a long day, so apologies if I was too dismissive.

Still, from what I gather, you seem to not mind issues that do not concern your main source of attraction to a mod. You call BNW a gameplay mod... but I don't. I cannot discount this as a gameplay mod when so much attention and work was put into the script –and you could say was also advertised as one of the main changes. From the intro of the ReadMe, to the ID download page, to even Mishrak's beginner's FAQ, the script changes are mentioned as a rather important part of the mod's experience... And sometimes it feels a bit like the community has forgotten that.

Sources, emphasis mine:

And none of these sound to me like the mod is aiming for "crazy and wacky dialogue", done just for the fun of it, either.

New Threat is a gameplay mod with absolutely minimal script changes compared to BNW, and SC nails almost all of them. Brave New World has a lot of script revisions, and yet the quality joyfully rollercoasters. This is why people here feel strongly about the script of this gameplay mod. Because it's really a gameplay/script mod.

Digression:

Lockirby2, on 12 March 2017 - 05:07 PM, said:

Like, these quotes in particular are just really weird to me, sorry Lockirby. The script is one of the 3 core changes mentioned in the ReadMe's intro. One third of the UnlockMe (10 000 words...) is occupied by script discussion, and some of it (characterization changes, mostly) was initially in the ReadMe, before it was filed away into the "interesting, but ignoring it won't hamper your enjoyment" file. Like, how much more text does the documentation need before the script is considered a significant part of this mod...?

***Localization Corner because I'm a loca nerd***

Augestein, on 12 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

You are wrong.
The very process of localizing games in the industry is a constant back and forth between the localization team and whatever the creative division has for representatives. Worst case scenario, that representative is the editor, but there's always someone double-checking and vetoing the localizer's decisions. If there's no contact it's a fan/unaffiliated translation.

Augestein, on 12 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Too many, too heavy-handed, too inappropriate. There are many reasons I already elaborated on.

Augestein, on 12 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

Okay... I'm sorry to be blunt and not elaborate more on specific points but you've been doing damage control this entire time and it's getting in the way of conversation. I get it you truly believe "It's not that bad", "There's not that many", "It's just a mod, etc." I'm saying it is that bad, that it's still too many, and I have gone into a lot of detail about it. And I'm visibly not the only one bothered by it.
So let's agree to disagree on whether the poor jokes are hurting this game and leave it at that, okay?

Augestein, on 12 March 2017 - 07:14 PM, said:

If you're talking about the sudden unveiling of sidequests right before the final boss, I'm pretty sure it's being moved to before the crater for v 1.5. Because you know, people who couldn't "let it slide" reported it, and Sega Chief answered to their feedback.
... For the record, nobody came in his thread to say it's not that bad and people are too uptight and he shouldn't change it because etc

Seriously, I don't understand why people here are so abrasive about this sort of criticism. BTB isn't doing it. Synchisi isn't doing it. Why are you doing it? (Yes, you! Aaron!)
Just ignore the childish insults and try to see the criticism lying under. Don't give me that "Well if you're so easily flustered by [strawman] and [other strawman], you should be playing the original game" crap. The reason we're not playing the original game is because we like things in here. And we like to see more good things in it. At least respect that.
The authors are more than qualified enough to filter suggestions they do not want in their mod. There's no "defending" against an "attack" here, sheesh.

Mishrak, on 12 March 2017 - 09:15 PM, said:

It kinda doesn't, though. Is what people are saying, like, right now.

@Augestein: That's... an interesting take on what localization is? Not sure how anybody could be accomplishing proper FF6 localization without getting in contact with the original creative team, anyways.

There are other criteria to judge the writing than "does it alter the story?". In any piece of writing, spelling mistakes, minor lore mistakes, poor syntax, bad jokes and straight-up nonsense NPC talk do not alter the story, but they all break the immersion in their own unique way. We're talking about a 40~50 hours long game that's heavy on text (by video game standards anyways...) and world-building. And since our BNW duo extraordinaire went to great lengths to make some characters more interesting and believable, I do think that pulling people into this cool new world was a part of the idea. Heck, even the gameplay achieves that goal, by differentiating characters and making them even more unique.

Try to understand then that someone getting pulled into dat BNW FF6 RPG groove might find it quite disrupting when Slim Jims are being thrown around, NPCs talk about Pokemon, and others talk about weird things you don't understand because the joke is that it's a reference. None of these are egregious errors in and of themselves (and none "directly affect the story"), but they all slowly pile onto a mille-feuilles of immersion-breaking that might or might not push people away. Even people who came into this mod expecting it to be Gameplay First. Heck, I wouldn't be talking into so much detail about it if it didn't affect me in some way.

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Are you saying that people wanting to write Kefka with a different letter have lost their minds...?

edit:

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Actually, looking back at the UnlockMe notes.... they kinda did? Characterization took some pretty big "localization-like" liberties in some specific cases (not least of which, Mog). Sure, those changes were good, but parts of the original game's meanings were indeed lost. For good or worst, mostly good/neutral, but still.

Augestein, on 12 March 2017 - 04:05 PM, said:

Pretty simple. If the reference is used for "flavor" (Biggs/Wedge, colored knights), nothing is taken away but that lil' bit of flavor. All those names add is that they're like the SW equivalents: your wingmen, and somewhat generic. Still close to what Alfred and Bob would have achieved.
If the reference is used as the punchline to a joke (Cefka fanatics, "relics are comfy and easy to wear"), then... well, you're losing your punchline, so there's no point to your joke anymore. It's going to sound random at best, nonsensical at worst.

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Misuse is how you'll interpret it if you don't get the reference. For those who do get it, it'll be like "oh, he does the battle cry that Kain did in Legacy of Kain" which... I guess originally was a misuse, but for that person who gets the reference, well, seeing the phrase itself is enough to get meaning out of it. Kain used it as a battle cry, Cyan does too.

...
That said, Ex-modder friend, might I suggest cooling off a bit? I understand that FF6 is near and dear to you, but this is still just a romhack.... It improves through discussions, and reading posts with curse words every two lines might actually be more unpleasant that the most innapropriate of Pokémon references. I Herd U Liek the gameplay changes, so maybe try skipping the text...? I'll see myself out