First off, I would like to introduce myself to the forums. My name is Dr. Letha, certified nursing assistant with an M.D. in asswhoopin', but Letha works fine. I've been a bit of a lurker on the forums for a little while, but I've been playing BNW since around 1.20 or 1.30 (I honestly don't remember which).
Quite honestly, I've fallen in love with this game. I've played through BNW almost one time per version/major update, and I keep finding new stuff with each playthrough. Hell, just this last playthrough, I discovered that certain specific event in WoR Thamasa involving Celes, and even after all this time I still only vaguely know what the Mystery Egg does. I've done different builds each time I play, and I feel like the fact that I've played it through probably half a dozen times is a pretty good testament to its repeatability (or my rapidly waning sanity).
I'm currently playing the game through on the 1.7B-s version, but I've also decided that I would attempt doing a playthrough of the current build (1.7B-u) without gaining any experience on any characters. I've never done a LLG in vanilla FF3, but I've never really wanted to due to it pretty much being a showcase of how the game can be broken on half, usually through Gau and his Rages. But now that I've gotten a good amount of BNW experience under my belt, I thought I would attempt to go through the game with the No Exp. option permanently toggled on. Honestly, I'm just curious if it's possible to even get through the entire game in its current form; playing through normally made me realize that a lot of enemies have smarter AIs and, by extension, more ways to deal a lot of damage in a short amount of time, and I'm curious if avoiding such damage is even possible when your characters have such little health. Also, I may be a bit insane in doing this kind of challenge.
The biggest, or at least most obviously prevalent, flaw with not gaining levels is going to be a severe lack of HP and MP, and while that won't be much of an issue in the earlier parts of the game (namely due to the lack of magic until significantly through the WoB), I can see it being a pretty big issue later down the line. In addition, staying at minimum level is going to impose a lot of penalties and otherwise significant disadvantages to all of the characters, but in particular, Terra and Celes are going to be locked to just having Cure at level 3, and Sabin and Cyan will only have a single Blitz/Bushido for an incredibly long time, severely crippling their effectiveness in the long term.
I've done a little bit of the WoB so far, and I'll go more in-depth about specific parts and characters as I go, so I'm pretty excited to see how this run turns out, and if it's even possible to do. Naturally, the prospect of having to go toe-to-toe with the likes of Dadaluma and the goddamn Atma Weapon at level 3 is almost viscerally unappealing given their difficulty in a normal run, but I do plan on trying out any and every strategy I can think of to get past them.
So yeah, hello to everyone, and I hope I can spark at least somebody's interest (or at the very least, entertainment) with this run, and discover even more about the game on the way.
Current characters:
Terra - Lv. 3 / 84 HP 47 MP
Locke - Lv. 3 / 90 HP
Edgar - Lv. 3 / 96 HP
Sabin - Lv. 3 / 160 HP
Shadow - Lv. 3 / 48 HP (really...)
Cyan - Lv. 3 / 154 HP
Gau - Lv. 3 / 36 HP (REALLY)
Celes - Lv. 3 / 144 HP 32 MP
Setzer - Lv. 3 / 84 HP 2 MP
Mog - Lv. 3 / 144 HP 2 MP
Biggs/Wedge - Lv. 1 / 60 HP each
Banon - Lv. 5 / 82 HP (what)
1.7B-# LLG Run (also introduction)
#2
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27 January 2016 - 01:34 AM
I did a LLG run up through Number 24 back in 1.6.x, gave up on Number 128 because my strat needed Cyan to wear two non-No Exp Egg relics and due to how innate statuses work, if a character is dead at the start of a fight (Which Cyan would've needed else he'd level) they're actually immune to that status when revived.
Dadaluma is relatively unchanged in a LLG compared to a casual playthrough, he almost assuredly kills a party member every turn but otherwise it's not too terribly different. 24, 128, and Cranes are all monsters though, same with Ultros III (II is a hard fight as well, but still manageable). Heartfire is easily cheesed thankfully, no idea how the Battle On The Bridge will be.
Also make sure to stock up on Slim Jims. They're a godsend in a LLG, as they're pretty much your only way to cure Seizure and you need full HP to even think about surviving attacks from certain bosses (Ultros III for example).
http://www.insanedif...g-a-llg-of-161/
http://www.insanedif...__1#entry101957
Links to a couple more LLG threads to give you ideas for boss strats. Lockirby also completed a LLG on their Youtube channel a ways back as well, though it was 1.3 iirc and I'm too lazy to dig it up regardless.
Dadaluma is relatively unchanged in a LLG compared to a casual playthrough, he almost assuredly kills a party member every turn but otherwise it's not too terribly different. 24, 128, and Cranes are all monsters though, same with Ultros III (II is a hard fight as well, but still manageable). Heartfire is easily cheesed thankfully, no idea how the Battle On The Bridge will be.
Also make sure to stock up on Slim Jims. They're a godsend in a LLG, as they're pretty much your only way to cure Seizure and you need full HP to even think about surviving attacks from certain bosses (Ultros III for example).
http://www.insanedif...g-a-llg-of-161/
http://www.insanedif...__1#entry101957
Links to a couple more LLG threads to give you ideas for boss strats. Lockirby also completed a LLG on their Youtube channel a ways back as well, though it was 1.3 iirc and I'm too lazy to dig it up regardless.
#3
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27 January 2016 - 01:51 AM
Yeah, I spent about an hour stealing slim jims because I knew I'd need them. I'll go into more detail later but so far my main strategy is using Celes to tank the everloving shit out of everything. She's got one of the highest HP reserves all things considered, and she can tank physically with full iron armor, Defend, and the Knight Cape, and magically with Runic. I gave her a Black Belt for a little while and she was doing pretty nice damage while protecting everyone during the Narshe battle.
#4
- Lock Birdy
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27 January 2016 - 06:15 AM
Actually, my LLG was on 1.0.8.
Good luck Dr. Letha!
Good luck Dr. Letha!
#5
- Improbability Breaker
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27 January 2016 - 07:58 AM
Rynzer pushed 1.6 up to Thamasa before he was stonewalled (and burned out) by heart fire.
I suspect you're gonna have a lot of issues dying to randoms you want to run away from because nATB will make sure they get some attacks off. If you can make it that far and get some warp whistles, then you'll have a better time. I have no idea how you'll handle the WoR or KT though.
I'll be watching this with some interest! I don't have the level of madness required to try this.
I suspect you're gonna have a lot of issues dying to randoms you want to run away from because nATB will make sure they get some attacks off. If you can make it that far and get some warp whistles, then you'll have a better time. I have no idea how you'll handle the WoR or KT though.
I'll be watching this with some interest! I don't have the level of madness required to try this.
#6
- Co-Creator of BNW
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27 January 2016 - 08:26 AM
Dr. Letha, on 27 January 2016 - 12:01 AM, said:
Banon - Lv. 5 / 82 HP (what)
The back row nerf made it possible for Banon to get OHKO'd by Ultros from full health at his expected level for that, fight, so I compensated by bumping up his level rather than buffing his base HP or by weakening Ultros.
#7
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27 January 2016 - 02:25 PM
BTB, on 27 January 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:
The back row nerf made it possible for Banon to get OHKO'd by Ultros from full health at his expected level for that, fight, so I compensated by bumping up his level rather than buffing his base HP or by weakening Ultros.
Ultros was pretty rough all the same, but I am glad that Banon had those two extra levels, that boosted HP was a blessing for the Ultros battle. It wasn't too rough once I got Ultros' attack pattern down and knew when to just have Banon Defend, but there were still some pretty close calls, particularly when Ultros would do a full-party Tentacle and then single-target Banon for one on his next turn. Between the Dried Meat and the Slim Jims being tossed around, Terra found a newfound appreciation for the curative properties of meat.
I'd also like to give a nice shout-out to Locke for spending well over an hour stealing slim jims on Mt. Koltz, as well as stealing enough Black Hearts during the Narshe battle to sustain my financial needs for a long time to come. He also wins brownie points for taking out Kefka by stealing his special snowflake Tiara; whoever decided to make him flee on a successful Steal, I owe you dinner or something.
#8
- Co-Creator of BNW
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27 January 2016 - 02:49 PM
I just thought it would be funny if you stole his Tiara and he got all mad and threw a hissy fit and went home.
#9
- Challenger
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27 January 2016 - 02:59 PM
Letha, you've been here for less than a day and it's like you're one of the regulars! A post-lurking welcome to ID!
#10
- Creator of Darkness Within
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- Posts: 347
27 January 2016 - 05:19 PM
Always nice to see other players willing to tackle LLGs. I made it up to Kefka's Tower in 1.4ish and the Burning House in 1.6 (as Mish mentioned). You will need to do a LOT of GP farming, and the best place I found for this was outside of Jidoor/Zozo. The Fighter/Bugger encounter gives almost 1k a pop. Double Rhinox and 4 Greasemonk outside South Figaro give ~600 per encounter and aren't too bad either. Don't bother anywhere else in the WoB as the enemies are either too hard, take too long to kill, or give too little money. WoR is Movers, Movers, Movers for money. You'll spend more time farming money than actually playing the game in the WoB.
As for bosses, pretty much everything from the Opera onward is dangerous as hell. In particular though, watch out for parts where your movement is restricted as it can be difficult/impossible to get certain items you need. The evasion stats are king and don't bother keeping anything except Phoenix Downs and Dried Meats for healing. Tonics and Potions sell for a lot of money and there's absolutely no reason to use them. With that said though, understanding how the defense/magic defense stats work in FFVI makes strategizing certain late game fights a lot easier.
Gau is super important; learn every rage you can. Try not to miss any formations so you can go and get them from the Veldt ASAP. Learn your enemy's weaknesses and exploit them. A lot of bosses are made easier/possible in LLGs with the correct use of equipment/rages.
Jumping the gun a bit, but get Umaro last in the WoR otherwise he'll fuck up your level average.
Also, fuck the IAF. That is all.
As for bosses, pretty much everything from the Opera onward is dangerous as hell. In particular though, watch out for parts where your movement is restricted as it can be difficult/impossible to get certain items you need. The evasion stats are king and don't bother keeping anything except Phoenix Downs and Dried Meats for healing. Tonics and Potions sell for a lot of money and there's absolutely no reason to use them. With that said though, understanding how the defense/magic defense stats work in FFVI makes strategizing certain late game fights a lot easier.
Gau is super important; learn every rage you can. Try not to miss any formations so you can go and get them from the Veldt ASAP. Learn your enemy's weaknesses and exploit them. A lot of bosses are made easier/possible in LLGs with the correct use of equipment/rages.
Jumping the gun a bit, but get Umaro last in the WoR otherwise he'll fuck up your level average.
Also, fuck the IAF. That is all.
#11
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27 January 2016 - 05:31 PM
I remembered that in the vanilla game, Kefka had some semi-rare ring to steal, so I just assumed he'd have something special in BNW as well. I can definitely see him going into a hissy fit over his hairpiece getting stolen, it's a really nice touch that goes a long way towards the overall bombast of his character.
That said, it's a bit of a dice roll to steal it from him, but seeing as though Locke just crawls back to Banon at 1 HP every time he takes a dirt nap, victory through larceny is significantly easier than plinking away at his (relatively) high HP.
I've got a bit of free time, so I might as well start the recap:
Prologue, and Locke ft. the Moogle Brigade
The Magitek attack is still easy, Biggs and Wedge get sent off to Chrono Trigger via Tritoch X-Zone Wormhole, and attacking the whelk shell is still a poor idea.
After a brisk walk through the mines with Terra, defending her with Locke and company isn't any more challenging than a normal run, although this is the first run I've noticed the Marshal's new steal, I was wondering where all the Rename Cards went. I go nuts and steal like half a dozen of them even though I've really only got a single instance where I like to use one.
Fleeing to Figaro was pretty quick too, honestly the first few parts of the game have little to no changes in difficulty since it's still the start of the game. I do make it a point to grind to 5000gp at a bare minimum, Edgar's Bioblaster is absolutely critical for events in the near-ish future. I didn't need to, but I decided to go and grab another bundle of gp for the Dragoon Seal in South Figaro; I don't see me having to resort to using the Super Flying Figaro Bros. strategies in this kind of run–doubly so considering that Sabin is unfortunately locked out of his Suplexing powers at level 3–but the stat boosts from the seal itself aren't half bad for how early it's accessible.
Mt. Koltz and the 1337 River
Going up the mountain wasn't so difficult, although the occasional Gale Cut would end in a reset. Terra could sometimes survive one, but it meant being in single digit health, and other enemies were more than willing to knock her out before she could do anything.
Like I said before, Locke spent a looooong time stealing Slim Jims here. The 100hp is a full heal on everyone but a critical HP Edgar with his pike, and the Regen buff is invaluable for tanking hits for the party (god bless you, Knight Cape). The hardest part about Vargas is his occasional Gale Cut, but I could reliably survive them so I'm assuming he's got less magical lower than the birds on the mountain. Poor guy, no wonder Sabin's better than him.
Fuck the Lete River. Fuck Albatrosses and their reset button Fireball, fuck Ultros for being a major roadblock until I memorized his AI, and an extra special fuck off to Banon for not using his special oracle powers to predict how stupid his river escape plan would turn out to be and not having the foresight to equip a shield.
As an aside, I've always secretly wished that Banon would get more fleshing out in FF6. Like, where he came from, how he came to hate the Empire, how he came to lead the Returners, and even why he's considered an oracle of sorts. I've always had the headcanon that he either hailed from Thamasa and innately had powers, or that maybe he was once a Magitek soldier himself before some events unfolded and he went off to form the Returners. I've personally always been curious about his fascination with Terra and her esper powers, makes me feel like there was something deeper than what he tells the group. Shame he doesn't get more fleshing out, but that's just me
That said, it's a bit of a dice roll to steal it from him, but seeing as though Locke just crawls back to Banon at 1 HP every time he takes a dirt nap, victory through larceny is significantly easier than plinking away at his (relatively) high HP.
I've got a bit of free time, so I might as well start the recap:
Prologue, and Locke ft. the Moogle Brigade
The Magitek attack is still easy, Biggs and Wedge get sent off to Chrono Trigger via Tritoch X-Zone Wormhole, and attacking the whelk shell is still a poor idea.
After a brisk walk through the mines with Terra, defending her with Locke and company isn't any more challenging than a normal run, although this is the first run I've noticed the Marshal's new steal, I was wondering where all the Rename Cards went. I go nuts and steal like half a dozen of them even though I've really only got a single instance where I like to use one.
Fleeing to Figaro was pretty quick too, honestly the first few parts of the game have little to no changes in difficulty since it's still the start of the game. I do make it a point to grind to 5000gp at a bare minimum, Edgar's Bioblaster is absolutely critical for events in the near-ish future. I didn't need to, but I decided to go and grab another bundle of gp for the Dragoon Seal in South Figaro; I don't see me having to resort to using the Super Flying Figaro Bros. strategies in this kind of run–doubly so considering that Sabin is unfortunately locked out of his Suplexing powers at level 3–but the stat boosts from the seal itself aren't half bad for how early it's accessible.
Mt. Koltz and the 1337 River
Going up the mountain wasn't so difficult, although the occasional Gale Cut would end in a reset. Terra could sometimes survive one, but it meant being in single digit health, and other enemies were more than willing to knock her out before she could do anything.
Like I said before, Locke spent a looooong time stealing Slim Jims here. The 100hp is a full heal on everyone but a critical HP Edgar with his pike, and the Regen buff is invaluable for tanking hits for the party (god bless you, Knight Cape). The hardest part about Vargas is his occasional Gale Cut, but I could reliably survive them so I'm assuming he's got less magical lower than the birds on the mountain. Poor guy, no wonder Sabin's better than him.
Fuck the Lete River. Fuck Albatrosses and their reset button Fireball, fuck Ultros for being a major roadblock until I memorized his AI, and an extra special fuck off to Banon for not using his special oracle powers to predict how stupid his river escape plan would turn out to be and not having the foresight to equip a shield.
As an aside, I've always secretly wished that Banon would get more fleshing out in FF6. Like, where he came from, how he came to hate the Empire, how he came to lead the Returners, and even why he's considered an oracle of sorts. I've always had the headcanon that he either hailed from Thamasa and innately had powers, or that maybe he was once a Magitek soldier himself before some events unfolded and he went off to form the Returners. I've personally always been curious about his fascination with Terra and her esper powers, makes me feel like there was something deeper than what he tells the group. Shame he doesn't get more fleshing out, but that's just me
#12
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27 January 2016 - 05:58 PM
Wait, Banon is an oracle?
i have played this game since before my earliest memory and i never learned this
i have played this game since before my earliest memory and i never learned this
#13
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27 January 2016 - 06:22 PM
Bauglir, on 27 January 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:
Wait, Banon is an oracle?
i have played this game since before my earliest memory and i never learned this
i have played this game since before my earliest memory and i never learned this
It's his "class" listed in the GBA release, and I'm pretty sure it's mentioned elsewhere. And it's always kinda intrigued me as to where he got his magical healing ability, unless he's just shoving potions of varying quality down everyone's throats at once.
#14
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27 January 2016 - 07:25 PM
Related to my strategy of Knight Cape tanking, I have a mechanical question: to what extent does countering an attack mimic the Fight command? Like, I know counterattacks can proc critical and spell procs, and I have particularly fond memories of giving Strago a Black Belt so he could cement his destiny as the most dangerous staff-wielder in existence, but can they also activate a desperation attack? I'll go into a little more depth when I get around to typing up my synopsis of Sabin's scenario, but a large part of surviving some of the enemy encounters was due to Shadow with a Knight Cape (sometimes two because 84% evasion on top of the Interceptor attack dodge–is that dodge chance calculated before, after, or with the 84% evasion?–is absolutely ridiculous amounts of evasion and Iove it) dodge tanking hits for Sabin and Cyan, and countering back when he had the Black Belt instead of the second cape. I was curious as to whether or not he could counter with his desperation attack or of that wasn't possible with how the game does counters. If it is possible, then A): that's fucking badass and I need to incorporate that into my later strategies, and B): I haven't seen it yet.
#15
- Creator of Darkness Within
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27 January 2016 - 07:44 PM
There is an easier method of dealing with Ultros 1 (as well as just general safety when grinding money). If you confuse Greasemonks there's a chance they cast Vanish on you. Just have to be careful that they don't Step Mine you in the process of getting your entire party Vanished.
Once your whole party is Vanished you can pretty much shit all over the river and Ultros 1. The only thing that'll get you is Fireball, but with the right strategy you can kill Albatrosses before they do so. In an LLG, Banon is actually a really great physical attacker since he has a Thunder Rod. The proc does pretty good damage on everything in the area too.
As to your desperation attack inquiry, I want to say I've seen it happen.
Once your whole party is Vanished you can pretty much shit all over the river and Ultros 1. The only thing that'll get you is Fireball, but with the right strategy you can kill Albatrosses before they do so. In an LLG, Banon is actually a really great physical attacker since he has a Thunder Rod. The proc does pretty good damage on everything in the area too.
As to your desperation attack inquiry, I want to say I've seen it happen.
#16
- Co-Creator of BNW
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27 January 2016 - 08:50 PM
Rynzer, on 27 January 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:
As to your desperation attack inquiry, I want to say I've seen it happen.
It can. It's how 90% of BNW's DA's occur.
#17
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27 January 2016 - 09:00 PM
Rynzer, on 27 January 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:
If you confuse Greasemonks there's a chance they cast Vanish on you.
Holy shit that would've been a much better idea than the nightmare I went through, thanks for the tip!
Quote
As to your desperation attack inquiry, I want to say I've seen it happen.
BTB, on 27 January 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:
It can. It's how 90% of BNW's DA's occur.
I guess I've just never seen it happen :<
Taking advantage of desperation attacks is one of the more prominent things I've been working on implementing into my strategies, and now that I know I can activate them through counters, things just got a whole lot better for some of my boss plans. Considering most attacks outright KO most of my characters, being at critical is more advantageous than not, and since Phoenix Downs revive to critical HP, using desperation attacks is a pretty significant, if not a bit unpredictable, way of doing significant damage to an otherwise healthy boss.
I got ridiculously lucky with the Hell Angel fight and Locke used Mirager and tore the thing to shreds while Celes Runic'd and Knight Cape tanked for him.
#18
- Dicklord, Lord of Dicks
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27 January 2016 - 09:01 PM
Rynzer, on 27 January 2016 - 07:44 PM, said:
There is an easier method of dealing with Ultros 1 (as well as just general safety when grinding money). If you confuse Greasemonks there's a chance they cast Vanish on you. Just have to be careful that they don't Step Mine you in the process of getting your entire party Vanished.
Except that now the save point right before Ultros is a full heal that removes Vanish. And you're forced to walk into it.
#19
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27 January 2016 - 09:13 PM
Stann, on 27 January 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:
Except that now the save point right before Ultros is a full heal that removes Vanish. And you're forced to walk into it.
#20
- Creator of Darkness Within
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28 January 2016 - 04:55 AM
Stann, on 27 January 2016 - 09:01 PM, said:
Except that now the save point right before Ultros is a full heal that removes Vanish. And you're forced to walk into it.
Oh, that's just vile. Hadn't thought of that.
Desperation attack was pretty much the only way I could kill Ultros 3. Setting them up can be rough though, especially with the new full-heal save points.
