praetarius5018

Breath of Fire 2 - Defiance of Fate

18 posts in this topic

I've no idea where the ideas came from this time but...

1) Each spell can be used once per battle but cost no AP (exception: dragon skills cost a fixed 3)
With some form of scaling damage/healing power this should make more spells relevant than the newest 2-3 out of a potential 32 spell slots you have per character.
Implementation is easy since one unique enemy skill can seal spells until end of battle, so the same mechanic can just be used.

2) LP replaces AP; this is kind of a secondary HP bar.
If taken HP damage exceeds 50% of remaining HP you additionally take some LP damage relative to the HP damage.
Fatal HP damage deals more LP damage; if at least 1 LP remains the death is avoided and some HP is recovered (this replaces the chance to survive fatal damage via guts stat).
Overall this should lower the risk of getting randomly one shot just from AI roulette choosing the right/wrong action while putting a limit to how long you can get by with just taking 90% damage hits and spamming full heals while ignoring (de)buffs.

3) The condition stat (tired/fine/great, measured on a 0-255 scale) gets a bit more involvement.
By default it only seems to go up (neither many battles, day/night changes nor death did decrease it in my tests) and it is mainly responsible for a massive crit rate (both weapon and spells) at the end.
Resting would now increase condition to 160 if it was below.
Taking damage would decrease it by 1, more if LP damage is taken.
Having a bad condition would reduce the received healing, at most -30%.

Not sure if any other events should influence condition tbh.

4) The whole shaman fusions feel a bit underdeveloped; half of them come only near the end of the game and besides stats and maybe changing the character's unique skill not much happens.
So once you unlock fusions at all you can already use all 6 shamans for fusion but until you find the real shaman the relevant stat bonus is halved, e.g. without earth shaman you'd only get +10% defense if the real bonus was +20%.
Additionally you receive a small bonus to damage dealt with attacks of the same type as a fused shaman (fire shaman boosts fire weapons and spells, dark shaman would apply that to non-elemental) and resist attacks of the element (non-elemental only -25%, other shaman -50%) but take 25% more damage from the weakness (fire shaman gives weakness to water/ice).

5) Stat growth is half fixed by character and half determined by the equipped weapon type.
To that end most weapons would be equippable by all and instead of sword/bow/etc. we'd work with weapon enhancement crystals or something.
E.g. a wind type weapon would give higher AGL growth but less defense and earth type would give more HP but lower AGL.

6) Bleu gets actual stat gains instead of reading from the random encounter table.

7) Permanently stat boosting items get axed; will probably replace them with some tomes that can teach spells.

 

As written above, these are ideas. I've done some work on this already but not enough to be presentable in any way.
Feel free to comment on this madness.

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Let's see...I havent touch BOF2 in a while but I'm always up to a new mod.

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

1) Each spell can be used once per battle but cost no AP (exception: dragon skills cost a fixed 3)
With some form of scaling damage/healing power this should make more spells relevant than the newest 2-3 out of a potential 32 spell slots you have per character.
Implementation is easy since one unique enemy skill can seal spells until end of battle, so the same mechanic can just be used.

It reminds me of cosmic star heroine approach with items in battle. I like it since you have to actually use everything in your pockets to seal the deal

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

2) LP replaces AP; this is kind of a secondary HP bar.
If taken HP damage exceeds 50% of remaining HP you additionally take some LP damage relative to the HP damage.
Fatal HP damage deals more LP damage; if at least 1 LP remains the death is avoided and some HP is recovered (this replaces the chance to survive fatal damage via guts stat).
Overall this should lower the risk of getting randomly one shot just from AI roulette choosing the right/wrong action while putting a limit to how long you can get by with just taking 90% damage hits and spamming full heals while ignoring (de)buffs.

Must ask: Can you recover LP? Even if the answer is no, I like the idea to actually know what guts do and plan ahead

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

3) The condition stat (tired/fine/great, measured on a 0-255 scale) gets a bit more involvement.
By default it only seems to go up (neither many battles, day/night changes nor death did decrease it in my tests) and it is mainly responsible for a massive crit rate (both weapon and spells) at the end.
Resting would now increase condition to 160 if it was below.
Taking damage would decrease it by 1, more if LP damage is taken.
Having a bad condition would reduce the received healing, at most -30%.

Not sure if any other events should influence condition tbh.

More details please? I know the original condition stat was there to fill space and maybe affects the ending? (don't really remember)

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

4) The whole shaman fusions feel a bit underdeveloped; half of them come only near the end of the game and besides stats and maybe changing the character's unique skill not much happens.
So once you unlock fusions at all you can already use all 6 shamans for fusion but until you find the real shaman the relevant stat bonus is halved, e.g. without earth shaman you'd only get +10% defense if the real bonus was +20%.
Additionally you receive a small bonus to damage dealt with attacks of the same type as a fused shaman (fire shaman boosts fire weapons and spells, dark shaman would apply that to non-elemental) and resist attacks of the element (non-elemental only -25%, other shaman -50%) but take 25% more damage from the weakness (fire shaman gives weakness to water/ice).

Love the idea. The shaman system is one that I would like to play the most with since from BOF3 onwards the masters system was installed (and abused to no end)

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

5) Stat growth is half fixed by character and half determined by the equipped weapon type.
To that end most weapons would be equippable by all and instead of sword/bow/etc. we'd work with weapon enhancement crystals or something.
E.g. a wind type weapon would give higher AGL growth but less defense and earth type would give more HP but lower AGL.

Sounds kind of complicated. What if everyone has access to 2-3 weapon types so everyone can excel at something while having secondary builds to fill holes in the active party

On 16/12/2019 at 2:19 PM, praetarius5018 said:

6) Bleu gets actual stat gains instead of reading from the random encounter table.

7) Permanently stat boosting items get axed; will probably replace them with some tomes that can teach spells.

These were needed regardless of all the above changes

 

This is for the GBA version or the original SNES version?

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11 minutes ago, ronlyn said:

Let's see...I havent touch BOF2 in a while but I'm always up to a new mod.

Tbh. I've never even finished BoF2, the high encounter rate just became unbearable for me,
which is why I cut it in half already.

11 minutes ago, ronlyn said:

Must ask: Can you recover LP? Even if the answer is no, I like the idea to actually know what guts do and plan ahead

with everything that recovers AP in vanilla: inns, events, some items and the Will command from unfused Nina, though that may get a different purpose, dunno.

14 minutes ago, ronlyn said:

More details please? I know the original condition stat was there to fill space and maybe affects the ending? (don't really remember)

Condition influences chances for crit/deathblow, spell crit (some guides call that well-cast since it applies to all targets of one spell and not each individual target) and counter, maybe a few other minor things as well but should be nothing with events.
The only event I know that checks for stats is the one NPC that teaches you spells at 1 HP+0 AP - speaking of, what to do with that one...

17 minutes ago, ronlyn said:

Sounds kind of complicated. What if everyone has access to 2-3 weapon types so everyone can excel at something while having secondary builds to fill holes in the active party

You've already individual base growth rates - I think what happens after that should be up to the player; do you want some more HP/LP for Nina so she doesn't die if someone breathes in her direction? or go for max WIS to play up her aoe clear abilities.
There's just some stuff you can't solve via stats; e.g. Rand doesn't really have many spells so building him like a caster won't do much unless you go out of your way to give him all the spells from events/npcs.

23 minutes ago, ronlyn said:

This is for the GBA version or the original SNES version?

SNES - there was a GBA version?

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1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

SNES - there was a GBA version?

Yes, they do exist but I guess it must be the same case as with the advance version of FFVI: Not much changes but somehow the games is more broken

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31 minutes ago, Holy2tack said:

This sounds super fun. BoF2 is one of the games I will play over and over. I haven't checked out your tech demo yet, so if this is answered there I'm sorry. Are you building this over vanilla or over the Ryusui translation? http://www.romhacking.net/translations/1384/

the translation - the original was very questionable and the translation actually fixed some bugs and added a run button, so less work for me :D

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The shaman system and Township are both very half-baked and need some work. If you do nothing else, unlock the shamans much earlier and do what you can to make them less mutually-exclusive.

That's off the top of my head. Swing by Discord and hash things out when you start working on this. I've got more than a few things I can probably suggest once I get to thinking on it.

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7 hours ago, BTB said:

The shaman system and Township are both very half-baked and need some work. If you do nothing else, unlock the shamans much earlier and do what you can to make them less mutually-exclusive.

Yeah, that's the plan; once you get access to the fusion hall you can use all 6 for fusions but until you find the real shaman the relevant stat bonus gets halved, like defense for the earth shaman.
Some potentially fun stuff that would be possible would be too allow different characters to share the sprite changing fusions; the game has absolutely no problem with giving e.g. Nina Katt's devil form but keeping her own base stats and spell list; the Keep command is added as well and the sprite works.

Not really sure what to do with Township - like 80% of the options are just "guide-dang it!!" level of traps.

7 hours ago, BTB said:

Swing by Discord and hash things out when you start working on this.

will do - lets see how much my productivity will suffer this time :P

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I always felt like Bow, Karn, or Patty should have been playable characters. At the very least Patty. Maybe a special battle with Bow and Karn when you reach that island would be fun. I think there was a guy over at romhacking.net that looked into it, and it was too difficult to implement another PC.

Edited by Holy2tack

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yeah, that would need a massive amount of ram to hold the character data and moving around like everything in memory.
that is more in the realm of theoretically possible.

patty is also one of those elements where something is started and then it just ends.

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So wait, if you're replacing AP with LP then are Ryu's dragon spells going to cost 3 LP. then? Also LP stuff reminds me of the SaGa games. Do you play any pen-and-paper RPGs btw?

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5 hours ago, Thirdtwin said:

So wait, if you're replacing AP with LP then are Ryu's dragon spells going to cost 3 LP. then?

That is the current scenario, yes.
Though they'll also deal a lot less damage now.
I'll probably increase the cost a bit later.

I currently have them at:
mob fight damage: POWER x (37+curLP/2) / 37
boss fights damage: POWER x (30+curLP/2) / 30
and then plug the result into the regular spell damage routine so that e.g. the adult dragons now actually have their elements work.

The adult dragons are power 40-42, kaiser has 50.
So at 0 LP you deal 50 damage with kaiser before randomness, element and whatnot else affects spell damage.

5 hours ago, Thirdtwin said:

Also LP stuff reminds me of the SaGa games.

I never played those.
And in the GB titles there was no LP afaik.

5 hours ago, Thirdtwin said:

Do you play any pen-and-paper RPGs btw?

nope. At most I played pnp derived cRPGs like Icewind Dale and Neverwinter Nights 2 but never the original stuff.

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demo v2

  • added timed hits; this has no visual effect besides making damage numbers yellow or red (perfect timing) instead of white
  • turn order is modified by the action used, e.g. item goes a bit sooner, spells vary depending on the exact spell used
  • added 25 new skills/spells, made rest usable in battle as a small heal
  • changed which spells are learned on level up, some are variable by equipped weapon type similar to how stat growth changes
  • changed a few weapon shops

timeddefend.gif.2e0d9513e3339d0bb49eca205a3c71a0.gif

finally a half-decent reason for the one by one handling of attacks against your party..

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Timed hits seem neat. I honestly found offensive spells kind of weak in the core game. The spell formula is mostly just fixed damage iirc and there weren't many ways to boost them. I'll be interested to see what you do with spells, especially your new ones. Also what are your plans for the architecture style choice for Township? Normal/cooking outstrips the other two very readily in terms of optimization even without stat-up items, and I don't know if making condition matter more will make the tavern style house (with the condition up drink) worth it in the long run. And the gambling one is just kind of sad. Honestly if there were some way to get all three on the same map, it would make the architectural style a purely aesthetic choice without you getting bored of always choosing normal houses to get those cooking bonuses.

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There was no real way to boost spell damage;
it was fixed damage with chance to deal +50% damage based on WIS and maybe a terrain bonus before elemental resistance and percentage magic defense.

Spell damage starts now much lower but scales with WIS and the +50% chance is based on the LUCK stat instead of WIS.

I've currently no idea what to do with township.
The 3 base styles are heavily leaning towards one being strictly better - exactly as you said, for cooking - 80%+ of the tenants are also useless,
like really... +4 def for ONE battle.
That'll be a lot of work to fix...

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