praetarius5018

Party Suggestions 2.0

253 posts in this topic

Not gonna lie the ultimate glass canon build with Deathbringer weapon and STR capstone looks tempting, with Gran Divina tier 1 spells being fast to cast and all ^^

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There seem to be a few levels of craziness here:

Level 1: Deathless weapon. If I went for a high STR build, this would be the one I would start with; this weapon is fast and powerful and comes with zero downsides apart from not being able to try any of the Death Bringer gear.

Level 2: Death Bringer weapon. This one is not cursed and looks straightforward to use, and gives a bonus to both attack and magic which is perfect for Grand Divina. It looks like it comes with the full downsides of death though. It might be worth starting deathless, then carefully saving and giving this a try to see if the difference is worth it.

Level 3: Death Bringer weapon, ring, and Silence Res. ring. Here, only attack is increasing, so it may give diminishing returns compared to just the weapon. Still no curse, so you can flirt with this setup and return to normal gear according to preference.

Level 4: Death Bringer weapon, armor, ring, and Silence Res. Ring. Once you put the armor on, you're committed. But the armor lessens the downsides of the death score so the draw is there. The tortured Grand Divina (Light/Light!), drawn ever deeper by her lust for power, eases her pain with a contract writ in blood.

The Constant Regen helm (also cursed) may also be able to afford you constant casting with longer-animation spells like Fireball.

Let me know if I missed anything....

Edited by rpschamp

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One more: Level 0: LUK-based ATK+ weapon. Go for 19/19/19/19/19/19 at level 60 and then ignore STR thereafter. The LUK score should boost her p.atk instead, and you can stay committed to Angela's traditional stats.

Edited by rpschamp

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Well :

Level 5 : Deathbringer weapon with Undead armor, and Undead ring, give up all means to heal and your own life to just focus on bringing as much pain as possible and for as long as possible, thanks to Undead boost in defenses and lessen death score effect (ps : can put Trials Helm for more defense).

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I think I'm going to try the Spell: Resistance ring for my current playthrough. Once the spell is cast, can the effect be removed for the current battle? Will Antimagic cancel it, and do you have to recast it after a character dies?

Edited by rpschamp

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So finally taking back my man power run, just reach for the moment my plan is as follow for now on Dark Palace route :

Kevin as God Hand

Spells : 

1-Heal Light
2-Protect Down (LV39)
3-Saint Saber^ (LV43)
4-Magic Shield (LV47)
5-Tinkle Rain* (LV49)
6-Power Up* (LV53)
Raise VIT to 23 (LV58)
7-Ice Saber (LV61)
8-Thunder Saber^ (LV65)
9-Aura Wave^ (LV70)

VIT Capstone

Gear : 
Weapon : Defense
Helm : Phys Defense/Magic Defense
Armor : ???
Ring 1 : Ailment Res
Ring 2 : Trials Skill

Duran as Lord 

Spells :
1-Heal Light* (LV39)
2-Ice Saber (LV41)
3-Protect Up* (LV45)
4-Tinkle Rain* (LV48) 
5-Speed Up* (LV50)
6-Life Booster (LV53)
7-Energy Ball (LV56)
8-Arrow (LV58)
9-Diamond Saber (LV62)
10-Speed Down* (LV66)


INT Capstone

Gear :
Weapon : Heal Up
Helm : Trials Defense
Armor : Trials Buff
Ring 1 : Trials Skill
Ring 2 : Trials Element

Trials Set

Hawk as Ninja Master

Spells :

1-Water Jutsu* (LV41)
2-Fire Jutsu* (LV43)
3-Shuriken* (LV44)
4-Thunder Jutsu
5-Earth Jutsu
6-Crescent (LV45)
7-Analyse (LV52)
8-Ice Saber
9-Transshape
10-Thunder Saber

LCK Capstone : ignore monster type specific crit resistance; critical damage +20%

Gear :
Weapon : Crit By TP
Helm : Crit Up
Armor : Trials Buff
Ring 1 : Crit UP
Ring 2 : ???

So I change my plan for Hawk and decide to go Ninja Master, this is at first for the convenience of havin the main debuff MT with Water and Fire Jutsu.

Decide to go for a Crit Build with him and putting to use his Analyse spell and LCK Capstone (of course to take fully advantage of it gonna do Xian Bhe and Land Umber after I got it). Not sure what to give him for his Second Ring slot was thinking of maybe giving him Meta Curse to use it with Crescent or since I don't have Saber keep this slot open to put Elemental Weapon of the boss weakness. In any case gonna be a Debuffer and then a Damage Dealer, I expect Trials Buff and his LCK Capstone to be good but we'll see.

As for the other Kevin is gonna be my Tank, VIT Capstone draw aggro, Ailment Res to get immune to Statut Effect, Trials Skills to be immune to Crit, I also decide I'm gonna ignore STR and focus on his Vitality as it will increase his p.def, HP and Bonus from Wolf Form and put the Defense weapon to make his Attack = p.def. Not sure what to give as an Armor, High Defense would give higher Defense and as a result more attack with the Defense weapon, Auto-Buff might work well with Magic Shield and Power Up* but low defense and low HP might be an issue. I also hesitate if I shouldn't just go ahead and put the Trial Defense helm but having 2 characters with it might not be a good idea.

As for Lord gonna be my support, Trial set for Instant-cast if I need to rebuff or a fast Healing and INT capstone to make him more tanky, gonna focus on his VIT, INT and PIE stats since I can pretty ignore AGL and LUK with him.

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Alright got pretty far only Land Umber left then it's Final Dungeon time so to sum up so far, in the end for Hawk I decided to put the Meta Curse Ring on him, and also decide to invest a bit in STR to get Thunder Jutsu MT, and so with his LUK capstone and a Crit Build he performs..... well let just say a video is better than a long text :

YIKES so for reference here :
This is on Tough Difficulty
Ennemies in the area before Xian Bhe were LV72 so I expect Xian Bhe to be about LV74, so expected LUK is 25, Hawk's LUK is 25 so if we calc this with the gear I have on Hawk :

Critchance = 25 x 2 + 8 + 31 = 89
Add Energy Ball : Critchance = 89 + 12 = 101
Add Crit By TP with 9TP : Critchance = 101 + 18 = 119

Then taking ennemy's stat :
Critchance = 119 - 25 = 94
Critchance = 94 - 74/16 = 90

And add Analyse :
Critchance = 90 + 8 = 98

Correct me if I'm wrong Prae.

And now just for reference even without calculate the damage add by Crit just with the buff/Debuff/gear we have :

Power Up with Trials Buffs = x 2
Crit Helm = x1.25
Protect Down = x1.25
Ice Saber = x1.5
Undine Day = x1.125
Hawk LUK Capstone = x1.2

So if I'm not mistaking we have a 6,328125 Damage Multiplier here everytime Hawk Crit and this isn't counting the +10% Attack from Saber and the Damage added by the Crit.
That's pretty insane to put it lightly, altough it is quite satisfy to give ennemies a take of their own medicine (Mobs's crit is absurd sometime) this might need a nerf here.

As for Duran and Kevin, well Trials set on a support character like Lord is pretty good quality of life MP Steal is a good way to maintain his MP, Kevin's VIT capstone doesn't seem to work or at least not as good as a Shield, but his immunity to Statut Effect with Tinkle Rain come out pretty convenient.

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23 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

Critchance = 25 x 2 + 8 + 31 = 89

where do you get 8+31 from?
I see 20 from weapon, 3 from ring, 8 from helm; that is the 31 but where's the 8 from?

Its too much either way.
Really, I leave you alone for a couple of days and you break the game again.

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The 8 is the character bonus which is 8 for Hawk.

To be fair I think this is only broken due to Hawk's LUK capstone, if Xian Bhe had his base 100 resistance that would be no crit (or just the 8% from Detect since it apply after), I would suggest reduce it's effect to just halving monster specific resistance instead of straight remove it, also the Damage +20% on it is to much.

Edited by Nesouk

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I think that wouldn't change much; you have like 100 crit rate before monster specific resistance which for most is 15 or less, so you'd still have 85% at the least even without the capstone.

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Well definitly there's one thing that should be nerf the Crit By TP weapon, even without taking the bonus added by TP that weapon has already 20 Crit Rate which is the highest out of any weapon, adding the bonus it goes up for 38 from this weapon alone, making it pretty much the undisputed best weapon for Crit Build, Pure Critical and Yellow or Bust which are second has 18 Crit Rate which is 2% up 20% less Crit Rate, this isn't even factoring that Pure Critical and Yellow or Bust have drawbacks (the former prevent TP generation which is pretty big deal especially since 2.0 and items costing TP, the later make all non-crit/tech attack deal 1 damage and it also has a lower Crit Bonus than Crit By TP) while Crit By TP has pretty much no drawback, the only other weapon I would considere over it for a Crit Build is the Yellow Damage Heal which works pretty well when you have High Luck and good crit rate.

Other than that the other thing I can see is reducing the Luck factor like currently with 25 Luck, Luck x 2 alread makes it a 50% critchance and if I max out out Luck with Ninja Master that would be 32 x 2 so 64% Crit Rate from Luck alone, I think you can reduce the x2 factor or even go ahead and remove it, without the x2 with the rest being unmodify that would still give me a 64 base critchance instead of 89, which would end up as a 73% Crit Rate at the end of the calc instead of 98%.

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I think the main problem is more the limited range I can work with (0-100 scale) while also needing +luck investment to be worth it without crits being non-existant at lv1.

Maybe we should try something like changing the
crit rate out of 100 to
crit rate out of (70+3x target luck)
so if you have 90% chance there now it'd drop to 90/(70+3x25) = 62%

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Pretty easy actually; game calculates you crit rate and then draws a random number between 0 and 100 (RNG function takes values as parameter for range) so I would only need to change the 100

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Well then that could work watching the numbers on doc that would mean on LV99 ennemy with 28 LUK at best Hawk with LUK Capstone as a Rogue (highest Max LUK with 33) with same set up I have here would get a 70% Crit Rate, still high but considering this is fully committed to Crit that's fair, other characters having to take into account the Crit Resistance from monster should end up in the 50% range.

Edited by Nesouk

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I'm having a lot of fun now playing a Rogue, Vanadis, Archmage team. I just hit my final class change and am looking forward to finally learning Heal Light in a few levels. With Hawk's PIE capstone, this team gets a boost from previous versions of the game with access to sabers. Vanadis will also get Flame Saber as well that I can use for saber-resistance. Access to all buffs/debuffs will be really nice. The point of this team is to do a ton of elemental damage, physical or magical. I have not fleshed out my endgame equipment, but right now Hawk is loving the Crit by TP weapon with the TP Gain Up ring.

Spells to miss: Silver Dart and Speed Up for Rogue, Holy Ball and Thunder Saber for Vanadis, and either Anti-Magic and Rainbow Dust or Body Change and Aura Wave for Arch Mage. I will probably take Aura Wave though due to it's usefulness in several difficult fights.

Capstones: PIE for Rogue, undecided for the other two. Archmage's LUK capstone is looking really nice to add some more physical damage to my team. For Vanadis, I really have no idea and would welcome suggestions.

I'm playing this time Deathless on Normal, which brings its own sort of challenge. So far, the hardest boss has been Machine Robos x3 - keeping everyone alive requires a bit of luck. My strategy was to charge in, group them immediately with Hawk, and keep them stunned as much as possible by constantly quick-attack double-swinging with a Wind Ring while having my other two team members cast as much as possible to keep them away. Apart from this boss, Bill and Ben are always pretty tough, and the others have been a breeze. The next boss is Lugar - expecting no problem after casting Flame Saber on him with Element Guard armor, Protect Up, Power Down.

Deathless on Tough or Hard (single-player) - I'm not sure how I would pass some of these multi-boss battles except by letting my team members die and reviving them right before the end of the battle.

On 11/20/2021 at 5:52 AM, Nesouk said:

So if I'm not mistaking we have a 6,328125 Damage Multiplier here everytime Hawk Crit and this isn't counting the +10% Attack from Saber and the Damage added by the Crit.

Loved your video, Nesouk, and it's good to see that you are still finding ways to break the game :-)

Edited by rpschamp

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Also, I'm interested in the Death Resist ring for my Deathless run. I'm confused by the item description in the Excel file: "Death Spell immunity for wearer; party gets resistance to Death Spell". What is the difference between Death Spell immunity and resistance, and is this different from the normal "Resist Death" (e.g. that you get with Undead armor)?

Edited by rpschamp

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45 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

it's good to see that you are still finding ways to break the game :-)

and make me cry :(

44 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Also, I'm interested in the Death Resist ring for my Deathless run. I'm confused by the item description in the Excel file: "Death Spell immunity for wearer; party gets resistance to Death Spell". What is the difference between Death Spell immunity and resistance, and is this different from the normal "Resist Death" (e.g. that you get with Undead armor)?

immunity = 0 damage
resistance = it deals damage like a normal spell instead of 999

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40 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

immunity = 0 damage
resistance = it deals damage like a normal spell instead of 999

Would the Death Resist ring protect against Death Roulette, or would you need a normal Resist Death item like the Undead armor for that?

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On 12/01/2022 at 8:52 PM, rpschamp said:

I'm having a lot of fun now playing a Rogue, Vanadis, Archmage team. I just hit my final class change and am looking forward to finally learning Heal Light in a few levels. With Hawk's PIE capstone, this team gets a boost from previous versions of the game with access to sabers. Vanadis will also get Flame Saber as well that I can use for saber-resistance. Access to all buffs/debuffs will be really nice. The point of this team is to do a ton of elemental damage, physical or magical. I have not fleshed out my endgame equipment, but right now Hawk is loving the Crit by TP weapon with the TP Gain Up ring.

Spells to miss: Silver Dart and Speed Up for Rogue, Holy Ball and Thunder Saber for Vanadis, and either Anti-Magic and Rainbow Dust or Body Change and Aura Wave for Arch Mage. I will probably take Aura Wave though due to it's usefulness in several difficult fights.

Capstones: PIE for Rogue, undecided for the other two. Archmage's LUK capstone is looking really nice to add some more physical damage to my team. For Vanadis, I really have no idea and would welcome suggestions.

I really should try a team with Rogue, as for Lise capstone well ince you're skipping Holy Ball and Thunder Saber tha mean no investment in LUK so the LUK Capstone is out of the question, don't see much use for the INT capstone in this configuration, so I would go either VIT Capstone tough I'm not sure if a 15 Attack reduction would have a lot of impact or the AGL capstone which would be good to attack faster (especially for Hawk).

As for Archmage yeah could skip Anti-Magic and Rainbow Dust to Aura Wave can be really usefull to get an item fast if you ever need it of fill Rogue's TP faster to maximize Crit By TP effect, that being said her AGL Capstone could be interesting as the team may have to cast quite a lot (especially Angela and Lise), would be interesting if her AGL Capstone could allow Vanadis to cast faster Freya with her Final Weapon to allow Vanadis to exploit elemental weakness with Hawk's Sabers.

On 12/01/2022 at 8:52 PM, rpschamp said:

I'm playing this time Deathless on Normal, which brings its own sort of challenge. So far, the hardest boss has been Machine Robos x3 - keeping everyone alive requires a bit of luck. My strategy was to charge in, group them immediately with Hawk, and keep them stunned as much as possible by constantly quick-attack double-swinging with a Wind Ring while having my other two team members cast as much as possible to keep them away. Apart from this boss, Bill and Ben are always pretty tough, and the others have been a breeze. The next boss is Lugar - expecting no problem after casting Flame Saber on him with Element Guard armor, Protect Up, Power Down.

Deathless on Tough or Hard (single-player) - I'm not sure how I would pass some of these multi-boss battles except by letting my team members die and reviving them right before the end of the battle.

Well for Bil and Ben in 2.0 Evasion works really well, if you can stack a lot of Evasion Speed Up and Speed Down you're going to evade like crazy, and with TP on Dodge armor you'd have access to items pretty frequently and can set party members on using LV1 Tech to land counter to reduce their Revenge Value and trigger less Shadow Dives, there is some RNG tough as it depend of what Jutsu they uses against you, also having a Slime's Eye or 2 to reduce their attack power is welcome to if you don't have Ninja Hawk (who's in 2.0 is the only class 2 to have access to Power Down though his Spell with Water Jutsu) as Lise's Rune Maiden lost it.

Machine Golems are a pain in the ass tough, on Hard I always found it safer to just solo them with one character by focusing on landing counter with the Break Counter accessory, some items to handle the buff/debuff and just revive my party member when only one of them remain.

Quote

Loved your video, Nesouk, and it's good to see that you are still finding ways to break the game :-)

I'd rather not to be honnest, just like I'd love to stop running into glitches and stuff that doesn't work properly just for Praetarius's sanity ^^", but this game is SD3 unfortunatly after spending probably hundreds of hours into playing this mod, it's clear to me that this game just do whatever the fuck he wants to do sometime xD

Edited by Nesouk

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On 1/22/2022 at 12:45 PM, Nesouk said:

I really should try a team with Rogue, as for Lise capstone well ince you're skipping Holy Ball and Thunder Saber tha mean no investment in LUK so the LUK Capstone is out of the question, don't see much use for the INT capstone in this configuration, so I would go either VIT Capstone tough I'm not sure if a 15 Attack reduction would have a lot of impact or the AGL capstone which would be good to attack faster (especially for Hawk).

As for Archmage yeah could skip Anti-Magic and Rainbow Dust to Aura Wave can be really usefull to get an item fast if you ever need it of fill Rogue's TP faster to maximize Crit By TP effect, that being said her AGL Capstone could be interesting as the team may have to cast quite a lot (especially Angela and Lise), would be interesting if her AGL Capstone could allow Vanadis to cast faster Freya with her Final Weapon to allow Vanadis to exploit elemental weakness with Hawk's Sabers.

Rogue is my favorite Hawk class to lead with: his spells come out fast so no need to switch characters when casting, his high LUC stat is great for treasure hunting, his build is simple with no real need for INT, and his ability to hit against physical defense with his spells is a great asset when you need it (e.g., Seashore Cave mini-boss). You also get great mileage out of his LUC stat for spell damage, spell bonus damage, and crit chance/damage. Plus his Level 3 super gets a random color which is fun and helps to break up the visual monotony.

I think I've decided on the LUC capstone for Angela. AGI would be nice, but 20% reduction just doesn't seem that game-changing to me. The LUC capstone lets Angela ignore STR and improve her physical damage with all weapons, crit chance/damage, and magical damage with one stat. There are some battles where damage casting is just not helpful, so this should help give the Archmage class more of a role when she would otherwise just be swinging for tech points. This also helps her with two of my favorite weapons in the game: YellowDMG Heal and Crit by TP.

For Lise, I will probably go for her AGI capstone as it seems more useful than the VIT one in the longterm: -15 attack should become less useful at higher levels as hit points and attack values increase, while -7 weapon cooldown should be useful as long as cooldown values are 7 or above, which I'm guessing should always be true?

On 1/22/2022 at 12:45 PM, Nesouk said:

Well for Bil and Ben in 2.0 Evasion works really well, if you can stack a lot of Evasion Speed Up and Speed Down you're going to evade like crazy, and with TP on Dodge armor you'd have access to items pretty frequently and can set party members on using LV1 Tech to land counter to reduce their Revenge Value and trigger less Shadow Dives, there is some RNG tough as it depend of what Jutsu they uses against you, also having a Slime's Eye or 2 to reduce their attack power is welcome to if you don't have Ninja Hawk (who's in 2.0 is the only class 2 to have access to Power Down though his Spell with Water Jutsu) as Lise's Rune Maiden lost it.

I want to like the TP on Dodge armor more, but the defense is so low, especially when the alternative is High Defense armor, so when you do get hit with a string of attacks or a super you can be quickly screwed.

On 1/22/2022 at 12:45 PM, Nesouk said:

Machine Golems are a pain in the ass tough, on Hard I always found it safer to just solo them with one character by focusing on landing counter with the Break Counter accessory, some items to handle the buff/debuff and just revive my party member when only one of them remain.

This strategy is also great for Lugar - counters seem to slow him down and really help keep his damage in check. I have no idea what his listed weakness - "special magic" - means, non-elemental magic perhaps? For me, his weakness has always been counters.

Edited by rpschamp

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3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

This strategy is also great for Lugar - counters seem to slow him down and really help keep his damage in check. I have no idea what his listed weakness - "special magic" - means, non-elemental magic perhaps? For me, his weakness has always been counters.

Lugar is one of the easiest boss for me since the update that made Counter "bypass" physical defense, since he is always attacking landing Counter is super easy, and an evasion build with TP on Dodge works wonder on him (whereas it doesn't work on Machine Golem as they have a lot of unavoidable attack) and setting the AI of all party members to use LV1 Tech, and he should never get the Revenge Heal, and barely use any techs due to all the counters. Is even easier if you use a Specter's Eye.

3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I want to like the TP on Dodge armor more, but the defense is so low, especially when the alternative is High Defense armor, so when you do get hit with a string of attacks or a super you can be quickly screwed.

Depend of the fight for Bil and Ben and Lugar, I wasn't to bother with the low Defense, High Defense armor is really great early on tough, it lose potency later due to flat defense being less impactfull, but I remember having a super tank Duran that Bil and Ben's first fight couldn't deal more than 10 damage per hit XD.

3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Rogue is my favorite Hawk class to lead with: his spells come out fast so no need to switch characters when casting, his high LUC stat is great for treasure hunting, his build is simple with no real need for INT, and his ability to hit against physical defense with his spells is a great asset when you need it (e.g., Seashore Cave mini-boss). You also get great mileage out of his LUC stat for spell damage, spell bonus damage, and crit chance/damage. Plus his Level 3 super gets a random color which is fun and helps to break up the visual monotony.

Honnestly Hawk is just my favorite character as an all, all his classes offer something unique and have different build options, I'm never tired to play him, I do have a preference for his Dark Classes tough personnaly, but Wanderer's support is really great and Rogue is definitly a force to be recognize.

4 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I think I've decided on the LUC capstone for Angela. AGI would be nice, but 20% reduction just doesn't seem that game-changing to me. The LUC capstone lets Angela ignore STR and improve her physical damage with all weapons, crit chance/damage, and magical damage with one stat. There are some battles where damage casting is just not helpful, so this should help give the Archmage class more of a role when she would otherwise just be swinging for tech points. This also helps her with two of my favorite weapons in the game: YellowDMG Heal and Crit by TP.

For Lise, I will probably go for her AGI capstone as it seems more useful than the VIT one in the longterm: -15 attack should become less useful at higher levels as hit points and attack values increase, while -7 weapon cooldown should be useful as long as cooldown values are 7 or above, which I'm guessing should always be true?

Yeah probably the better choice overall, I think Angela's AGL capstone is really a good one personnaly, even more if you have character with spells that have a long casttime, the LUC capstone looks promising tough.

As for Lise really don't know how impactfull tge -15 attack would be, but in any case I think given this team AGL capstone is probably the best choice here.

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