Palidor and Fenrir

[Nerocrossius 0]

The only change that really saddened me in the transition from 1.9 to 2.0 was that Palidor and Fenrir got swapped. I understand that this happened for various good mechanical reasons, but I believe it hurt the small thematic connections the two espers had to the world.

Fenrir was originally obtained in Mobliz after your first visit there as a reward from the children for fighting off Phunbaba. The fact you get the wolf/dog esper from Mobliz is thematically tied to how the only defenses the town has in WoR are Terra and a bunch of dogs. The dog motif occurs several times in the few interactions in Mobliz, so getting a dog esper there has always felt very fitting to me.

Palidor was originally obtained on the beach area south of Cid's house on the isolated island. The magicite appears there the next time the party visits the area and it rests in the same place that the bird sat with Celes after the events of Cid dying. I always found it interesting that this random bird was able to "save" Celes and that it happened to have a bandana from Locke to inspire her to live. Locke mentions nothing of giving his bandana to a bird, so it just seems like a random FF6 plot hole (one of many to be honest). But if that bird was a super magical bird esper that was trying to motivate Celes with its last ounces of energy before turning to magicite than it is quite fitting that you find the bird esper in that place later on. 

In BNW post 2.0 the children of Mobliz now give you the Palidor esper (which is a huge help to Edgar in the early sections of WoR) and you now find Fenrir on the beach of the isolated island. Thematically, it seems so random now that the Mobliz children have a bird esper and that the wolf/dog esper is on some island.

My purposed solution would be for Fenrir to effectively become Palidor: +1 Vig +1 Spd, Palidor's spell list and auto haste equip effect, Fenrir would still set image on the party and would only be usable by Edgar and Mog. This would allow Fenrir to accomplish all the same desired mechanical work and be properly retrieved in Mobliz for the thematic element. The only mechanical change would be that Edgar and Mog get a mass party image esper instead of a party jump esper. The only thematic change would be that it's potentially strange for a dog to teach the float spell... but if stray cat is teaching float then why can't a dog at this point? 

Palidor would then become +2 spd, Fenrir's spell list and +10 evade equip effect, the summon ability would still be a party jump and it would only be usable by Gau and Shadow. Again, mechanically the only change would be that Shadow and Gau lose party blink and gain party jump. I actually think this is an interesting, albeit minor, mechanical change since it would allow some jump strategies in a party that doesn't have one of the dragoons. Shadow and Gau already have other ways to set image so the loss of party blink is not a huge blow.

I understand that BNW is basically almost finished (despite being in 2.1 development for a year) and that 99% of people wouldn't care about this thematic change, but I still think it's valuable enough to mention at least. Vanilla didn't do a lot of things right, but it seems counter to BNW's design philosophy to take one of the few thematic and reasonable things from Vanilla and get rid of it for a minor mechanical change. 

I appreciate anyone's time reading this and a big thank you to the developers and coders that make this wonderful mod possible. I've played it several times every year since 2014 and it's brought a ton of joy to me!

[BTB 353]

This wasn't a change from 1.9 to 2.0; it's been in BNW since 1.0.

[thzfunnymzn 87]

It is a thematic loss that Edgar & Mog, you're two Dragoons, would no longer have Palidor "whole party Jumps", but I guess I see the point with Fenrir belonging to Mobliz, Palidor belonging to the island.

[Nerocrossius 0]

On 7/10/2021 at 5:47 AM, BTB said:

This wasn't a change from 1.9 to 2.0; it's been in BNW since 1.0.

Hmmm, I thought it occurred in 2.0, been too long since I played 1.9 I guess... Either way, the thematic point stands. I understand that it's probably too ingrained at this point to change though.

14 hours ago, thzfunnymzn said:

It is a thematic loss that Edgar & Mog, you're two Dragoons, would no longer have Palidor "whole party Jumps", but I guess I see the point with Fenrir belonging to Mobliz, Palidor belonging to the island.

I don't really see how it's a thematic loss there. Isn't it redundancy for dragoons to have a jump esper? Wouldn't it be like saying that Stray should only be accessible to RegenX users?  

[thzfunnymzn 87]

11 hours ago, Nerocrossius said:

I don't really see how it's a thematic loss there. Isn't it redundancy for dragoons to have a jump esper? Wouldn't it be like saying that Stray should only be accessible to RegenX users?

I think the idea is that Palidor isn't really a "good" esper, tactically speaking. "Whole party jumps" is there for the memes, lulz, flavor, and glitches. Since it's not a serious esper, it just makes more sense on Edgar and Mog anyways. Also, for what little use "Whole party jumps" does have, Edgar and Mog are still the best users of it. So ... makes most sense on them.

Palidor was an AoE physical in earlier versions. Not the greatest and more boring, but at least it had an actual use in giving Mogoon an AoE random clearer. Still wouldn't be useful on Shadow; he's got Shurikens and Ninja Scrolls. Gau, maybe, technically, maybe could get similar results to Mog with that version of Palidor. Maybe.

Either way though, the Fenrir summon (Image on whole party) is much more useful, and Shadow/Gau being able to open a boss fight with Fenrir -> HasteX is an old, entrenched strategy. Also, Fenrir is redundant with Edgar's Golem, while Mog technically can dance Desert Aria. Mind you, Desert Aria's a crummy way to try and set Image, but I guess it's technically there; so if we want Mog to be able to set Image more reliably, the way to do it would simply be to fiddle with Desert Aria.

---

I don't disagree with you on the aesthetics of Palidor on Lonely Island, Fenrir from Mobliz. But you'd have to swap their summon effects alongside everything else (esper equip bonus, esper level up bonus, magic learned) in order for it to work with how BNW's been set-up. Mechanically possible; aesthetically, you gain what you've been talking about just to lose with Fenrir causing the party to jump. Guess you could try and make Fenrir into a physical AoE again while Palidor gives Image. That's ... if you tweak the animations, you could make it seem appropriate on Fenrir and Palidor. But then you lose the "Whole party jumps" lulz flavor in exchange for a "more boring" and admittedly niche AoE physical; so, you'd, again, lose some aesthetically, on top of it being just a straight up unpopular change with some crowds.

So .... no real "winning" option aesthetically, unfortunately.