Sega Chief

New FF8 Mod (New Threat) - Discussion Thread

49 posts in this topic

I have an alternate suggestion, though I'm not sure it's possible to code easily. Make it a blend of the ff1 + ff8 system.

Let there be a certain cap on how many stores of each spell a person can have, and let those spells be replenished after battle. They would either be restored outside of battle or with resting, either would be fine. If the cap is low enough this still allows for there to be a purpose to using the draw ability in battle. (I'm imagining either the ff1 9 max cap or perhaps even 5 if spells are restored outside of battle). The caps could increase either linked to level (ie lvl at <10 only able to store 1-2 lvl 1 spells, lvl <20 2-3 lvl 1, 1-2 lvl 2, etc.) or linked to drawing certain spells (ie drawing thundara grants a cast of thundara and an extra cast of thunder). The spell bonuses would obviously be adjusted to be proportional. This may require disabling the trading magic function to make any sense.  

I'm somewhat unfamiliar with how ff8 handles spell consumption, but it would add a bit of strategy if using one of your only spells reduced the associated stat drastically.

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Really interested in this mod project. Any updates? New videos? Anything?

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Hey Segachief,

I just finished your FF7 New Threat mod and LOVED it. I can't describe how excited I am about FF8 getting the same treatment.

I'm really curious to see / hear what you're doing about balancing junctioning and card mod since they are both obviously super over powered. Also, please change how drawing functions. As much as I love FF8, there is nothing more boring than staying in a fight I don't like drawing for like an hour just to get 300 of a spell that I then cannot use because it will lower my stats.

Someone else already mentioned making junctioning weighted towards the lower end of the spectrum (i.e. getting like 60% of the benefit at 20 spells). I think thats an awesome idea. May I also suggest having the benefit top out at 60, leaving people with up to 40 instances of the spell to use for free before it starts affecting your character a little bit. 

Story wise, I don't have a suggestion as much as a request. Any chance you can make it "cannon" that Ultimicia is Rinoa in the future because Squall dies at the end leaving her alone in a world torn apart by time compression? (Its my favourite interpretation of the game).

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Update on current progress, a demo of the Alpha build is currently out with a few people for initial testing; a public release of the demo will be out soon once technical and balancing problems are sorted out.

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Could you alleviate the pressure to immediately draw 100 of everything by limiting the number of spells that you can draw from each enemy?  Grinders gonna grind, but at least this way it's more like EXP in that it will build up slowly over the course of a dungeon if you're not explicitly grinding.  Of course, it would probably have the issue of making the player even more reluctant to actually cast things.

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What about removing the absorbed spell from Draw list? like when you do it with GF... so that you also have to decide whether to cast free spells or stack some of it(mostly before landing the final blow)

Monsters basically become living Draw sources packs

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FF8 being really close to my heart despite its flaws, I find this project to truly be a godsend. Especially after Segachief already sexed up FF7 to such remarkable heights, I can't help but count days until this thing becomes a reality. 

I'm really curious as to the current gameplan/verdict on some of the more fundamental aspects and mechanics of the game.. 

Is the current plan, or more profoundly, the starting point and philosophy of the mod more along the lines of: 

           -Attempting to preserve some of the more unique aspects of FF8 and bringing attention&focus on balancing said aspects or.. 

           -Creating whole new systems/taking a merciless axe to the mechanics that made the game "broken" in the first place and then implement something entirely original and/or tried&true in their place?

For context, here's some of the more interesting aspects about the systems and how they could contribute to the game, were they working as intended...

1. Junction system (=Giving players freedom to spec the characters&the strategic choice of using spells in favor of the stats they yield and vice versa)

2. Limit Breaks (=The option to go for a high risk, high reward playstyle&the possibility of Limit Breaks happening more often due to crisis system, giving way to challenge runs such as only Limit Breaks)

3. Refinement&Card Mod system (=An alluring option for old school Farmaniacs such as myself, high amounts of one item refines to better ones&the obvious benefits of Triple Triad and card collecting[though none of this should be mandatory, just a bonus/alternative method for those who want to indulge])

4. Drawing magic (=To risk it and draw high level magic from a hard boss, or not to risk it and draw high level magic from a hard boss? Sadly, this is about as far as this mechanic can go as-is.)

5. GFs... Well, this is one I never much cared for in FF8. How they worked, that is. I suppose them unlocking stuff is neat, but it'd be more strategic if they only unlocked a few stats, for example, so you'd have to think which ones you want junctioned&buffed for each character instead of being able to buff every stat for everyone.

Anyways those are some of the things that make FF8 what it is, methinks, and differentiate it from the rest of the series. Personally I hope you've opted for retaining the uniqueness, however unbalanced the systems might've been and simply work to realize those intended goals in a more successful way than the original game. 

 

 

Edited by Hapanpappa
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I have a proposed solution for Zell's limit break (This is assuming you keep the one limit per battle rule) 

 each combo he does could either debuff the enemy's stats or buff his so he can adapt to the fight,

he is a martial artist after all so it fits with his theme to learn an enemies weakness as he fights and to adapt his fighting technique so for instance

punch rush could increase Zells speed by 5% or debuff the enemy Speed by 5%  ( I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass for an example )

It depends on balance whether he buffs his own stats for the rest of the fight or debuffs the enemy, both themes fit, he is making himself more capable by adapting

or

He is exploiting the enemy in such a way to weaken it for the party 

This would  give incentive to not just booyah spam and for the sake of balance you could nerf the damage of those attacks given the stat component to them 

You could also increase the stat bonus for high level combos like final heaven to reduce enemy Vitality by a % or flat number , or give the buff to Zell if that's too strong 

There could be a mix such as half the moves debuff the enemy and the other half buff Zell as he has more combo's than there are stats and some stats may be too strong

to debuff on certain bosses.

 

 

 

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Just out of curiosity Segachief,

How are you finding working with FF8's code in comparison to FF7's? Does the code look like a natural progression from FF7? Is it completely different?

My understanding is that the games were worked on concurrently, so I'm not sure how much overlap exists between them. That being said, FF8 seems far more....not a pile of glitches held together with duct tape than FF7 is.

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i think in this mod will have a way to bring Edea and Seifer back to the party becuse the slot missing on the party selection and expended events like Edea coming with you to the lunar base on space that would be awsome instead of leaving her at esthar think in some way to Edea to become a permanent party member like the party on vanilla a cast 6 is too small do like expand the cast like Edea Seifer laguna ward and kiros to be on the permant party to give more variety to the party selection that would be pretty awsome to put on your mod did someone think like this too?

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On 2/23/2018 at 0:32 PM, Rafael duque said:

i think in this mod will have a way to bring Edea and Seifer back to the party becuse the slot missing on the party selection and expended events like Edea coming with you to the lunar base on space that would be awsome instead of leaving her at esthar think in some way to Edea to become a permanent party member like the party on vanilla a cast 6 is too small do like expand the cast like Edea Seifer laguna ward and kiros to be on the permant party to give more variety to the party selection that would be pretty awsome to put on your mod did someone think like this too?

 

Having Seifer rejoin the party before Ultimecia's Castle is what SHOULD have happened in the main game and if it was in this mod, I would instantly love it, regardless of any other alteration.

 

 

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8 hours ago, Nikkolas said:

 

Having Seifer rejoin the party before Ultimecia's Castle is what SHOULD have happened in the main game and if it was in this mod, I would instantly love it, regardless of any other alteration.

 

 

I think Edea has to rejoin too like you can have the opition to take her with you she can go to the lunar base with squall and like she can be at the ragnarok to be permanent party menber like she can say i dont have my sorcerres powers but i can still fight along with you that would be nice. you are thinking Laguna kiros and ward can go too?

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1 hour ago, Rafael duque said:

I think Edea has to rejoin too like you can have the opition to take her with you she can go to the lunar base with squall and like she can be at the ragnarok to be permanent party menber like she can say i dont have my sorcerres powers but i can still fight along with you that would be nice. you are thinking Laguna kiros and ward can go too?

 

Hm, I dunno. FFVIII's narrative is not the best unfortunately. I really feel like Adel should have been the main villain because then it really connects the struggles of Laguna's group with the modern heroes', ya know? With Adel as the Big Bad, bringing Laguna along to finally totally defeat his old nemesis would be very rewarding, just like how bringing Seifer and/or Edea to defeat Ultimecia would be the logical conclusions of their character arcs.

 

But Laguna has no real connection to Ultimecia so the story element would seem ab it less climactic, ya know?

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i understand i think he will revise the script like squall dont be dumbass most of the game and like he open his feelings more to his friends like at the begining with quistis talking about her demission and squall conforting the story of the game is confusing i think he will fix that like more laguna dreams to explain more of the past and ellone and how squall and company end got arested some history elements i like to see on the mod that dont have in vanilla to explain more and why rinoa comatose status happend they dont explain this i would like to see

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That's literally the point of Squall's character arc, dude. That's like complaining about Cloud just trying to copy Zack - no shit, that's the point.

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So if you don't have it, there is a Steam sale going on right now and you can pick up FF8PC for $6.

http://store.steampowered.com/agecheck/app/39150/

Between this and SC saying there will be a build released to the public so much sooner than I ever dared to hope (I was expecting like, a year or two) i am very happy.

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If you plan on making any changes to the script or adding new scenes, you should totally make Ultimecia be future-Rinoa, it's legitimately more interesting than her just being some sorceress.

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Posted (edited)

It's a gameplay not story mod if he add scene it will be for the sake of new quest or new stuff 'and by the way Square confirm Ultimecia is not Rinoa), by the way how about making Edea as a permanent party member ?

Edited by Nesouk
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Hey Sega Chief,

I played through your New Threats remake (for the most part) of Final Fantasy 7 and I was very impressed. I had a lot of fun figuring out the little tricks and secrets that ,ade your remake both fun and challenging.
I was actually inspired to eventually make a jrpg game of my own (using something like rpg maker), but right now I lack the time and resources to even remotely consider such an undertaking on my own, so I've decided to just dump my ideas here in the hopes that some might help you out. FF8s junction system is one of my favorites ever for a classic rpg. I actually have 3 absolute favorites, and all three of them are from Final Fantasy. The job system from 5 (never played tactics), Materia from 7 and Junction from 8. I thought all of these were unique and very creative, and so when I did my own brainstorming, I considered a plausible way to combine the three that is in no way over-the-top, and still practical. 

this message system doesn't allow me to attach a word doc, so I'll just copy and past the contents below:
 

Junction system for stats
Job system for character growth, abilities, magic etc.
All magics are generally available throughout the world like in FF8, but you can only make use of a type of magic/ability that your job allows, but you can still junction any magic to any stat at any time regardless of whether or not you can use it.
For example:
My guy is a barbarian job ATM, but barbarians can't naturally use any magics. So I'll take all of the magics he has (fire, cure, wind, etc.) and junction them to his various stats. Meanwhile learning his multi-attack ability that he'll be able to use with future jobs. So this is helpful when he has a very high strength stat and pummels his enemy into the dirt with multi-attacks, which offsets his inability to learn magic.

Each job has default abilities that allow it to be unique, such as "cast ELM Magic" as a Green mage. However, each of those abilities can become available for equip once the job is maxed out.
So if my main character has just made it to level 10 of green mage (effectively reaching max level) aside from obtaining the 4xCast ability which allows him to cast any given spell 4 times, he also gains the basic "cast magic" ability which can be used to endow a warrior class (such as barbarian) with the ability to cast spells.

I might also incorporate equippable accessories as well (as the only kind of equipment) which, among other more basic things, might give an ability like "Swap ATK with MAG" which would allow a fighter to use his spellcasting stat in place of his strength stat, and in the case of having the above mentioned "cast magic" ability equipped, can treat his physical attacks like spells and vice-versa. A combination such as this could be overwhelmingly powerful, as a barbarian can already attack up to four times in a row. This combined with the above attachments can equal a round of 16 attacks in a row. But such a thing would be considered "advanced gameplay" and would only be available toward the end of the game. Such tricka would be highly necessary however for secret bosses as they would otherwise be nigh-impossible to kill.


Also, if I made a New-file plus, then I could make such builds even more relevant and call it a "nightmare mode" by making previously chumpy bosses into some seriously terrifying badasses that are just ridiculous to kill.

Junctioning could become increasingly useful as the game progresses, but also increasingly challenging to manage, but in a fun way. Because, where yes, you can equip a certain kind of magic to certain stats and status attacks and defenses, you also deplete your reserves as you cast them. So, for instance, if I am a red-mage, and specializing in time and status magics, then having a high MAG ATK stat wouldn't be as relevant as it would be for a Green Mage. And I could use the Fira magics that I had equipped to my ATK stat from when he was a Knight, and deplete my reserves in order to deal damage to my enemies.




hit me up with any questions, as I'll be happy to help. and good luck on the mod!

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oh, also, I do have one direct recommendation for FF8. please make it so that you can syphon a MINIMUM of like 9ish magics from a given creature (not a pool though) so you aren't stuck in battle for 20 minutes using the same command over and over.

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