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1 hour ago, Mishrak said:

Stickied. I shoulda done this sooner. 

I consider this an official endorsement :kappa:
V5 output, while re-reading @thzfunnymzn playthrough I saw he had reported ELs claiming they gave more HP than they do.

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No, they give the reported HP. I'm just agreeing with Deschain that it should be reverted to normal, since double enemy speed is bad enough.

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OK, so, before heading into Mt. Zozo, let's actually grind up magic points for Setzer and Relm so that they actually have their WoR magics. Which means killing Doom Gaze and obtaining Heiji's Coin.

Heiji's Coin was simple. Setzer just cast regen on himself and slowly wittled the foe down with Dice. Think I had Seraph equipped for some sort of immunity, and that was it.

As for Doom Gaze, I took Umaro, vig Mog, mag Strago, and HP/MP Terra

mag Strago was really just there for support. Considered Gogo to have a Chakra and a spare Life 2 user, but I don't need Chakra for Doom Gaze and he's got too little MP for Life 2. (Probably still would've been a fine choice though). Managed to get some use out of the Sage Stone with X-Slow and X-Shell. No damage though. (X-Ice2 was his best option, at 2800 damage to the 4k+ everyone else was doing).

Got a nice Tritoch summon with Terra for 7k+ damage (to Fire 3's 4k+). Also, Life 2 proved useful when Doom decided to laugh at my characters. She also dodged two bullets (Aero and Bolt 2) after being revived at 1 HP from eating her own Doom.

vig Mog did vig Mog stuff. Flew around in the sky with a flaming spear, did damage, got wrecked with Bolt damage, got used as a battering ram by Umaro for 9999, etc, etc. Mog stuff.

Umaro face tanked everything, did Bodyguard stuff once, and threw a few characters for big damage.

***

Grinded Setzer and Relm up, so when I next play, its Mt. Zozo time. Complete with killing the Wind Dragon.

Umaro's nice right now. Halved effectiveness on HP espers means his HP advantage is unchallenged. Also, his level advantage is a lot more useful when things are harder.

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Went into Mt. Zozo with spd Gau, stam Edgar, mag Relm, stam Setzer. Levels 24, 23, 21, 21 respectively.

Crushed randoms with status and AoE. Ran from Colossus though.

Wind Dragon was a slow fight, though I still won it comfortably in my first try. Gau raged Dragon, Relm & Setzer danced between supporting with heal / Rerise and attacking with Flare / GP Rain (and needed lots of MP support). Edgar pretended to be mag Edgar, lul.

I....summoned Fenrir. Saved Gau & Relm the first few times, but then Edgar's Image never dissipated, so he was never able to Cover Gau or Relm. Had Palidor equipped, so no Golem summon. Oops? Still won, but it meant that Edgar's main use never came into play. Also, magic attacks chew through Edgar's HP rather quickly. Tbf, he didn't die, unlike everyone else.

Relm died in one hit to Wind Claw counters. Should've gone and gained more levels with her. Flare isn't as strong as I remember; about same power as GP Toss. I presume I've been doing something wrong in my recent games for Flare to feel so weak. Either that or its the low level really weighing her down. Also forgot to learn RegenX before the fight. Oops. She spent a decent deal of time healing with Osmose, though only for 96 MP a pop.

Setzer healed, threw money (ouch, my wallet!), spammed RegenX, and occasionally used Rerise and Bio. Had to be supported with a Mana Battery. Useful, though I wish I had more GP so I didn't feel so bad using GP Toss.

Gau clocked Wind Dragon upside the head for 4400 a pop with his Rage, much more than Relm's & Setzer's 2800. Also moved much faster than them, so despite the random Glares, he was definitely my dps here. (Snow Muffler and a higher level helps a lot though). Seriously, Bone Club is absurd once its obtained. Hurtmore and Umaro are easily my strongest attacks right now, to a little bit of a ridiculous degree. (But Gau balance is another topic of discussion entirely, and we're all ready busy with stamina discussion over in the other topic).

***

Next up is clearing Cyan's Soul. Going to actually grind up in the FT first for ELs and Levels. I am so not doing Cyan's Soul at levels in the low 20's. Afterwards, I'm esper resetting Edgar (to magic), Sabin (to Terrato), Cyan (vig + Alex), and Celes (Phantom + Alex).

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Posted (edited)

I finished it.

 

Wasn't too brutal with the speed increase once you build around it and prepare to take a lot of hits and do a lot of pre-heals. 

 

 

Edited by SGFTI
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Cleared Cyan's Soul. vig Sabin, stam Edgar, mag Relm, all level 23 - 24

Also, I made an esper reset. Celes, Sabin, Edgar, Cyan. I finally have people who have other 1,000 HP naturally, w00t!!

***

First order of business is getting a Punisher Rod for dealing with the Dream Jerks. Relm's going to be MVP for the boss fights. To do that, I need either the Wing Edge near the entrance to the Phoenix Cave or the Avenger near the entrance to the Cave to the Ancient Castle, and then trade said item in the trading circle in the Colosseum. I opt for the Avenger, guarded by Master T.

Team is: MP/HP Terra, mag Strago, vig Sabin, mag Relm

Turns out, 'Gank' can miss now (or was it always like that). Huzzah! Does mean that this guy becomes a lot simpler: Mute, Golem, p.eva, lots of Fire damage. Morph Terra does 7k+ even without magic EL investment, Raze & Flare do 3800 - 4400, and Fire Claws are doing 4.5k. Master T crumples without a hitch, Colosseum trade goes quickly.

***

First area of Cyan's Soul, I actually bother to clear a random with Meteor. Otherwise, just running to the Stooges with Back Guard + Gale Hairpin equipped.

For the Stooges, courtesy of @Satarack, I have discovered Reflect Ring strategies, making these guys so much simpler. I was dreading these punks on NHT, as they normally give me trouble every game. Reflect Rings made this fight a lot simpler. Also, Relm's RegenX cuts through Reflect. ^ _ ^

Edgar's purpose is to SlowX. After that, he mostly pretends like he's mag Edgar, with Bio Blaster, Defib, Cure 2, and Battery. I didn't even equip a spear for Cover because speed (Falchion) was more important. I brought Edgar along for Cyan's Soul because he's one of my lower level dudes and has SlowX. Mog perhaps would've been a wiser choice, but you know what, oh well.

Sabin's purpose was to be dps, but it turns out that Poison Claws only do 950 damage a pop (as does the proc), so...uhh...stam Edgar was outdamaging Sabin. >_< Berserk Sabin did better, but I couldn't berserk him until the top stooge is down because getting through the first part of the fight is top priority. Multiple opponents at double speed = not fun.

Relm's purpose turned out to be dps. Punisher's Dark proc hit for 7k, nearly 8k, damage a pop. Granted, the rng decided it hated me most of the time, but the raw damage output compared to the Figaro Bros. couldn't be ignored. It ain't the Figaro game anymore. RNG decided it liked me for the last dude and proc'd Dark thrice in a row, ending his life quickly. Otherwise, Relm also threw out RegenX.

***

Soul Train portion was handled with more Poison. Caves portion was the usual Bolt + Heal nonsense, though with some high damage killing Relm once.

***

Wrexsoul, otoh, was a pill. It took me many resets. Despite improving my strategy & tactics a bit, there was still some luck to the fight. Namely, with who Wrexsoul had infected and Flare / Meteo. It's rare that I pull together a team for Cyan's Soul that can easily handle both Dream Stooges and Soul Fires, though that may also be because I keep trying to clear Cyan's Soul at lower than expected levels. >_<

Sabin actually was the dps for this fight. After summoning Golem, his job was to berserk himself (so, no Reflect Ring, ; _ ; ) so that he can wail on the Soul Fires for 1.7k Ocean Claw strikes, plus the occasional critical (2.8k) and Drain proc keeping him topped off. Spreading out the damage proved useful, since the last Soul Fire going berserk proved difficult to handle, so it needs to be nearly dead when the first one dies.

Relm's job was also to provide damage (Flare) and the occasional Cure 3 after setting up with RegenX and Rerise. I tried to have her Flare whichever Soul Fire had been taking less damage so as to avoid the "last Soul Fire goes berserk" problem. Relm kept a Reflect Ring on, protecting her from Flare & Lifeshaver. For the winning run, this and Relm's high mg.eva for dodging Meteo proved invaluable, as she was the one who Wrexsoul had "possessed." Reflect Ring, Red Cap, and high mg.eva meant she never died despite the Figaro Bros. dying, so I was able to win.

Edgar was least valuable person here. SlowX is still nice, as was Hasting Sabin, but otherwise, he mostly sits on a full ATB until someone needs healing because I can't afford not to have someone without an active turn ready because of double speed Soul Fires. Also, Defib proved useful.

I had to use 2 Phoenix Tears, an X-Potion, and an Ether in the winning run. What jerks. Ultimately, though, it's my fault for dragging some underleveled Figaro Bros along to a late WoR dungeon. Probably should've replaced Sabin with Mog, come to think of it.

***

Well, I still made it through, and went straight to esper resetting Celes, Sabin, Edgar, and Cyan.

For Edgar, I gave up on stam Edgar and reset him to mag Edgar. 5 Unicorn, 10 Siren. He basically was a bad mag Edgar for Cyan's Soul anyways, might as well stick with it. I'll use Umaro, Celes, or Locke if I want C/C. (Might try Shadow).

Sabin has been reset to Terrato Sabin for the lulz. 15 Terrato. Probably should grab some Stray.

Cyan has been reset to vig Cyan, because that's the way you play Cyan. Actually, he's still got 8 Alexander ELs, so he's still bulky. Need to grind him up, as he's only at 18/9 right now.

Celes was reset to Phantom / Alexander Celes instead of Ramuh / Seraph Celes. 8 Alex, 7 Phantom, with more Phantom coming. Get to try out a bulky c/c Celes with ???.

***

I have no idea what's up next. I guess the Phoenix Cave?

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Posted (edited)

Beat Phoenix Cave & Cave on the Veldt, grinded up Cyan (vig), Locke (kirin, with some phoenix), and Shadow (spd), grabbed Illumina, and am now ready to grind Hero Shield, kill Earth Dragon, and then conquer Ancient Castle. Mostly breezed through everything on auto-pilot. Hopefully, hard stuffs over until Kefka's, with a couple of exceptions (Holy Dragon).

Levels were mostly 25 across the board, with a few hitting 26. Terra hit 27 at some point, forgot when.

Also, I completely forgot to try out Phantom Celes these two dungeons. Uhh.....oops?

***

P.Cave, Dragon Killers: spd Gau, Umaro, HP/MP Terra, mag Edgar

P.Cave, Other Team: HP Sabin, stam Setzer, vig Cyan, mag Strago

Umaro and Gau wrecked the cave. 6k Hurtmores at top speed from Gau, and Umaro tanks stuff, kills stuff, and guards allies a ton. Terra & Edgar kinda just watched them half the time, with Terra having a knack for being turned to stone or getting killed by Blowfish (damsel in distress). The other half of the time, Umaro and Gau kept missing, so Terra would have to pick up the slack. Edgar kept Terra's MP going with the Battery, healed, and sometimes Muddled stuff. Only difficult fight for this team was Sea Flower x5, and half of the difficulty was the annoyance of watching Gau & Umaro slag through it while Edgar & Terra keep everyone healed.

The other team, otoh, kinda struggled a bit, with only vig Cyan really looking good. Tbf, I messed up my Strago strategy. I relied mostly on Raze and Tsunami, and while Tsunami turned out solid, Raze was kinda meh. Should've gone Rod + Black Belt for single-target damage. Probably should've tried some Shoat strats with stam Setzer, as half the time I did attack, I tended to use either Bio or attempt insta-death.

HP Sabin is a lie. Dude could barely scratch anything without Water/Ice weakness (Mus and Witches). Also, his HP gets chewed through very quickly, requiring constant healing. Which means no Cover strats for Sabin. Guess I can turn him into a Chakra battery instead.

Fire Dragon exploded. 8k Ice 3's from Morph Terra, 6.5k Blizzards from Umaro, Gau doing 3k Ninja Waves at ~80 speed, and he can barely hurt me because of my resistances. Tbf, claws and blowfish are threatening, and berserk is annoying, but mostly, he got 'sploded.

Oh, and I got Locke. Yay, Locke. I can now continue playing as Kirin Locke. I finally have more C/C users besides Umaro! (Umaro's still the best)

At some point there, Umaro threw Terra for 9k+ damage, whereas he was normally tossing people for 6k+ damage. Also, every other time he threw Terra, it was for 6k+ damage. So iunno what happened there. Also, pincer'd Sea Flowers + Wavecannon = minor graphical glitch of Wavecannon dancing around between which side it's gonna hit.

***

Cave on the Veldt was Chakra team. HP Sabin, HP/MP Terra, Kirin Locke, mag Relm, all 'sploding stuff with magics while Sabin supports. Can't really tell how strong the strat is overall because I'm nearly endgame strength running over an early/mid-WoR dungeon. Won't really get to know until I take it to Kefka's either.

It was mostly Relm and Terra 'sploding randoms with Meteor, Flare, Fire 3, and Ice 3. Locke did Cover fairly well, but it wasn't really necessary right now. Sabin never died and no one ran out of MP. Can't tell if HP Sabin is a better Chakra battery than stam Sabin b/c of survivability or if it's just being overlevelled.

Tiamat exploded. Morph Ice 3 and Flare followed by Morph Fire 3 and X-Fire 3 (without Rogue Cloak, but oh well). Didn't last long.

When Tiamat comes from behind, does that switch row or not? I assumed it did, but then I told Terra & Relm to switch rows and they go forward. Don't recall Locke ever Covering anyone after the switch either, though Tiamat did explode pretty quickly. Also, Tiamat Haymaker'd Morph Terra for ~1200 damage after she switched rows (going forward).

***

Eh, I kinda wanted too long to get Locke, Shadow, Cyan, re-spec Phantom Celes, etc, and now I don't have too much time to play with them before Kefka's. Also forgot to use vig Mog more and, being underleveled most of the time, had little time to play with Chakra. Oops. Otoh, I do know how vig Mog, Cyan, and Shadow work anyways.

I'll go 'splode the Earth Dragon next time before going to the Ancient Castle. Shadow's coming along for the ride, dunno who else is. Probably should bring Mog.

Edited by thzfunnymzn
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Hey there,

How does one go about patching this?  My friend and I are going to give it a playthrough.

FF3 US -> BNW -> Nowea HT?  Or just straight from original to Nowea?

What's the difference in the two files?

 

Thanks!

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37 minutes ago, MGE said:

FF3 US -> BNW -> Nowea HT? 

Correct.

[H] is if you're using a headered rom, [N] is if you're using a non-headered rom. If you have to ask, you are probably using a non-headered rom.

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52 minutes ago, Deschain said:

Correct.

[H] is if you're using a headered rom, [N] is if you're using a non-headered rom. If you have to ask, you are probably using a non-headered rom.

 

Many thanks, we're hoping this offers a great challenge.  We've played through just about every hack and hard mode for most Final Fantasy games that are available and are still looking for a very difficult challenge.  Thanks again.

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WoR has too much grinding. Maybe I just play inefficiently.

Grinded out Hero Shield, made several trades in the Colosseum, and also re-spec'd Setzer to The Bank because of some discussion that's been going on in Discord and b/c Bank is just better than stam anyways. (OK, OK, GP Toss should start doing good damage once you stack enough stamina, but by that point, I'll have Fixed Dice. Sides, I got Umaro for c/c).

Ancient Castle will be spd Shadow, vig Mog, Phantom Celes, and Bank Setzer. My first actual test run of c/c Illumina Celes. We'll see how it goes.

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Finished Ancient Castle and Ebot's Rock. Only few last things (grind to 30, Dragons, Cultist's Tower), and then Kefka's.

***

Ancient Castle. spd Shadow, Phantom Celes, vig Mog, Bank Setzer. Start at levels 25/15, finish at 28/18. Ancient Castle and Narshe seem to be dungeons of the WoR that really give EXP; don't think I've gotten huge jumps in level in any other WoR dungeon.

Randoms were swept with a mix of Kunai, Fire Scroll (Zorathians), Jumps, Illumina, and Bank Setzer throwing the fancy Black Dart weapon talked about in Discord. I don't think anything really threatened me. Also got to have fun with Kagenui's X-Fight. WEAPON was handled with Water Scroll and Water Rondo; found 3-4 of them, so major EXP and EP.

Katanasoul perished under a mountain of Fire Scrolls and Illuminas. High HP (finally) means he didn't kill me with GP Toss.

Got fancy Genji Shield for for Phantom Celes.

For Water Dragon, Shadow, despite having high speed Bolt Scrolls, has no Water resistance, so, uh, he died a lot. (Forgot about Kagenui + Orochi strats, oops). Him dropping a lot was probably the chink in my armor for that fight. Otherwise, Celes and Mog did a good job pummeling the dragon while Setzer kept everyone healed up.

Return trip, however, I was majorly drained on MP, so I had to resort to Zantetsuken and Slots for return battles. Boxxy x3 is b0rked; I got hit with three S.Cross's in a row, no chance to react, and just flat died. >_< Otherwise, I made it through about the same as normal, just slower.

For Shadow, despite dropping a lot against the Water Dragon, performed well. I forget how powerful he is. Still dislike his frailty and lack of build variety. Oh well.

Phantom Celes was amazing and may be my new favorite build for Celes. Illumina hits plenty hard right now, and C/C does a nice job increasing her damage output. Didn't need the defensive benefits for Mog and Setzer though. Also, Illumina chews through her MP really fast. (Hmm.....chews threw MP fast, Cover to defend frail characters. I'm seeing a character to pair with stam Sabin and mages). Cover also defends people on the other side of a pincer, hilariously. Otoh, I'm concerned that she won't be as effective once enemies get harder in Kefka's.

Mogoon was Mogoon. Punisher strats would've been stronger, but enemies here were easy enough that I just stuck with Partisan for conserving MP. (And I talk so much about Punisher being better than Partisan). I did use Punisher strats for the Water Dragon though, for the extra damage. Dragon died right as Mog ran out of MP too.

Bank Setzer is invincible and has an infinite amount of MP. For just strolling through the dungeon, I had, effectively, an infinite amount of MP for throwing the Black Dart. Otoh, Seraph and Cures drained my MP after the Water Dragon fight, so I had to resort to Slots. Oh well.

***

Ebot's Rock was done with mag Strago, mag Relm, stam Sabin, and Kirin Locke.

Randoms died to X-Zone.

Hidon was a surprising bugger on Hard Type. Probably b/c of two low HP characters, forgetting to set Slow, and forgetting to summon Golem to handle early battle physicals. >_< Herp derp.

X-Fire3 did 12k damage to Hidon. (Yes, I used X-Locke with Kirin Locke. Omega Valiance was used for randoms).  Even when Locke's MP bottomed out (I used an Ether once) and I had to resort to Fire3-Fire2 combo while Sabin Chakra'd, he still did 9k. My main damage dealer.

Sabin spammed Chakra to keep X-Locke going. Also used Mantra a few times to restore HP, but eventually, Locke's MP meant he had to Chakra full time. Didn't bother with Aurabolt; actually, I competely forgot it existed. Wouldn't have helped, b/c I wanted to keep on Hidonite alive to prevent a respawn.

Strago, as usual, was kinda just there. He used Tsunami to help control Hidonites at first, but afterwards, resorted to Holy Wind, when he wasn't down on HP from Quasar. @BTB, please remove Poison absorb from Hidon, it's frustrating that Strago doesn't actually put down his rival from his youth. (Actually, please swap Fire weakness for Poison weakness. I want to blow up Hidon with X-Dark).

Relm did Relm stuff. Sketch'd for Black Omen, RegenX / Cure 3 at times, and used Flare (and got Mute'd in response).

I...really b0rked this battle. Should've had White Cape on Relm, summoned Golem, Slow'd him earlier on, etc, etc. >_< Stupid. Oh well/

***

Imma take stam Sabin, X-Strago, and Phantom Celes to one of the dragon fights. (Not Holy Dragon). Don't have a second Sage Stone, so can't do a double X-Mage strategy. Ah well, maybe I'll drag Terra or Relm along. Probably Ice Dragon, for the Morph Fire 3. Might also try to get this team working in Kefka's.

Otherwise, standard endgame ahoy.

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2 hours ago, thzfunnymzn said:

Imma take stam Sabin, X-Strago, and Phantom Celes to one of the dragon fights. (Not Holy Dragon). ... Ah well, maybe I'll drag Terra or Relm along. Probably Ice Dragon, for the Morph Fire 3. Might also try to get this team working in Kefka's.

Enjoy! Morphed Terra spamming lategame spells, C/C Illumina Phantom Celes, and Stam Sabin for MP support are BFFs. It's one configuration where relegating Sabin to MP-recovery duty doesn't feel like a waste. Strago would make a great fourth wheel, bringing Shield, X-Shell, Refract, and some heavy Poison and Water elemental  coverage to the table. I've used Relm as the fourth in this configuration to great satisfaction as well. Having 3 characters who can all switch hit between healing and DPS like champs is extreme luxury.

I feel like it's high time I take a stab at NHT. This thread has me craving another run, and this patch should make things fresh enough. Maybe toss on a few beta patches (Elemental mixing, ephemeral reflect, encounter rate) for extra freshness.

Speaking of fresh new things, what is this Black Dart for Setzer you speak of? I don't recall coming across that before.

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I'm guessing he modded Setzer's darts based on something BTB will likely make a post relatively soon on regarding 1.10 development

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Posted (edited)

 

22 hours ago, SirNewtonFig said:

Enjoy! Morphed Terra spamming lategame spells, C/C Illumina Phantom Celes, and Stam Sabin for MP support are BFFs. It's one configuration where relegating Sabin to MP-recovery duty doesn't feel like a waste. Strago would make a great fourth wheel, bringing Shield, X-Shell, Refract, and some heavy Poison and Water elemental  coverage to the table. I've used Relm as the fourth in this configuration to great satisfaction as well. Having 3 characters who can all switch hit between healing and DPS like champs is extreme luxury.

I feel like it's high time I take a stab at NHT. This thread has me craving another run, and this patch should make things fresh enough. Maybe toss on a few beta patches (Elemental mixing, ephemeral reflect, encounter rate) for extra freshness.

Speaking of fresh new things, what is this Black Dart for Setzer you speak of? I don't recall coming across that before.

As Nowea said, I made a modification based on 1.10 development. Also making a change to Dark based on 1.10 development. X-Strago is going to wreck Holy Dragon.

For Chakra spam, my main issue has always been that I felt like there's too few configurations where it's truly useful, meaning it's difficult to use Chakra Sabin without pre-planning into specific set-ups. Chakra itself is pretty boss (1.10 development looks like it'll buff Chakra itself, which I'm not a fan of). C/C was just recently introduced, so my lack of playing 1.9 means I missed a new use for Chakra Sabin. Throughout most of BNW's history, Osmose was pretty op, so Relm and Strago didn't need Chakra support either, meaning Chakra Sabin was limited to Morph Boxless Terra, X-Mog, and X-Locke. I...I'm a stubborn mule, so it's taken me 2-3 playthroughs of recent versions to accept that new Relm does want Figaro support. Not sold on Strago wanting Figaro support (support spells are cheap, his dps is unimpressive without a weakness), but the aforementioned new Dark change is meant to change that.

EDIT: Also, technically, I'm running Terrato Sabin with a few Stray. So far, I prefer Terrato Sabin at Chakra support rather than Stray Sabin.

Edited by thzfunnymzn
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Cultist's Tower done. Easiest time I've ever had with this place. HP/MP Terra, spd Shadow, HP Sabin, mag Strago.

For the randoms, adding Gale Hairpin, Back Guard, and spd Shadow with Warp to the Reflect Ring set-ups makes it much easier to skip all the encounters here. They never once did major damage to me, despite NHT's double speed. Therefore, I childishly stick my tongue out at this place. : p

For the Holy Dragon, everyone's at level 30, equipped with HP boosters, and with decent enough stamina for mg.dmg variance to matter. (Despite playing mag Strago, Strago's stamina meant Holy came just short of a OHKO. This proved very crucial to keeping my momentum going). After the initial buff / debuff phase, the strat is that Terra's the healer, Shadow runs other support (Rerise, HasteX, Smoke Bombs, spot-heals when Terra's not available), HP Sabin spams Chakra (used Mantra twice), and X-Dark Strago is the dps. Terra and Shadow are running White Capes to avoid my support structure getting halted by Mute. X-Dark's great dps for this fight, but I'm also playtesting a proposed 1.10 idea: a Dark that's stronger but costs more MP (from 72 to 90 BPow, from 32 to 42 MP), so that X-Dark is more useful as a general-purpose attack (instead of just for Poison weakness or low mg.def). Idea is that X-Strago gets a true general-purpose, top-tier dps attack, but the high MP cost should mean he wants Figaro support.

Even if I hadn't run a stronger X-Dark, this was definitely my easiest Holy Dragon fight in a long, long time. (New X-Dark meant 14k damage instead of 11k. Still breaking the damage cap). Everything went very smoothly. So...another toast to Chakra Sabin, although part of that toast also goes to just having high HP. I like high HP. It's nice finally having high HP. * glares at nerfed HP espers * Course, I did most of the WoR "underleveled" (running into later WoR dungeons at below level 25), so some of this is my fault.

Oh, add spd Shadow to the list of people who like Chakra support, even though he doesn't care for it as much as an X-Mage.

Magimaster died a horribly, bloody death, as per usual. Do I need to comment on this fool?

***

Since I've got a real dps tool for Strago now, I did something unusual (for me) and traded out the Box for another Crystal Orb. Thamasa Duo are both getting an Orb for moar damage! If I hadn't had this new tool, I'd have probably kept the Box and used mag Strago more as a mixed & speedy support dude with good off-turn attacks. Both of which would've meant limiting Chakra Sabin to Relm + C/C Celes. With a real dps tool, I've got a few different options for how to build Chakra team; options are nice.

Only things left before Kefka's are Earth Dragon and Ice Dragon. (Oh, also, I ran from those forced pincers in Owzer's. Gonna go back for my mullah). I'll forgo a Chakra team for either since I all ready got my fill with Cultist's.

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Defeated Warring Triad. Only Kefka remaining. Everyone's at 30, except for a few at 31.

Team 1 is Team Chakra: HP Sabin, HP/MP Terra, Phantom Celes, mag Strago. After the fork, they'll fight Asura. Also, again, testing out the in-development Dark for 1.10. (Slightly higher BPow, but also slightly higher MP cost).

Spoiler

Big elementals, X-Zone, and c/c all thrashed mobs. There were a few encounters I Warped away from; forgot which ones. Either they got the jump and/or I felt like this team couldn't handle them well.

Guardian, as per usual, died a horrible, horrible death. Morph Terra with Bolt 3, Tsunami Strago, and even Bolt 3 from Celes all put this guy down without much of a fight. Oh, and Dispel to prevent any Reflect shenanigans on my Bolt 3 spam.

Kaiser's Wallchange decided to be mean and mostly role Holy and Fire. Ice would've been preferred. Otherwise, nothing much to say. Suplex's "never miss Slow" prevents Haste from being an issue. I was mostly fairly safe HP-wise and had a never ending supply of MP.

For Asura, after some initial fights where she decided to RNG-kill me (N.Cross) and/or I forgot some key pieces of equipment (Chocobo Hide for Water resist), things went smoothly. Morph Terra's Bolt 3 pelted her for 9999, Strago's X-Dark did 5500 - 6000 per Dark, Sabin did his usual, Celes c/c'd, supported, and healed (Terra also healed, obviously).

Also, I had both Terra and Celes on Cover. There were a few times that both Cover'd Strago at once. Hilarious.

***

This team ended up being my A-team. Which means Chakra Sabin is better than I thought. I do have one defense though: this is Terrato Sabin, not stam Sabin. : )

Terrato Sabin spammed Chakra. Even at only ~50 MP per heal, this is still useful enough to keep the team going, save for one or two times when Strago needed X-Osmose. Also kept Sabin alive, unlike Deschain's NHT play with stam Sabin. Other than Chakra, Mantra actually found a few uses, and then his usual Golem.

HP/MP Terra. I initially planned to play NHT with MP Terra, but I stopped that because HP was too important. Otoh, I did forgo Maduin completely; elemental weaknesses, low mg.def, and Morph means that Terra barely noticed. Also had her run Cover a few times when not Morphed, just to push her "party support" role a little further. Had I not swapped Gem Box for a Crystal Orb, Terra would've been fine without Chakra support.

Phantom Celes is my new favorite Celes build. With Alexander and great equipment (looking at you, Cyan), she can take plenty of hits and dish out solid damage in return. C/C means she can run party support while still expecting to see Illumina counterattacks. Chakra support was appreciated and also enabled her to switch over to magical damage for certain fights (Guardian, Kaiser, a few randoms), as well as giving her effectively infinite MP for Illumina and support magics. This build appreciating Chakra is probably my biggest error in evaluating Chakra's usefulness. Otoh, c/c only just now came into existence, so....uh....>_>

mag Strago, as a glass cannon, feels so much better when X-Dark actually hits like Tempest. Though, just as importantly, Chakra support = free use of X-Zone. : )

For Sabin, I'm actually very tempted to either run vig Sabin -> respec to Terrato for Chakra spam, or to stick with hyb Sabin set-ups. Chakra spam was nice. Though if I end up running defensive mages, I'll stick with vig Sabin.

Team 2 is glass cannon team. mag Edgar, mag Relm, spd Gau, vig Cyan. I thought they'd fight Myria (Flurry & Hurtmore), but they fought Isis instead. Oops.

Spoiler

This team was mostly fine for randoms. Hurtmore, Harvester, Meteor/Flare, and Flurry/Tempest mostly handled stuff, while Edgar handled healing & Battery support. Not as good as Chakra team though; I blame Cyan.

For Atma, I really need to start considering this guy as an important fight; he kicked my butt this run, as he has done in previous runs as well. Died 5 times to this guy. Eventually resorted to Reflect Ring (and Alexander) strategies just to get through Phase II; Harvester, Relm, and Edgar simply couldn't keep up, while Tempest just wasn't doing the damage to be worth only having Cyan running offense.

Bolt Dragon, otoh, died pretty easily. Bolt gear and plenty of damage ended him quickly.

Oops, not Myria, but Isis. >_< I had planned on Hurtmore and Flurry blowing up Myria's low p.def self with huge damage (both should've done 9999). Had fire and wind gear at the ready. Ugh.

Isis was annoying, though not super dangerous. Charmed Gau an awful lot, though Harvester Gau is non-threatening when Charmed. Other than that, it was a slog of Edgar and Relm healing / supporting while Relm and Cyan chipped off her HP. Tempest gets a nice damage upgrade when she turns her back, but Cyan also ate dirt an awful lot. Ugh.

***

This team was definitely my C-Team. Partly because it was built poorly for the bosses (Isis, Atma), though maybe NHT Atma is just too brutal? Iunno. The other reason, however:

vig Cyan really, really feels the hurt from weakened HP espers. My other HP+60 dudes were fine; Cyan, otoh, dropped an awful lot. I went heavy Alexander, but weak HP ELs means that I'm down 240 / 300 HP. Weakened HP ELs, his usual lack of shield, and avoiding 1.9's Hero Ring b/c of Cover = Cyan dies like Strago. Urg! Part of the reason early on was equipping Cyan poorly: my semi-strict policy of not swapping gear in Kefka's meant he went with Dark Good + Crystal instead of Genji. Still, even after fixing some of those issues (Genji Helm, Muscle Belt), he just didn't perform. Tempest only did 6k damage (Masamune, 80 vigor) and his 1.7k HP just didn't hold up. I really miss my Power Glove + Hero Ring set-up for Cyan.

mag Edgar is mag Edgar. Utility, healing, and Battery. I...think I did something wrong, as he only had 40 spd and 60 mag for me, and I know I went heavy on the Siren. Nirvana Cure 2 / Defib only did about ~700. I...uhh....did something wrong. Well, he still performed well, just was expecting him to be more powerful. Definitely superior to Unicorn Edgar though. (Except maybe for FC, but I guess that's just a case of front-loading mag Edgar with Unicorn).

Been a while since I played mag Relm. Feels good. Blow stuff up with big Flares, actually heal a good amount with Osmose (180 with the Crystal Orb), have a good chunk of MP. Having Battery support did keep her from having to Osmose all the time. (Some versions ago, Osmose would've been at double power and Radiant Gown would've had MP+50%, so she really wouldn't have needed Battery support). Just feels good to use this build again after playing spd Relm a lot.

spd Gau is fun. Great damage dealer, useful healer. Haven't bothered with any other Rage in ages. Even boosted with a Blizzard Orb, Harvester only heals for 400, but Gau does get an awful lot of turns. (Still needed Reflect strats for Atma, unlike my previous non-NHT run). Really wish I had fought Myria.

Team 3 is a bunch of bulky dudes and a ninja. Kirin Locke, vig Mog, Bank Setzer, and spd Shadow. I thought they'd fight Isis, but they fought Myria instead. Oops.

Spoiler

This team rolled all over randoms. Inferno and Myria were a bit of a grind though.

For Inferno, I died a couple of times at first, before hitting on better strats. Kagenui proved very useful for keeping the arms Stopped/Slowed.

Poison Dragon died, as per usual. Though surprisingly less easily than Bolt, thx to this Shadow and Locke deciding they liked eating dirt. (Also, lack of status resists, herp). Oh well, 8k Longinus jumps wrecked this guy.

I wanted this team to fight Isis, not Myria. Plenty of back attackers, plenty of ways of killing & reviving the Charmed, bulk. Urg!

Myria was annoying, though once I got a strat down, like Isis, mostly a grind. Died once, then I switched Locke over to Sage Stone. Had to scramble a lot with Remedies, Holy Water, and Potions, and also used up a few X-Potions and X-Ethers. Also still had a timely save from a Harvester that I rolled rng for.

***

Next time I play Kirin Locke, Imma do it rightly and give him Ramuh ELs. Omega will just get traded in the Colosseum for a Mirage Vest. Awful damage, and his low mg.def means he crumples mighty quick. Still, Phoenix ELs and Sage Stone saved my bacon for Myria, so he's not all bad.

vig Mog is vig Mog.

The Bank: Setzer performed admirably. Would've been better with proper HP ELs (>_>), but....it's Setzer. Gave up on stam Setzer: I had been running a heavier HP set-up, which hurt GP Rain's damage, and I was also broke. Could've used him for Cover or resisting statuses, but I just decided to go all-in with The Bank. I could've respec to heavy Starlet for great damage, but I felt like I was better off letting other dudes handle damage while Setzer did his job as a cleric.

I'm really liking spd Shadow. A lot. Possibly enough to change my preference to actually wanting to use Shadow more often, despite his low HP.

***

Unless Kefka pulls a surprise, Nowea, I think you've gotten most of my feedback. There's a few bosses that need to be looked at (Phunbaba especially), and Back Attacks need to be less "rng kill you". Also gonna agree with Deschain that HP ELs have been lowered a bit too much. I'd at least bring them back up to 2/3 strength (+20, +40).

I'll comment more on general 1.9 thoughts some other time.

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Commenting on 1.9 in general:

Spoiler

HP/MP Terra, is the same old, same old. Great bulky healer with plenty of opportunities to snipe a weakness, good attack on FC with Break, needs MP support in WoR either in form of Chakra or Gem Box, though has good debuffs for randoms at least. Only new thing is possibility of front-row Cover support (Hero Ring). She definitely has no use for Maduin, outside of an endgame respec for Ultima spam. (Which, IIRC, only nets about 1000 - 1500 extra damage with Ultima).

Kirin Locke, Imma actually play correctly next time by snagging Ramuh ELs and using a Genji Shield to take hits. It's not my personal preference, but I can see why people would like endgame c/c Kirin + Ramuh, forsaking Phoenix. Maybe not my preference though. (It does remind me of an old idea to turn Phoenix into HP +15 / MP +25, encouraging Kirin as the big HP esper for Locke.) Also, Omega was lol. (Omega's a bugger to balance as an attack. Terra's got Morph and a +2 esper to use it well, but as it's no longer a stat stick, Edgar and Celes would rather just trade it out for a Mirage Vest. Dunno if a proper Kirin Locke would utilize Omega Valiance well, or if even he might prefer to just swap it out).

Unicorn Edgar is lol. Probably fine early on, but as a pure defensive move, Cover can't carry a whole build (chances are too low, can't choose who gets Cover'd, only prevents physicals). Siren Edgar is Siren Edgar, just less powerful than I had previously thought. Still fun though. With Gungnir, Siren Edgar can probably run Cover reasonably well anyways.

Golem Sabin is Golem Sabin; 2nd best character in WoB. For Chakra Sabin, I'm going to have to bite back a lot of my previous remarks. After playing 1.8 and 1.9, the Osmose nerf in 1.8 definitely means the Thamasians care a lot more for the Chakra support. C/C auto-crit (Phantom Celes, Maduin Mog with Punisher) is also another solid use, with a cute defensive synergy with defensive mages. Mind you, this was Terrato Sabin, not Stray: Chakra was awesome enough that I didn't really need it to be stronger, just needed more HP on Sabin for his own survivability.

Phantom Celes is my new favorite Celes build. Plenty of HP and armor for tanking hits, a strong weapon for great counters, and the ability to get all three of "Physical Damage +", "Counterattack", and "Cover." MP intensive though, so either pair her with Chakra (and frail mages), or sacrifice some HP for Seraph ELs. Slightly low damage (3.9k swipe), but meh, w/e.

Kirin Cyan is Kirin Cyan; best character in WoB. vig Cyan really, really feels the HP nerf in this hack. Probably because, for the WoR, he and Sabin are highly dependent on stacking HP ELs for their survivability. (Probably why I felt like Terrato Sabin was better for Chakra spam than Stray Sabin). Sabin's got the Royal Jacket, high vigor, and great utility though. Cyan....can't use Hero Ring without hurting his own survivability again. ; _ ; So, my high Alex vig Cyan just kinda didn't perform as well as I had hoped. Still hit hard. More like my Kirin Locke; not terrible, but clearly under-performing. For NHT, almost definitely should've just pumped more vigor and just relied on Image / Reflect / Rerise / Defib support more heavily.

spd Gau is spd Gau. Hurtmore and Harvester spam; don't think I've bothered with his other stuff in quite some time. (Partly from lack of time, partly b/c why bother?). Harvester is only 300 - 400 in endgame, but at probably double the speed of anyone else. Hurtmore is easily a 6k - 8k at double speed.

spd Shadow is changing my personal preference about Shadow. I think I like double turning stuff as much as I like tanking a million hits with huge bulk.

For GP Toss Setzer, if I play him again, it should probably be with a respec. GP Toss just really needs to stack high stamina to do the damage. Otherwise, I could use Starlet for extra Cover support on The Bank Setzer, as raw HP/MP is slightly stupid, esp. with nerfed HP ELs or without an HP/MP booster to boost those stats (esp. MP) to absurd levels. Still, he's great, and he's still got plenty of offensive options (Blackjack on FC, Shoat, sniping Holy/Human weaknesses with knives; even Fixed Dice, with Daryl's Soul, should average to good damage in a longer boss fight).

vig Mog is vig Mog. Mogoon with Partisan until you grab Punisher, hit stuff with Punisher until you grab Longinus, Mogoon with Longinus, and don't forget magical utility or maybe even Forest Suite.

mag Strago is mag Strago. Somewhat useless on the FC outside of niche Holy Wind strats or abusing Rods (Mog & Relm are better), becomes solid in the WoR with new Lores, though mostly shines through his utility and mob control. (Sounds like I'd prefer stam Strago for playing a more support-based game, but I think stamina is pointless on Strago, so might as well have stronger attacks for when I do attack). 1.10's proposed X-Dark's damage performed as expected: a better single-target magical attack for Strago to use. Terrato Sabin's Chakra can't quite keep up with its MP cost (84), but it still more than halves the MP cost, so Strago only needs X-Osmose maybe once per fight to keep him going. Dunno how well it performs without Chakra support. Also only really got to test its improved power in a few fights, since most the rest of the time, Strago was doing mob control or sniping a Water or Ice weakness.

mag Relm is nice. Also not op, like she was in 1.7 or earlier, when double strength Osmose and MP+50% Radiant Gown made her a bottomless pool of MP. (Taken me two runs to confirm this though). That and Nowea's speed change (?? version) definitely means mag Relm is probably preferable to raw damage output, both for Zoneseek's MP and for more magic yielding stronger Osmose. spd Relm is still the better support (and we'll pretend that stam Relm doesn't exist).

Bodyguard Umaro (Hero Ring) is fun.

Cover / Counter is definitely a fun new tool. I've mostly appreciated it with Celes, HP/MP Terra (Cover), and Umaro (Cover) though. Probably would've appreciated it more with Locke if I had built him properly and given him a Genji Shield instead of trying for Omega Valiance. Might've also appreciated it with Kirin Cyan had I played him game long or had I been less scared of NHT's brutality on the FC (HP nerfs hurt). (Same reasoning with Edgar; probably should've used Cover side more with mag Edgar once I had Gungnir, but HP nerfs are kinda scary). Didn't get to try it with Mog, Shadow (lol, crazy), Ocean Claw Sabin, or Setzer (Cover).

 

Edited by thzfunnymzn
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