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pogeymanz

Got to the FC. Have a few comments and questions

25 posts in this topic

First, holy crap the FC randoms are rough. I may be underleveled- my guys are mostly levels 16-17, Cyan is 18. I haven't run from too many randoms as I've played, so I don't think I can be that far behind what's expected.

Speaking of running. Running is really ineffective in this game. Running is almost never a viable option because you're just going to get your ass beat while you wait forever for your guys to run away. Why was running made so hard? Consider this my official request to make running way easier in the next version.

Does Gau get better in the WoR? I feel like he's basically unusable for the latter half of the WoB- he's so fragile, and of course the randomness is always a steep cost. But he can't seem to stay up long enough to do anything against many bosses (I'm thinking of the magitek tracks boss, both of the later Ultros battles), let alone the randoms in the sealed cave and FC. I fully accept the possibility that I'm a freaking newb and don't know how to play, but I know what a good number of his rages do and I still just have the hardest time getting him to do much of anything before falling on his face.

I have an idea for Relm. From another thread, it seems that a lot of people agree that Sketch is not that great of a skill. It's hard to know if something is sketchable, it's still random, and it's arguably way more situational than even Rage or Dance (maybe comparable to Runic?). What if Sketch just did some boring, old, Stamina-based damage? Maybe set a random status or something. Doesn't have to be a lot of damage, since Relm does have ways to do lots of damage, but maybe it can be something that gives a reason to do a Stam build on Relm? Or maybe it should be a lot of damage, that way you really have to choose stam-nuke Relm vs. mag-nuke Relm. Just throwing it out there.

Also, potential spoilers, but I have a full esper list up to Seraph. Is that all of them for the WoB? The only optional ones I attained were Golem and Seraph.

Edited by pogeymanz
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What typically happens with the FC is that the randoms are overwhelming when you first get there, but a combination of a few levels and figuring out how to shut them down quickly makes them very manageable by the time you get through it.

Running being more difficult is an unintended side effect of nATB. It has been brought up on numerous occasions. Are you running 1.8.5 or 1.8.6?

Gau more than any other character rewards experimentation. He's fragile, but he's also fast and has access to a lot of attacks that can disable enemies. This goes hand in hand with my above point about dealing with randoms.

And you have all of the WoB espers, yes.

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Gau is the hardest character to use well. You need to experiment and pick up what rages are good in what situations. It's worth noting that Gau gains access to things earlier than other characters, sometimes gaining near exclusive things. Example, Conjourer Gau is the only source of reraise in the WoB. In addition, Gau is easier to help keep up if you remember that Gau gains the elemental and status properties of the monster he is raging.

He is difficult to use and he does get some better rages in the WoR, along with gaining the Fenrir Magicite. The spells on it and speed ELs are a great boon.

If you want an outside guide on rages, in the character section I do have a spreadsheet for Gau, that might help to fully inform on all of the rages.

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44 minutes ago, BTB said:

What typically happens with the FC is that the randoms are overwhelming when you first get there, but a combination of a few levels and figuring out how to shut them down quickly makes them very manageable by the time you get through it.

Running being more difficult is an unintended side effect of nATB. It has been brought up on numerous occasions. Are you running 1.8.5 or 1.8.6?

Gau more than any other character rewards experimentation. He's fragile, but he's also fast and has access to a lot of attacks that can disable enemies. This goes hand in hand with my above point about dealing with randoms.

And you have all of the WoB espers, yes.

Okay, I wont pull my hair out over the randoms quite yet.

I'm running 1.8.6.

 

31 minutes ago, Nowea said:

Gau is the hardest character to use well. You need to experiment and pick up what rages are good in what situations. It's worth noting that Gau gains access to things earlier than other characters, sometimes gaining near exclusive things. Example, Conjourer Gau is the only source of reraise in the WoB. In addition, Gau is easier to help keep up if you remember that Gau gains the elemental and status properties of the monster he is raging.

He is difficult to use and he does get some better rages in the WoR, along with gaining the Fenrir Magicite. The spells on it and speed ELs are a great boon.

If you want an outside guide on rages, in the character section I do have a spreadsheet for Gau, that might help to fully inform on all of the rages.

Yeah, I used Conjourer quite a bit around Zozo. I did forget to think about the elemental and status protections- thanks for the reminder. And I actually had already downloaded your spreadsheet. It's much appreciated!

I intend to go full speed ELs with him, because that seems strictly superior than including stam levels, so he's not fast, he's fragile, etc. I'll study the spreadsheet a little more and see if I can make better use of him.

Thanks for the tips, guys.

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1.8.6 should make running a bit more easier for faster characters... slower ones still want to rely on warp to get out of fights, though.

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12 hours ago, pogeymanz said:

Speaking of running. Running is really ineffective in this game. Running is almost never a viable option because you're just going to get your ass beat while you wait forever for your guys to run away. Why was running made so hard? Consider this my official request to make running way easier in the next version.

I recommend just don't run unless you know the fight is unwinnable and you're trying to avoid a game over. Even in that case casting the Warp spell or using a Warp Whistle is a better option. I feel like for the most part this mod is well balanced difficulty-wise if you don't run from fights and don't spend any extra time grinding.

12 hours ago, pogeymanz said:

Does Gau get better in the WoR? I feel like he's basically unusable for the latter half of the WoB- he's so fragile, and of course the randomness is always a steep cost. But he can't seem to stay up long enough to do anything against many bosses (I'm thinking of the magitek tracks boss, both of the later Ultros battles), let alone the randoms in the sealed cave and FC. I fully accept the possibility that I'm a freaking newb and don't know how to play, but I know what a good number of his rages do and I still just have the hardest time getting him to do much of anything before falling on his face.

If you want easy-mode Gau, put all of his ELs into Stamina and prioritize gear that raises his defense/evade and Stamina. A Stat Stick + Zephyr Cape, for example (Red Cap in WoR). In the WoB pick between Conjuror when you need Reraise + Sap, and Cephalid when you want DPS. Cephalid has auto-shell and the Tentacle attack will be one of your most powerful attacks if you're stacking Stamina. I believe the 1/3 chance Rage inflicts Slow too. That's a huge toolbox in just 2 Rages: Reraise, Sap, Slow, Massive Damage. In the WoR you switch between Tumbleweed* for group healing and Mantodea for damage. Towards the end game I transition Gau from a primary damage dealer to a primary healer since other characters begin to catch up and surpass Gau on damage and you need more big group heals to survive everything spamming stuff like Quasar.

Pick up Antlion (Doom/Stop) when you first get Gau in Sabin's scenario and use that until you get Cephalid and bam, you have an extremely powerful character and all you need is 5 rages for the entire game. He'll always be a little squishy but still more survivable than characters like Strago/Relm, especially if you prioritize his Defense/Evade. Always have him in the back row.

Edit: Corrected auto-safe to auto-shell (Cephalid)

* I meant Mesosaur is your main healing Rage in WoR. Tumbleweed heals for less but cures status.

Edited by Reiker
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19 minutes ago, Reiker said:

I recommend just don't run unless you know the fight is unwinnable and you're trying to avoid a game over. Even in that case casting the Warp spell or using a Warp Whistle is a better option. I feel like for the most part this mod is well balanced difficulty-wise if you don't run from fights and don't spend any extra time grinding.

If you want easy-mode Gau, put all of his ELs into Stamina and prioritize gear that raises his defense/evade and Stamina. A Stat Stick + Zephyr Cape, for example. In the WoB pick between Conjuror when you need Reraise + Sap, and Cephalid when you want DPS. Cephalid has auto-safe and the Tentacle attack will be one of your most powerful attacks if you're stacking Stamina. I believe the 1/3 chance Rage inflicts Slow too. That's a huge toolbox in just 2 Rages. In the WoR you switch between Tumbleweed for group healing and Mantodea for damage. Pick up Antlion when you first get Gau in Sabin's scenario and use that until you get Cephalid and bam, you have an extremely powerful character and all you need is 5 rages for the entire game. He'll always be a little squishy but still more survivable than characters like Strago/Relm, especially if you prioritize his Defense/Evade. Always have him in the back row.

I was only running when I wanted to backtrack and see if I missed stuff, or from the scary guys on the floating continent.

I didn't really consider that stam Gau would be viable. I'll try him out with some stam gear first before I "waste" my ELs.

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It's definitely viable. You'll crap your pants when you see how much damage Tentacle (and Sharpnel) does. I did a pure Stamina Gau my last 1.8.6 run.

Edited by Reiker
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Stamina Gau is limited to those Rages basically. Conjurer & Tumbleweed are extremely strong Rages. Brawler, Cephalid, and Mantodea form a solid trio of stamina attack Rages. I think spd Gau is still better all-around, but if you want, those Rages should still serve you well.

Late in the WoR, Gau will gain the Snow Muffler, which is a big boost to his survivability.

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WoR also has Mesosaur, which is the strongest healing rage for stam Gau.

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Oh yeah, by Tumbleweed I meant Mesosaur. Had them mixed up.

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So, would you say that DPS is better or worse for stam Gau using one of the stam rages than for speed Gau using the same rage?

My hesitation is that when dealing with an RNG, I rather have more chances to get what I want, which is part of the reason I wanted to do full speed on him.

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For the stam rages, Stam Gau definitely gets better DPS without even factoring in the fact that he will die less.

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44 minutes ago, BTB said:

For the stam rages, Stam Gau definitely gets better DPS without even factoring in the fact that he will die less.

Why does he die less? Isn't the magical resistance benefit of stamina fairly minor? I assumed he would still die about as often.

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He'll die less mostly by virtue of triggering less counter-attacks from bosses.

Other than that, the main thing is getting triggered less by status effects.

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Ah, yes. That makes sense. Thanks.

And, yes, I'm often triggered by status effects.

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In terms of raw dps, spd Gau with a proper Rage utterly crushes stam Gau. Cephalid & Mantodea simply cannot hold a candle to a speedy Dragon beatdown. spd Gau will also use the elemental Rages better for hammering weaknesses. (Blizzard Orb's magic boost cares nothing for spd vs. stam, it only cares for mag+ gear).

I'll also add that spd Gau can utilize Tumbleweed & Mesosaur quite effectively. The numbers aren't as intense, though they can still be decent with a Blizzard Orb. However, the sheer number of turns Gau spends healing can be useful. It can be especially useful if you're trying to counter status effects with Tumbleweed, since the Remedy effect of Harvester doesn't depend on stamina. Tumbleweed also comes with immunity to pretty much any status.

That being said, yes, spd Gau will trigger a lot more counterattacks. spd Gau also has to pay attention to which Rage guards against which status or pick Rages that give immunity to everything (like Dragon or Tumbleweed), whereas stam Gau has a nice buffer.

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...................

...................................

I can read, don't look at me like that! >_<

Herp.

Huh, he asked spd Gau with Mantodea vs. stam Gau with Mantodea. I should so calculate that out. >_> (stam Gau still draws less counterattacks though)

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Yes, I was just asking about those rages, specifically. I know that people seem to agree that speed Gau has, overall, a higher DPS.

Another, perhaps better, way to ask my question would've been "Which scales faster: damage from those rages with respect to stamina, or number of turns with respect to speed?"

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I've got one more question that I might as well chuck in this thread.

How much to EL respecs cost, in a relative sense? I understand that the first few are cheaper than the full price, and I don't really care what the actual number is, since that will mean nothing to me until I get there in the game. I'm just wondering if respec'ing is something that takes, like, an hour of grinding per character or what.

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The first respec is relatively cheap (25k), and affects only the active party (up to four characters). Each subsequent respec is considerably more expensive (100k).

Edited by BTB
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I was asking about how expensive it is in terms of my precious time. Like, how long does it take to earn 100k toward the end of the game?

Another question- I saw a dragon at least once on the FC and I'm trying to get Gau to leap on it, but I haven't encountered another one in a long time. Do they only appear in a specific part of the FC?

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44 minutes ago, pogeymanz said:

I was asking about how expensive it is in terms of my precious time. Like, how long does it take to earn 100k toward the end of the game?

Another question- I saw a dragon at least once on the FC and I'm trying to get Gau to leap on it, but I haven't encountered another one in a long time. Do they only appear in a specific part of the FC?

I haven't really timed it but there's a fight with Movers in the forest next to WoR Jidoor worth 15,000 gp. They're not ID immune so you can use Shoat or something to clear them all, but they're pretty lethal so its not really something you can just kinda jump into at the beginning of the WoR. It's also the rare encounter, the common is against 4 Leap Frogs which aren't worth as much gp and take forever to fight because they Jump. It's not too bad but it's still kinda annoying and grindy and I wish that all EL resets were just a flat 25k since I don't like forcing players to do boring grinding sessions just to experiment with different character setups.

Yes you can find all of the FC encounters on the WoR map, they're scattered around those tiny featureless islands. So don't worry about bringing Gau to the FC if you don't want to.

Edited by Reiker
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The tiny featureless islands Reiker refers to are the islands just south of Albrook.

12 hours ago, pogeymanz said:

Another, perhaps better, way to ask my question would've been "Which scales faster: damage from those rages with respect to stamina, or number of turns with respect to speed?"

The stat that an attack scales off of (magic, vigor, or stamina) always scales faster with that stat, rather than with speed. It used to be otherwise, but Nowea introduced a speed nerf to fix that.

So, Gau's 3 stamina Rages have higher dps with his stam build than with spd build, alongside doing more damage per attack, and thus, triggering less counterattacks.

Though, yeah, Gau's physical Rages (or hitting an elemental weakness) are his highest damage options, and stamina doesn't factor into those, only speed does.

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