praetarius5018

Seiken Densetsu 3 Sin of Mana - Discussion

617 posts in this topic

Did you try to use counterattacks on him?
On my end he's literally designed for that combat style.

Note2self:
update SD3 again and make DKS auto gameover the party if even one character hides in the coward corner and then delete all save files.

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Considering I don't really understand how to land a counterattack (I think sometime it happen but that's honnestly luck on my side), I'm unable to use this mechanic as a viable strat.

On that note Jesus christ, compare to Dark Castle Dragon's Hole is hell, not only it's a big maze where everything looks alike but it's like all the most annoying ennemies have been putt in it.

Edited by Nesouk

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1) bait out an attack so the enemy does his attack swing animation then hit with the lv1 tech within a couple seconds after that
2) hit with lv1 tech after the enemy has cast a spell

in case of DKS you should see about 800+ damage with that

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Ok I manage to pull this off and beat him with counter attack just use the Fill Tech Bar x3 weapon and use Aura Wave so I only have to hit him 1 time with Duran to access the LV1 tech, then I just keep Lise alive so that she can heal in order for Duran to not die, the timing is a little tricky but when pulled off it does around 580 damage (didn't have Def Down and didn't bother to use Flame Saber the damage would have pobably been better with these). So yeah this works.

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OK How the fuck do you beat Koren ? I don't understand this fight at all his spells seems to randomly hit for 999 sometime (not counting Deathspell), sometime he stands still and does nothing while other he spams his spells like crazy and in my last attempt he ended up using an AoE version of Deathspell so instant game over yeaaaaaaah -_-

 

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I honestly don't know where the MT deathspell comes from; he could already do that in vanilla (at least I got that twice) but I saw nothing in his AI that suggests he should be able to do that.

Koren is basically part 2 of the counter training; he gains aggro like everything else but he doesn't get a retaliation move from exceeding a certain value, instead it boosts his damage.
Counters reduce the aggro value.

 

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OK got him not really sure if I did it right, I just cast Mind Up on everyone, Mind Down on him, Power Up and Aura Wave on Duran and just spam normal attack and LV1 Tech, while healing when he hit me, eventually he died not sure if I manage to perform any counter tough, but hey at least it works.

Regarding death stuff I don't know, I have a try where he litterally was spamming Deathspell like 4 times in a row and chain with MT Death spell right at the beginning of the fight -_-

 

Edited by Nesouk

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Well Dragon emperor beaten first try.

Just how much HP did he had ? I think the battle last for around 1 hour, good thing I had a LOT of healing items cause I really need them, definitly a war of attrition.

Overall compare to Archdemon I say he is easier than Archdemon's first phase and around the same difficulty than Archdemon's second phase, I'm kinda disappointed that he doesn't transform when the music change like Archdemon does, and he doesn't pull off unique mechanic like Archdemon's Demon Scream or Anti-Magic 2, he is kind of annoying however as almost all of his attacks (even spells that we can learn) have a Mind Down and Power Down effect meaning I had to constantly recast buff with Lise (Mind Up in priority), while Duran and Angela were dealing the damage with Eruptive Sword and Spells (after using Anti Magic and a Shadow Zero's eye at the beginning of the fight).

Oddly his Flare which is suppose to be his strongest attack does less damage than Giga burn or Spiral Moon, at one point he cast Protect Up and Power Up not that much of a deal tough I just cast Power Down with Angela and continue the offensive.

On a side note on my opinion on the game in general outside of the actual Final Boss (Archdemon was more fun to fight), I say Dragon Emperor's storyline was more interesting story wise than Dark Prince route, also the final dungeon (not Mana Holyland) was more challenging and better I think.

As for my team Duelist, Arch Mage and Vanadis I say over all I had a much harder time with mobs than Ninja Master, Star Lancer and Bishop but also an easier time with bosses overall, maybe cause the Jutsu being naturally MT where usefull for mobs for debuffing them while damaging them at the same time, and Marduke inflicting Silence was so much usefull (also Vanadis getting Heal Light only at LV43 definitly make the early and mid game overall tougher), Vanadis's Freya even with final weapon wasn't that usefull but I think that's due to Lise being more of a support in this party while Duran and Angela were solid offensive, for bosses however Duelist, Arch Mage and Vanadis are a very efficient party, Duran can easily set Sabers, Vanadis buffs and Angela's debuff (Power Down and Mind Down) and once they get their Final Weapons Duelist and Arch Mage does some huge damage that can tear bosses apart while Vanadis support them.

Will see how Kevin/Carlie's route goes, but for now I'm gonna take a beak from this game.

 

Edited by Nesouk

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Dumb question inbound.

I'm finally getting around to trying out some of the "converts buffs to debuffs and vice versa" items and I'm finding that I'm having issues with targeting now. I'm trying to cast Power Down on my allies with the reversing item equipped but it still says only "one/all enemies" as acceptable targets and I can't hit my allies with the spell even after cycling through all possible targets. It does cast Power Up on enemies when I use i however.

I'm sure I'm missing something obvious here. Any advice?

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Dunno, maybe try the README?

Spoiler

===Controls===

A: attack, confirm, interact
B: run (even in battle), cancel
X: open ring menu, skip spell animations (only if "skippable_spell_animation" patch is applied)
Y: use techs (in battle), invert ally/enemy targetting for selected spell (hold while selecting the spell before starting target selection)
Y+B: open menu (out of battle)
L/R: hold to control different character
START: open inventory (out of battle), toggle control on/off (player 2&3)
SELECT: switch to different character

 

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I did say it was a dumb question and that I probably missed something obvious, in my defense :D thanks bossman.

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Hmm just wanted to share some glitchs I encounter while playing my Kevin, Hawk and Carlie's playthrough :

-Mispolm, I think this one is the same kind of what cause your character to be petrify when he cast Stone Cloud on himself, turns out that it seems that effect will occur with anything that can inflict statut effect, as during my first try I had forgot to remove Hawk's weapon that can inflict Silence, and at one point when I was attacking him my character were instantly getting silenced, as soon I change Hawk's weapon it never happen again.

-Silver knight, I don't know why but for some reason after using Demon Breath and Rogue's Crescent Silver Knight was just spamming Tinkle Rain until I kill him he was doing nothing else, it makes him really easy on one hand but on the other makes him annoying as he is constantly pausing the action for that, this has happen 3 times by now.

-Lightgazer, OK this one is weird cause I never had any glitches with him in my previous playthroughs, there is some weird thing happening in this fight like sometime Lightgazer is starting to reappear then instantly teleport on another place (it's NOT his usual teleportation this one is instant, and give a weird animation where his eye is floating wide open while the rest of his body appear as normal), even worse he can completly dissappear from the fight and never come back, the weirdest thing about this is that this happen to me 2 time in a row and both time I could hear his jumping sound effect once (despite him not being on the field), and then nothing he just completly dissappear forcing me to reset.

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1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

-Mispolm, I think this one is the same kind of what cause your character to be petrify when he cast Stone Cloud on himself, turns out that it seems that effect will occur with anything that can inflict statut effect, as during my first try I had forgot to remove Hawk's weapon that can inflict Silence, and at one point when I was attacking him my character were instantly getting silenced, as soon I change Hawk's weapon it never happen again.

The stone cloud thing is intentional - that's why he casts it on himself in the first place.
The thorns take the last "spell" that the thorn-bearer was hit by and inflict status based on that;
did you hit Mispolm with a lv2/3 tech before the silencing?
Those count as spells as well - lv1 doesn't.

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

-Silver knight, I don't know why but for some reason after using Demon Breath and Rogue's Crescent Silver Knight was just spamming Tinkle Rain until I kill him he was doing nothing else, it makes him really easy on one hand but on the other makes him annoying as he is constantly pausing the action for that, this has happen 3 times by now.

I feel like I had that question like a billion times - that is still the same behavior as in vanilla.
The AI runs its checks for what to do next faster than it gets to execute them because of spell queues, lag and stuff so it runs the same check 2-5 times before it gets the spell off and puts the spell that often into its queue.
This is necessary else you could completely skip revenge spells or certain phases by pushing sufficient aggro at the right time.
Or create an infinite loop by having an enemy that reacts both to negative status and low HP but queuing tinkle rain and heal light and overwriting each other.

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

-Lightgazer, OK this one is weird cause I never had any glitches with him in my previous playthroughs, there is some weird thing happening in this fight like sometime Lightgazer is starting to reappear then instantly teleport on another place (it's NOT his usual teleportation this one is instant, and give a weird animation where his eye is floating wide open while the rest of his body appear as normal), even worse he can completly dissappear from the fight and never come back, the weirdest thing about this is that this happen to me 2 time in a row and both time I could hear his jumping sound effect once (despite him not being on the field), and then nothing he just completly dissappear forcing me to reset.

I swear I had the same issue with Landumber here as well - and Fiegmund as well in both this mod and vanilla; just like my nemesis Gildervine at one point in vanilla just refused to end his invulnerable phase transition in vanilla.

I don't know what it is in this game; something can cause the AI to literally just die.
I'd guess it is related to whatever causes other weirdness to creep up when you don't reload a save ingame for some time.
But I could never find that out either.

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Hello all - quick question for anyone who can help!
I've just patched this onto a clean, unheadered, translated rom, and all seems well. I then start the game as Lise - however, upon comparing her starting stats to the stats listed in the Classes notepad provided in the mod download, they're entirely different... I appear to have her vanilla starting stats. Is this intentional? Are the stats in the document just her final stats for the class before the class change occurs, or are they supposed to be her base stats?
I spent quite a bit of time playing around with Lunar, Tush, the mod, various ROMs, and so on, just to make sure this was done correctly as I'm extremely excited to replay one of my favourite games with a brand new (and much more difficult :D) polish - so I'd like to think that my methods shouldn't have an issue. I'm using Snex9x for what it's worth.

Is there anything I'm missing? Are her base stats of 5/5/4/4/4/3 intentional or are they supposed to be the 11/11/10/10/10/9 listed in Classes.txt? Sorry if I'm just being dumb! Just want to make sure things are working for me before I invest time into this.
Thanks in advance for any help!

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All stats in the readme are the max stats for each class. You definitely ain't getting stats in the 10s at level 1

Edited by Kei

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36 minutes ago, Kei said:

All stats in the readme are the max stats for each class. You definitely ain't getting stats in the 10s at level 1

So everything is as should be then - wonderful! Thanks for clarifying.

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Any way to reduce the grind for W/A Seeds? There's too many possible outcomes, getting final weapons is being incredibly time consuming

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If you don't mind save states and want to save some sanity just kill a monster that can drop a W/A Seed (preferably with Beastman Collars), make a save state before opening the chest then just open the chest and reload over and over again until you get the W/A Seed, this sound cheap but frankly I don't like that kind of tedious thing that are just make to waste your time.

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I guess he meant the other half as well - W/A seeds have many possible outcomes and those are harder to save abuse.

And no, I've no idea how to reduce that.

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I found an easy way to get all the final weapons pretty quickly, usually in less than an hour, that doesn't use save states. After the third Godbeast, head to Moonreading Tower. Save outside. There are two rooms on the first floor; go back and forth until you find a Lesser Demon. Use Beastman Collars to farm these guys until you get three W/A seeds - these should be all you need. Then head back to Mintos, make sure you have 20 item seeds, and save at the inn.

Reload from your save point to start. Plant all three W/A seeds; if there is a final weapon in them, remember the position. Reload from your save point and fill the non-final weapon positions with item seeds. Basically, you can advance the list of final weapons by planting item seeds; if the third W/A seed is a final weapon, then using two item seeds followed by a W/A seed will also give you that weapon, but save you the other two W/A seeds. If you want, you can go even further down the list by using more item seeds before W/A seeds; with 20 item seeds and 3 W/A seeds, you have 23 list positions to check. There are even more positions to check if you keep mixing the order of the seeds, but 23 positions should on average give you the three final weapons. If you can't find one or two of them, keep your extra W/A seeds and check later when the the RNG has reset. The basic trick here is that restarting from a save point does not seem to automatically reset the RNG with respect to items from planted seeds. I have not looked at the code at all, so all this was just found by experiment, but I imagine it should work with any setup.

Note: ??? seed items seem to be on a separate list that item seeds do not advance, so you cannot choose your class change items this way. But you can use item seeds to advance all the other seed items I believe.

Edited by rpschamp

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8 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

I guess he meant the other half as well - W/A seeds have many possible outcomes and those are harder to save abuse.

And no, I've no idea how to reduce that.

Just follow this steps once you get the seeds :

-Save at an inn.
-Plant a seed if you get something you want save and plant again.
-If you don't get something you want then do as follow :
1-Reset the game (to get your seed back, you can use save state before plantig the seed for that)
2-Save (a real save not save state) in a different Save Slot
3-Reset and Load your save
4-Don't plant the seed right away else you will get the same result, go kill some monsters (usually I do this in Jad cause at this point you should one shot the mobs) you don't need victory just kill 1 or 2 monsters.
5-Save and plant again you should get a diffrerent result.

Repeat this process until you get what you want it doesn't take to long, unless you are really unlucky.

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Cardinal Eye: Does Pressure work on Lightgazer? Has anyone found any other use for it? Magatama's Curse is so useful, I'd suspect there would be some great use for it's counterpart.

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lightgazer, fmh refight, heath, archdemon, a couple random mobs - honestly, it is less useful than curse

Edited by praetarius5018

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