Seiken Densetsu 3 Sin of Mana - Discussion

[rpschamp 0]

7 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I've no idea what to look for here.

Yeah, sorry I can't be of more help here. I think this is just one of those bugs that can't be traced unless there is some obvious similarity between the memory values of, for instance, Garravilla and Black Hood or Faerie Hat and Ruby Band. (These are the only two switches I can remember for sure.)

How is Kevin's spell list coming along for 2.0?

[praetarius5018 111]

17 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Yeah, sorry I can't be of more help here. I think this is just one of those bugs that can't be traced unless there is some obvious similarity between the memory values of, for instance, Garravilla and Black Hood or Faerie Hat and Ruby Band. (These are the only two switches I can remember for sure.)

1A, 1C, 18 - I don't see anything.
I'd be more helpful to know "when" that happens so we can track down the cause..

17 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

How is Kevin's spell list coming along for 2.0?

Tbh, not at all.

[rpschamp 0]

24 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I'd be more helpful to know "when" that happens so we can track down the cause..

Unfortunately, it's really impossible for me to tell exactly when it happens since I've only noticed it when changing equipment after saving at an inn. It could have happened when saving at the inn or anytime prior, so this seems unhelpful. It's such a rare bug too, and no one else has reported it, so it might not be worth solving.

I have not noticed it in the current 1.2 version yet.

26 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Tbh, not at all.

Cool, I'll just check back later at the forum. I'm excited to see what you're thinking of, your other 2.0 classes look awesome.

[smileless 0]

4 hours ago, rpschamp said:

One other bug I previously reported: sometimes one of the helmets in my inventory will become another helmet in the game. I have seen this happen with multiple helmets, but not with any other type of equipment, so I can't verify whether this bug affects other types of equipment. Sometimes the resulting helmet will be for a character who is not in my party, so I know that I did not just purchase it by accident. Sometimes this is nice, as when my Faerie Hat turned into a Ruby Band, which I promptly sold at profit. But most of the time this causes me to revert to a previous save point or backtrack and buy a replacement if it's not too expensive.

This never happened to me.

[fooness 0]

Hello everyone!

Having read lots about Sin of Mana, I would like to try it for myself.

But, as Sin of Mana unfortunately is not compatible with the Trials of Mana rom (and I wholeheartedly wish it would be), and as the original Neil Cornett English translation patch is not compatible with the Seiken Densetsu 3 (Japan) no-intro rom, I wanted to ask if there’s maybe any no-intro compatible English translation patch available somewhere so that I could try out Sin of Mana …

(I think to have read somewhere that it might be possible to un-header the patch, but I don’t know nothing about these things plus, if there’s any ready-to-download tools, I fear most tools won’t run on my non-Windows operating system.)

Thank you for your help.

—

PS: Also, could anyone elaborate on two controls which are stated in the README? Maybe that’s something I might understand after testing Sin of Mana … for now I don’t quite get what Y does and why opening the menu requires Y+B?

Y: use techs (in battle), invert ally/enemy targetting for selected spell (hold while selecting the spell before starting target selection)
Y+B: open menu (out of battle)

Edited June 30, 2020 by fooness
added second question

[Nesouk 49]

Y allow you use your tech in battle and holding it why selecting a spell allow to invert the targetting, like casting Heal Light on ennemies, or offensive spells on your party (has his use in some set up).

I don't get the Y+B thing myself, weither it's in or out battle the menu is open by pressing X, the main menu is open by pressing Start and the inventory menu only by pressing Y out of battle.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Nesouk

[Serafie1999AD 4]

6 hours ago, Nesouk said:

I don't get the Y+B thing myself, weither it's in or out battle the menu is open by pressing X, the main menu is open by pressing Start and the inventory menu only by pressing Y out of battle.

When you press B+Y, it opens the party planning menu with 3x3 submenus, i.e. this one:

Why it opens with B+Y instead of just Y is probably so that you wouldn't accidentally open the sluggish menu when you're using a tech at the end of a battle.

[praetarius5018 111]

3 hours ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Why it opens with B+Y instead of just Y is probably so that you wouldn't accidentally open the sluggish menu when you're using a tech at the end of a battle.

Exactly that.
Had it a billion times that a battle suddenly ends while I was about to perform a tech and that hurls me into that menu because there was 0 delay between a monster hitting 0 HP and the game checking for the menu.

[hmsong 0]

On 5/8/2020 at 6:14 PM, praetarius5018 said:

v1.00, v1.01, v1.01 with color palette rape, v1.01 with bug fixes, some mixture with other patches, ...

Apparently, someone asked this question, and you answered this.  There is v1.01 with bug fixes?  Is this bug fix specifically for the translation errors, like the ones I mentioned?

[Highandry 0]

Hi I am using the latest version and have been enjoying the hardest difficulty until I got to rolante. For whatever reason there is now a big  glitch where if I using round drops, pakkun in combat it does damage to me instead of healing. I am able to use these items out of combat just fine.  I went back to other areas of the game where this glitch didn't exist and now it happens there as well. My party is level 16... Any idea what is happening?  Really don't want to have to start over, but am finding it difficult to progress now that I can't heal during combat at all. 

Edited August 13, 2020 by Highandry

[praetarius5018 111]

Sounds like you equipped the undead armor, all items have effects, not just stats, check the xls sheet for details.

[Highandry 0]

16 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Sounds like you equipped the undead armor, all items have effects, not just stats, check the xls sheet for details.

Gotcha, yea I am seeing that now because I have Soft Leather equipped and in excel it says "Heals Hurts".

  Any reason why you chose this?  I mean it isn't called undead armor or anything ingame.

I am loving your work so far either way, reading all of the excel files now and I am blown away.

 

My other question is, I am virtualizing this via PSNES on my Switch... which is running off of Snes9x architecture.  I read that you said the mod wouldn't work on Zsnes or Snes9x, does it cause bugs or anything?  If not those emulators, what ones do you recommend.

 

Thanks

[praetarius5018 111]

only old versions of Snes9x have shown problems, more recent ones were fine.
well, as fine as sd3 can run.

[blasingame 0]

Hello,

I have tried to run this on the SNES classic (canoe emulator).  I seem to get stuck on a black screen when I press (A) at the title screen.  Perhaps the SNESC is not officially supported yet.  I have tried this on a rom prepatched english translated that has been converted to a SFROM and then have applied the Sin of Mana patch on it.  Has anyone found a solution for this?

[TahnL 0]

The rom file is too large for canoe to run it so you should install another emulator. I used retroarch with a snes9x core and it runs fine

[praetarius5018 111]

so to sum up the changelog for 2.0:
tl;dw

Spoiler

• added Lv60 capstones
• inbattle item use now costs 4 TP
• changed damage color logic:

1. red = regular attack damage
2. purple = tech damage, spell damage
3. yellow = critical attack damage, counter tech damage
4. green = healing

• characters can now only have 10 spells instead of 12
• changed spell loadouts of all classes (all classes have 12 spell options)
• increased variety of needed stats for spell learning
• prepatched with english translation to cut down on patching error related issues
• renamed some spells and items to better reflect their effects
• added misc. patch that disables messages for status ailments and (de)buffs
• added initial inventory of 5 candies and 2 puipui grass
• increased damage of critical regular player attacks and Lv1 techs by 28%
• reduced damage of non-critical regular player attacks by 8%
• increased damage modifier of strong attack from (atk x (135+STR)/128)+6 to ((atk+AGL) x (150+STR)/128)+4+STR/2
• can now only gain TP once per weapon swing (in case of lag the TP gain may only happen after the weapon is ready again so it blocks the TP gain for that 2nd swing)
• as long as a helm is equipped, evade/4 reduces Lv1 tech damage%
• made the monster scaling patch work even before getting the 3rd party member
• sign posts no longer count as monster for the sake of cast time calculation
• some bosses can now land critical hits with their spells and have 25% less base damage; crit rate and damage adjustment identical to regular attacks
• enemies no longer try to perform extra actions when their hate value reaches 100% instead they receive a small heal (relative to total damage taken, capped at 300) and deal ~32% more damage for a short duration
• reduced HP curve growth for monster&bosses (~20% at max)
• reduced damage reduction of high level enemies (~20% more damage against lv90+ enemies)
• reduced monster crit rate with high luck advantage (most extreme: 200% -> 150%)
• reduced monster expected luck curve slightly (at Lv90: 29 -> 28)
• reduced attack spread for regular mobs by type (strong mobs a bit weaker, weak mobs a bit stronger)
• physical resistant enemies now take +25% damage from counters, was +20%
• high level enemies deal a bit more damage; higher multiplier after defense making defense more worthwhile
• made needlebirds and cockabirds immune to snowman status as removing the status from them crashes the game
• increased HP of Bill/Ben slightly
• increased defensive stats of Tzenker
• increased HP and defense of Gorva
• increased attack and defense of Lugar, reduced HP and aggro limit
• added one aspect of Fiegmund to DarkLich to complete the set of godbeast based powers on him
• Dark Lich now uses Ghost Road instead of Geyseblast
• increased strength of Gildervine's gimmick
• Frost Dragons no longer inflict snowman with their attacks, instead get slightly increased attack power
• Sea Dragon's breath attack no longer inflicts snowman
• Death Machine's laser attack no longer inflicts snowman
• Full Metal Hagger no longer inflicts poison with his default attack
• Dangaard now gives 0 exp (level up lag of phase change can crash the game) but double the previous money reward
• buffed Dolan AI, replaced Energy Ball with Focus Charge
• Spiral Moon now pierces defense
• Zable Fahrs left head inflicts now poison instead of snowman
• Archdemon's Jutsus can no longer be reflected via thorns armor or curse
• reduced INT based bonus monster get on L2/3 techs
• reduced HP of seashore cave miniboss by 25%
• when enemies use buffs they are now subject to counters just like with damage spells
• fixed a bug that made the "not affected by thorns" property check on the wrong character
• fixed a bug that made attacks in mini status have unpredictable results, including crashes
• increased base exp gain rate
• increased HP gain for the first 15 level ups, decreased post Lv50
• adjusted maxMP by INT curve
• cursed items can no longer be equipped on characters of Lv61 or higher, equipped cursed items still stay equipped
• added some armor set bonuses
• reduced flat +atk bonus from countering
• Gladius tier weapons now draw aggro (only melee) and penalize defense
• Molebear Claw and Roundel Dagger heal (maxHP x (luck+10)/512 + (luck+1)/2) HP instead of (maxHP x (luck+10)/256 + (luck+1)/2) HP
• Bastard Sword type weapons are now regular heavy attack instead of low scaling; additionally they grant super armor during power attack cooldown
• Colichimarde type weapons now gain additional crit rate based on TP x2 instead of x3
• Defender type weapons now increase p.def and set p.atk = p.def instead of inflicting chibikko status
• Dragonbane type weapons no longer inflict petrification, instead they make Lv2/3 techs deal damage like non-elemental INT-based spells and spell casting generate 2 TP; does not stack with same effect
• increased crit rate bonus of Flamberge type weapon from 7 to 18
• decreased crit rate bonus of Gladius type weapon from 0 to -100 and increased their hitrate from 10 to 20
• cut damage from Orihalcon improved Half Vanish in half
• Leather Visor tier helms now are pure physical defense instead of mixed
• Protection Helm tier helms now give x1.25 p.def but defenselessness against L3 techs
• Hero's Crown tier helms now allow MP regen ticks during casting and spell animation but provide 1 MP less per MP regen tick
• Visored Helm tier helms now resist chibikko, moogle and silence instead of having 2 resistances that vary by character
• weakness cancelling helm for base class weakness now removes all weaknesses
• increased damage bonus from counter helm from +25% to +35%
• Pegasus tier armors now resists petrify, sleep, poison instead of having 2 resistances that vary by character
• Swordsman Armor tier armors are now medium level defense instead of light-medium; bonus changed to spell dodge for half damage
• the spell power increase from Skeleton tier armors is no longer capped at Lv 3.5
• Hero's armor tier armor now empowers the power up buff for standard, critical and L1 tech attacks to x2 instead of x1.25 and disables counter
• fixed Lammelar tier armor breaking techs if too much TP is gained before the user lands his first real hit
• Knight armor tier armor now provides auto-buff spell upgrade instead of its previous effect
• Dragon Ring now gives immunity to standard debuffs instead of HP steal
• Protect Ring freezes death score at 1 (no HP loss but disqualified for deathless) on battle victory
• Ancient Talisman and Marble Ring now teach a spell when equipped instead of their previous effects
• Leather Neckband now gives HP steal instead of 5 accuracy&evade
• increased base defense increase from Blackshade Ring from 7 to 10
• the elemental resistance accessoires now also cancel weakness to the same element
• increased regeneration of Mad Beast Fang but made it non-stacking
• effect of healing items now scales with user level
• some more item changes that were forgotten by time...
• helms can now give up to +4 maxMP
• added the six primary L1 spells to the list of spells affected by Whitelight Ring
• switched order of Death Hand and Dervish in Bashkar class preview (D/L <-> D/D)
• changed Puipui Grass to work like Tinkle Rain
• changed healing items and heal spells to scale with level
• changed dummy skill Regeneration to a heal spell that also adds same regeneration effect as Mad Beast Fang
• Regeneration also sufficies to qualify for victory healing
• Replaced Countermagic spell with Resistance which removes weaknesses
• fixed cast time in menu again
• adjusted cast time values
• Charlie's elemental summons are now based on INT
• increased cost of Black Rain from 8 to 11
• increased cost of Aura Wave from 10 to 16, made it cast much faster
• Deathspell behaves like a Lv4 dark spell against mobs; against player it now ignores level difference
• Turn Undead no longer checks for level, cost increased from 15 to 17
• increased duration of sleep status on player
• can now again gain TP while silenced, instead tech damage is drastically reduced
• if somehow a spell is cast while silenced (e.g. Magitech weapon), damage is halved
• casting state no longer protects against status effects

Edited December 21, 2020 by praetarius5018

[smileless 0]

Find it really cool that it got the Sin of Mana written now in game.

That's a lot to take in, but for now, I definitely will try using the patch that removes messages of status alinments/buffs/debuffs. And less Snowman woo

Hopefully it will run better now, look forward to try these new features.

[praetarius5018 111]

a typical SD3 day.
while testing it reset the rage value after popping the heal, now it just keeps it maxed out and drops a heal each hit...
or at least until you cancel that with a counter hit.

"love" this game -.-

[praetarius5018 111]

v2.006

• fixed monster hate value not getting reset when getting the heal
• reduced strength of poison to 25% while below level 10
• removed random 0..3 damage bonus on poison ticks
• reduced stats of pre-lv10 monster
• nerfed Full Metal Hagger AI again
• Bubble Breath now inflicts MP Down instead of Poison

[smileless 0]

Spoiler

Can't seem to land a single hit on Genova unless I use a spell. Is this intentional?

 

[smileless 0]

Spoiler

Nice also of Tzenker to turn all characters into moogle while having no way to act against that unless you have TP, or had equipped items that resists that status which I had to backtrack for that.

So far, can't say that I am a big fan of the item limitations with Tech Points. I was sceptic about that when I read that feature will be implemented in 2.0 but I still gonna give it a shot and see what to make of it.

Edited December 23, 2020 by smileless

[Serafie1999AD 4]

Congratulations for the new release! I was planning to continue my last run on this Christmas vacation, but since I hadn't got very far yet, I might as well start a new run with the current version. Since there's plenty of changes, I'll read through the documentary files first, to catch up with the changes.

My first question is about the Scapegoat weapon. The description in the documentary is, "draw aggro (minor), def down". Does this mean the weapon reduces the defence of the wearer, or that the weapon causes def down on the enemy?

My second question is about the new spell Regeneration. If you teach that spell to someone, will your party auto-heal after a victorious battle, or is Heal Light required for auto-heal after victory?

[smileless 0]

10 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

My second question is about the new spell Regeneration. If you teach that spell to someone, will your party auto-heal after a victorious battle, or is Heal Light required for auto-heal after victory?

It auto-heals I tried that. But be aware it's a cursed item I am wondering if it can be unequipped at level 61 or not. Otherwise I may have messed up big time. Or maybe not since the character that has it doesn't have heal light on the final class so it might not be too bad, and it still might be worth if you wont have heal light till your final class change.

But if you have heal light on your first class change skip that ring I would say.

Edited December 23, 2020 by smileless

[praetarius5018 111]

1 hour ago, smileless said:

So far, can't say that I am a big fan of the item limitations with Tech Points. I was sceptic about that when I read that feature will be implemented in 2.0 but I still gonna give it a shot and see what to make of it.

I presented it far in advance and got basically nothing except complaints that I take away their OP toys.
2x Chibi Hammer and no status matters.
20 each candies, chocolates, honey, poto oils, various seeds - how much instant healing do you need?
I have to draw the line somewhere.

For healing you have a lot of alternatives:
-Heal Light, Regeneration
-HP regen via ring or Regeneration spell
-Bishop's weapon
-moon saber, hp steal ring/weapon
-yellow heal weapon
-the totally not bloodborne set bonus

Also all that menuing slows the action down way too much, imo.

Did I forget about moogle state? Well, yes.
But I did work around mute at least >.>

1 hour ago, Serafie1999AD said:

My first question is about the Scapegoat weapon. The description in the documentary is, "draw aggro (minor), def down". Does this mean the weapon reduces the defence of the wearer, or that the weapon causes def down on the enemy?

Wearer.
Originally I wanted to keep draw aggro exclusive to shields but people felt it too restrictive since having a working tank is too important to them and only Duran or Lise can take that role.
So you have now aggro on a high attack weapon that costs you a bit def; needed some form of drawback there.

1 hour ago, Serafie1999AD said:

My second question is about the new spell Regeneration. If you teach that spell to someone, will your party auto-heal after a victorious battle, or is Heal Light required for auto-heal after victory?

It counts for that.

1 hour ago, smileless said:

But be aware it's a cursed item I am wondering if it can be unequipped at level 61 or not. Otherwise I may have messed up big time. Or maybe not since the character that has it doesn't have heal light on the final class so it might not be too bad, and it still might be worth if you wont have heal light till your final class change.

Cursed items can never be unequipped.
Lv60 is only the last point where they can be equipped.
Something about synergy with certain capstones or potential abuse if you only equip them to perfectly counter the final boss when half the drawbacks no longer matter.

[Nesouk 49]

54 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I presented it far in advance and got basically nothing except complaints that I take away their OP toys.
2x Chibi Hammer and no status matters.
20 each candies, chocolates, honey, poto oils, various seeds - how much instant healing do you need?
I have to draw the line somewhere.

For healing you have a lot of alternatives:
-Heal Light, Regeneration
-HP regen via ring or Regeneration spell
-Bishop's weapon
-moon saber, hp steal ring/weapon
-yellow heal weapon
-the totally not bloodborne set bonus

Also all that menuing slows the action down way too much, imo.

Did I forget about moogle state? Well, yes.
But I did work around mute at least >.>

I let that do the speak :

Didn't even get the time to get 4TP before the Supersonic + Air Blast, she barely let me hit her, so what I'm suppose to do here ? Beside obviously backtracking to get Moogle immune gear.