praetarius5018

Seiken Densetsu 3 Sin of Mana - Discussion

188 posts in this topic

Well I start playing, and to be honnest I actually never play the Vanilla version just start watching some LP and watch some reviews, originnally I wanted to play the vanilla version before this mod, but in the end I decided fuck it let's be crazy and I set the mod on the Hardest difficulty and start playing the game. So yeah here I am the newcomer that play this mod on Hard, I have read the classes note and keep the equipment file to see. As such I do not expect to get a optimal party or anything like that so yeah.

As for my party I took Lise as the main character, Hawk and Carlie as support gotta say with the Hard Mod the beginning with Lise can be quite with no means to heal, specially those assassin cause they can put poison, well at least it's a good way to acknowledge that getting poisonned is really bad, well at least it instantly vanish when you change screen, once I get to town buying some healing Items doesn't seem like a bad idea ^^, as for stat for now I primarly concentrate on STR and VIT for Lise, AGL and STR for Hawk and PIE for Carlie (even tough she has no spell at the moment).

Well I will not describe everything but anyway I made it to the first boss at LV8 with my party lose a couple of times because of this goddamn poison and his AoE attacks hit a lot and he can heal himself 100 HP how lovely I had to use almost all my Healing item just to survive, in the head I manage to beat him with only Hawk dead, speaking of Hawk I realise that his Max HP has been reduce after he dies which seems normal (the guy I was watching the LP that got me interest in this mod mentions something like that) but when I go to the menu I also realise that his Defense and MDef are at 0 and I have armor puts on him so is that normal ?

Anyway for now I stopped playing just after Duran release me from my cell.

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Posted (edited)

When dieing (and not reviving via Angel Grail) you get a penalty to HP and both defenses.
0 def at that stage might be possible, not sure.
The next chance you get sleep at an inn to remove that penalty and check if def becomes normal again.

Just as a hint, you'll want some VIT and PIE on everyone, especially on hard difficulty.

Edited by praetarius5018
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I see so that's a Dark Souls 2 like penalty well I will check when I get the chance to sleep at an Inn.

YEAH the boss make me realise that the Defensive stats are important especially considering that it seems some powerfull attack (from boss especially) can't be dodge, and I will need PIE for Lise anyway to learn her spells from what I read, I will definitly put some point toward VIT for Hawk.

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Well, dodging in this game is a strange thing.

If it freezes the action, it can't be dodged (every spell, Lv2+ techs, etc.), it just hits.

If it is a projectile you may be able to negate it by using a well-timed Lv1 tech.
If you don't, it might check four your evade. Though several projectiles are spells in disguise which auto-hit.

If it is a melee attack, the sentiment with Lv1 tech still applies but that is more or less down to luck.
Some melee attacks are the same as your Lv1 tech, those always hit as well if you are in range.

In short, there's a ton of damage that is just unavoidable.

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2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Just as a hint, you'll want some VIT and PIE on everyone, especially on hard difficulty.

You'll need some LUCK too, or the enemies will just beat you up with critical hits. In the original game, the Luck stat is almost useless, while in this hack, it could be considered even too important compared to the other stats. It affects your chance to do a critical hit, your chance to avoid enemy's critical hits, your evasion (partially), your chance to cause status ailments with weapons, the amount of traps in a treasure wheel, your chance to get rare drops, the bonus damage for several mage classes and it powers up Light Hawk's traps.

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2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Well, dodging in this game is a strange thing.

If it freezes the action, it can't be dodged (every spell, Lv2+ techs, etc.), it just hits.

If it is a projectile you may be able to negate it by using a well-timed Lv1 tech.
If you don't, it might check four your evade. Though several projectiles are spells in disguise which auto-hit.

If it is a melee attack, the sentiment with Lv1 tech still applies but that is more or less down to luck.
Some melee attacks are the same as your Lv1 tech, those always hit as well if you are in range.

In short, there's a ton of damage that is just unavoidable.

Well that's odd so basically is there really any point to evasion ? Because from the look of it it seems pretty useless to increase evasion and more efficient to just be able to take the hits.

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It certainly sounds so but regular attacks are still the majority outside of boss fights.
I'd estimate about 70% are normal attacks there, so it is not entirely useless.

For bosses... rule of thumb:
if it is a human sized enemy evasion has a point otherwise evasion respecting moves are the minority.

Does that help?

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Posted (edited)

So basically Evasion good for normal and some bosses I think I get it anyway I pass the Golems on the bridge they were way easier than the previous Boss even tough they hit hard.

Also got some recording of the boss fight if anyone interested :

Full Metal Hunger
Golems

 

Edited by Nesouk
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Posted (edited)

Those Golems are supposed to be "easy".
You've just fought a hard boss and are close to the next hard boss, 3 brick walls in a row is not ok.

Spoiler

Plus you meet them again later when they have been repaired and debugged.
The first encounter is the flawed prototype.

 

Also, it doesn't matter who uses coins, their base damage is based on level, not stats.

Edited by praetarius5018
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Stacking Evasion can be really effective on some Bosses. Bill&Ben are the prime example.

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Posted (edited)

Well just beat Jewel Eater at this point it's clear that Random Fight aren't that much trouble however for bosses just have to throw everything I got in their face, I throw all my Attack Item (except Earth Coin as he nullifies Earth) also the item that increase Defense and multiple Holy Ball with Carlie, don't know how many HP he had but quite a lot I am LV17 (I had to grind a little I reach Jewel Eater at LV14 but couldn't beat him so I grind after that which give some nice items anyway so that's good) I don't know if I am underlevel or what but with the Defense UP item Hawk and Lise were pretty safe as long as I keep an eye on their HP I had to be more cautious with Carlie tough since she died in battle not so long before the boss so she Had less HP and was taking more damage (except for spell has she has an high PIE), by the way speaking of item what is a Demon Statue, the description say nothing.

Jewel Eater

 

Edited by Nesouk
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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

Well just beat Jewel Eater at this point it's clear that Random Fight aren't that much trouble however for bosses just have to throw everything I got in their face, I throw all my Attack Item (except Earth Coin as he nullifies Earth) also the item that increase Defense and multiple Holy Ball with Carlie, don't know how many HP he had but quite a lot I am LV17 (I had to grind a little I reach Jewel Eater at LV14 but couldn't beat him so I grind after that which give some nice items anyway so that's good) I don't know if I am underlevel or what but with the Defense UP item Hawk and Lise were pretty safe as long as I keep an eye on their HP I had to be more cautious with Carlie tough since she died in battle not so long before the boss so she Had less HP and was taking more damage (except for spell has she has an high PIE), by the way speaking of item what is a Demon Statue, the description say nothing.

Note that you won't be able to level up beyond level 18 until you've performed your first class change, and after Jewel Eater, you'll need to clear

Spoiler

Molebear Highlands, Forcena, Mt. Palo, Rabite Forest and Corridor of the Wind

before the class change. That's 5 areas, though some of them are quite short. I'd say you're heavily overleveled at the moment. The levels of regular enemies should be a good indicator to how high your levels should be. As for the Demon Statue, I'll have to ask you to check the documentation:

 

Quote

===Death Penalty===

Each death that was not ended via Angel Grail increases a hidden death score (normal difficulty and higher).
Failing a trap chest from Lv36 on also increases it slightly (tough difficulty and higher).
Once death score is accumulated, max HP and defenses will be reduced.
Max HP decreases by ~10% per death, the lowest possible is 50% of the normal value.
Defenses drop by up to -90 over 7 deaths.
A death in the intro fights does count. For that purpose Kevin's "invincible" enemy has been reduced from 65k HP to 300.
Death score can be removed by using a Demon Statue or resting at an Inn.
These statues are ONLY awarded by beating certain bosses and appear unannounced in your storage; you do not get another status if you already have 5 in your storage.

 

Edited by Serafie1999AD
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9 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Note that you won't be able to level up beyond level 18 until you've performed your first class change

you'll still gain the exp, so nothing is lost; same will happen later for lv38

bosses are generally 1-2 levels above their minions, mostly to give more exp for level rubber banding purposes.
also levels will matter less as time goes on, so don't stress over that too much. (de)buffs and equip will matter much more.

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Posted (edited)

18 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Note that you won't be able to level up beyond level 18 until you've performed your first class change, and after Jewel Eater, you'll need to clear

  Hide contents

Molebear Highlands, Forcena, Rabite Forest, Palo and Corridor of the Wind

before the class change. That's 5 areas, though some of them are quite short. I'd say you're heavily overleveled at the moment. The levels of regular enemies should be a good indicator to how high your levels should be. As for the Demon Statue, I'll have to ask you to check the documentation:

 

 

Overleveled really ? I'm kind of surprise as really the grind before Jewel Eater is really the only one willingly I did, but I guess being overleveled is a consequence of the fact that since I never that game before they were some point where I just didn't know what to do to progress and just wander around killing everything on sight while keeping the very first armor available (since they increase XP in this mod), but to be honnest with the Hard difficulty set it doesn't feel like I am overpowered which is good, so basically once I reach LV18 I will not be able to LVUP anymore until I got the class change well that's interesting.

OK so Demon Statue are basically like the item that restore your humanity in Dark Souls 2 well at least that is simple to understand. 

EDIT : 

 

Quote

 

you'll still gain the exp, so nothing is lost; same will happen later for lv38

bosses are generally 1-2 levels above their minions, mostly to give more exp for level rubber banding purposes.
also levels will matter less as time goes on, so don't stress over that too much. (de)buffs and equip will matter much more.

 

Well I figure that Buff/Debuff will be important considering how raising my Defense help me with Jewel Eater.

Edited by Nesouk
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You don't have any mandatory fights between Jewel Eater and the class change, so you only moved the grind from after him to before basically.
You also fight a boss almost right after getting the class change - I expect player to got back and get Lv19 before taking on that boss since they get their first spells from that and those help a ton.
Just a warning though.

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Posted (edited)

Alright also I think I have a glitch tough it's more of a graphical glitch as it doesn't impact anything as far as I'm concern, I don't know why but for the second time an armor pop up out of nowhere in Carlie armor first time it was a Leather Visor now it back again but this time it's a Silver Circlet more on it when I look at the stat I get this :

gtxn.png

... And I can't equip it, fun fact tough I could sell the Leather Visor but I can't sell the Silver Circlet that pop up.

Edited by Nesouk
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Still don't see it..
You've noticed that each character has their own unique equipment inventory and the buy/sell system handles like crap?

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YEAH I notice each character have their own inventory as each time I want to buy Equipment I had to switch character and take of the character with which I want to buy stuff.

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I noticed the same bug a few days ago too. Lise had a Leather Visor in her inventory, which is a helmet belonging to Duran, even though Duran isn't even in my party. He's not in Nesouk's party, either.

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I'm afraid I need more info here before this turns into casttime 2.0 ...
Do those only appear in the armor tab? Any rough idea what actions happened before then?
Only Leather Visor and Silver Circlet or other too?
Do they get added or overwrite existing items?

Also, the hold X the skip animation patch also makes cutscene "spell animations" and boss explosions skippable just as normal spells, whoops?

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From my experience :

-It only appear in Carlie's armor inventory in my playthrough
-I don't think they overwrite other item (at least they don't overwrite any equipment for sure) so I assume they just appear and get added
-I didn't realise the Leather Visor at first so I don't know when he pop up however I'm certain that the Silver Circlet appear right after I buy a Sailor Dress for Carlie

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I have a quick question about the game's internal frame rate. Weapons have a delay of 50-70 frames. Does the game process 15, 20, 30 or 60 frames per second? In other words, does a weapon with a delay of 60 take 4, 3, 2 or 1 second to recharge? If you use a stronger version of the regular attack (holding A without direction), how much does that increase the delay before the next attack?

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Weapon delay is not really in frames but "process units".
Those have a varying length, I think you can get about 30 per second of those.
With lag the amount goes down a lot.

Strong attack simply doubles the delay.

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