Fein-Life

SpeedRun Questions

68 posts in this topic

I used them in the places where perfect blocking was the most important.  For Hyper M. Guard, I used them in places where status effects were a threat (the run doesn't have status protection for the most part).

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What would 100% hardmode speedrun be considered? Who makes up the rules on that?

 

I'm assuming:

All chests

Smithy

Magus

Pokemon defeated (not dawn and may subsequently though)

Rosalina

Terra

Xion

 

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100% would be "All Superbosses Defeated".  This is more or less what you said above.

Whether or not getting Lazy Shell should be required would be debatable.  As for who would do the debating, it's typically decided by the runners.

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In your opinion.. is 100% hardmode run possible? In less than 24 hrs

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39 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

In your opinion.. is 100% hardmode run possible? In less than 24 hrs

Yes.

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What do you think is the minimal setup for smithy?

 

I know from experimenting that you need a minimum of 227 defense in order to survive ultimatum. 

I was able to reach him at level 44 with Mario, 80 peach, 50 Bowser. My defense is 144 and the entire party gets wiped on his very first attack in his first phase.

 

So now I'm on a mission to find and equip the minimal gear and have at least one player reach 227 defense... Thoughts?

Side note: for Terra you need 230, Rosalina you need 235, Xion you need 240. Everyone else can be beaten with less than 230.

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Your goal for Smithy shouldn't be to survive Ultimatum... it should be to beat him before he uses it.

You'll still need to be able to survive his barrage of attacks (mainly his auto attack...), but it shouldn't be 227.

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I figured it would be faster to get to a point of surviving ultimatum than to get strong enough to kill him prior to using it.

 

I'm not sure how much HP he has on HM or what turn you have to kill him by.

 

I'm practicing right now and I think mandatory CELEBI as soon as you get master ball is the only way to get the items needed to progress - especially to a 100%

As far as level grinding, I think gold dragons are optimal from what I've found so far... Idk. 

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Fein-Life said:

As far as level grinding, I think gold dragons are optimal from what I've found so far... Idk. 

As an alternative after you beat Exor... Dark Dayzee gives 400* exp (compared to 200* per pair of gold dragons).  Don't forget your Siren!

For Smithy%, I cannot stress enough the value of demon mail+.  He has 150,000 health after transforming, and you have 6 turns to defeat him before Ultimatum.

*Per character exp gain will be one third of that due to how exp gain is calculated.

Edited by Doomsday31415
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On 5/5/2018 at 8:16 PM, Fein-Life said:

I've tried searching for Speed Runs and only found full game runs. Is there currently a speed Run of the Boss Rushes? 

 

I was thinking about starting boss rush speed runs - What are the rules on Fast Forwarding also..

if you were still interested in boss rush runs.  They way it is currently set up, you can prep your party before hand, going in with whatever weapons, equipment, lvs, etc.  The only rulings are that time starts at the start of said rush and that time ends once the rush ends.  

These were just meant to be extra little fun categories if people wanted to do them.

The main runs laid out currently are Defeat Smithy (end of 'story mode') and Defeat Xion (the true final boss).

No emulator functions can be used.  Play as if you were playing on actual console hardware. 

 

As far as other categories or ideas, I have not really received any suggestions from the community to consider at this time.  But thank you for your interest in speedruning this game.

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1 hour ago, WolfBladeEJ89 said:

if you were still interested in boss rush runs.  They way it is currently set up, you can prep your party before hand, going in with whatever weapons, equipment, lvs, etc.  The only rulings are that time starts at the start of said rush and that time ends once the rush ends.  

These were just meant to be extra little fun categories if people wanted to do them.

The main runs laid out currently are Defeat Smithy (end of 'story mode') and Defeat Xion (the true final boss).

No emulator functions can be used.  Play as if you were playing on actual console hardware. 

 

As far as other categories or ideas, I have not really received any suggestions from the community to consider at this time.  But thank you for your interest in speedruning this game.

Wow awesome!

I'm definitely going to do boss run speedrun - but is there one for hardmode? I only have access to them on hardmode and I don't think it would be much fun on easy..

As far as suggestions on speedrun categories, we were discussing 100% speedrun options and what that would actually entail.. thoughts?

I'm currently mapping out a hardmode speedrun route (and yes it is really hard...)

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Doomsday, do you remember where to get the Item Collector? (Thing that increases drop rate of hidden monster items)

 

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20 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

Doomsday, do you remember where to get the Item Collector? (Thing that increases drop rate of hidden monster items)

You'd have to beat General Guy for that.

 

2 hours ago, WolfBladeEJ89 said:

if you were still interested in boss rush runs.  They way it is currently set up, you can prep your party before hand, going in with whatever weapons, equipment, lvs, etc.  The only rulings are that time starts at the start of said rush and that time ends once the rush ends.  

That's a much shorter run than I thought it was.  Might have to give it a whirl.

When exactly does time start and end?

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I think I have a hardmode path but it's really long... I think a 1 day HM Xion is possible... But it would take close to 24 hrs

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Considering you can go through the entire game to Smithy in about 3 hours (ignoring grinding)... how does the 24 hours break down?

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It takes about 5-6 hours realistically to get to smithy on hardmode.

Mainly because you can't beat Mack with mallow without grinding.

Maybe you can do it faster but it's way too RNG in the early game.

 

I've played through hardmode 3 times since I started the speedrun process and I've gotten drastically better at timing which obviously allows me to approach areas at a lower level.. BUT one mistake and it's game over. There's no forgiveness in HM as you know...

 

So, the current route I have is basically:

Get to level 3, defeat Bowser

Get level 19 or 20, defeat MACK

As soon as you get the master ball, get Celebi.

Get peach darkstar asap (same as your run)

Get 3 diamond mail and level at least 1 up

Get the item Collector

Buy at least 10 poison shrooms

Farm Daisy (which will also level you up a lot - 100 exp. Per battle total) using Celebi

Get 1 adamantite and 2 demon mail and

Level them up

Defeat smithy

 

Thoughts?

 

 

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For the Xion fight the route would be grinding for the lazy shell, and getting to 240 defense as fast as possible... He's relatively easy after that.

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15 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

Mainly because you can't beat Mack with mallow without grinding.

Just in case you're not aware, Shocker can deal significantly more damage if you're frame perfect.  Ideally, Mario uses a USS, Mallow uses Shocker, and the Mario+Mallow finish Mack the next turn, leaving the bodyguards.

16 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

Get to level 3, defeat Bowser

You should be able to beat Bowser at level 1 with proper jumping.

18 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

As soon as you get the master ball, get Celebi.

Get peach darkstar asap (same as your run)

Get 3 diamond mail and level at least 1 up

This seems out of order, since you don't get the master ball until after exor...

20 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

Buy at least 10 poison shrooms

For what?

21 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

Defeat smithy

I like this part.

20 minutes ago, Fein-Life said:

For the Xion fight the route would be grinding for the lazy shell, and getting to 240 defense as fast as possible... He's relatively easy after that.

Right... so where did you come up with 24 hours from?

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Fight Mack again... I think you forgot that they will wipe your party out even with USS on hardmode.

 

I don't see you beating him lower than level 18 at best... Not without godlike RNG .

 

I've played vs Mack over 40 times on HM And I can't beat him consistently until level 18-20

As far as Celebi and master ball, I was out of order there.. sorry. I don't see a faster way to beat smithy other than getting Celebi and getting enough defense to stop his first attack - and obviously his later attacks.

 

I'm obviously not at your level on the routing and consistency, but I have great timing on attacks and blocks, it's not enough .

 

As far as Bowser, yes you can beat him sooner, but from what I find it's actually faster to level up their and use Rosalina and the fact that you respawn close to the enemies, than waiting u til later.

They also are easier than goombas, faster animations, and give the same exp. Your Bowser fight is also fast and hammer bro.

 

But, i digress. I haven't found a way to progress at a lower level yet.

 

I'm sure it's easily possible with enough practice. 

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The 24 he part was me just guessing because the latter half of the game is much harder and time consuming than the smithy half.

In order to beat Xion you have to be able to survive 3 attacks while blocking and you can't do that until 238-240 defense. Idk if you can beat him with less BUT the lowest I was able to defeat him with is 230 defense and that was with save states.. so RNG wise - it's theoretically possible with less defense but much harder, and if you lose, you might as well reset your entire file...

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I've only beaten Xion 8 times and it alone is at least a 40 minute fight. So 24 hours is reasonable.

Not to mention you will need top of the line gear which is obtained from rosalina, terra, dawn, and may... And lazy shell of course. Then on top of that, the minimum number of items Ive been able to use vs him is 3 hyper guards, Celebi, shalas ring (when at lower defense) and 8 karacolas, and 6 USS.

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On a side note - as soon as dude man tells us about the start and stop times for the boss rush, I'm going to do them. I'm all prepped up and waiting I'm Bowser's keep..

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Im trying Mack again until I find a way to beat him at the lowest possible level - 10.

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Ok, so it is possible to beat him at level 10-11. Luckily (even though it requires good RNG) it's at the beginning of the game -so a reset isn't a big deal.

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Back before I switched to doing v8 beta, Mack was the first big place that would make me reset.  The way I did it, I would tank a turn of damage and use a USS on the second turn.  That's the only reason I'm confident you can use an USS on the first turn and rush Mack down.

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