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Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

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Hi folks, found out about this patch fairly recently and I'm finally getting around to trying it. Thanks Praetorius Praetarius for your hard work on it! I noticed that there was a party discussion thread on the InsaneDifficulty archives but I also understand that some of the character classes have changed since several of these party recommendations were made, so I was hoping to start a new thread of party ideas for my first couple of playthroughs here. I hope people are actually still reading this forum since it feels kind of quiet on here. :D

I'm planning to do is 1 playthrough for each of the "plot pairs" for a total of 3 playthroughs (Angela+Duran+x, Carlie+Kevin+x, and Hawk+Lise+x), and I wanted to make sure that the parties I'm working with will at least be semi-viable for this goal. I think I have a party set for my first run but I'm not sure about the subsequent ones yet. Here's what I got so far but I greatly appreciate any constructive criticism:

 

Angela (main character) as Arch Mage, Duran as Lord, Kevin as Dervish.

Arch Mage brings a lot to the table with Anti-Magic, 2 debuffs, Aura Wave, and lots of AoEs. The Dervish seems to be a natural companion for it since it has the other 2 stat downs, leaf saber for MP, moon saber for HP, and the physical strength that Angela is lacking to keep the party more balanced. The Lord then acts as healer, has 2 of the 4 stat ups, Life Booster to keep Angela alive, and Energy Ball to help Kevin hit harder  - there's overlap on the Speed Down debuff but that's the only bit of overlap I could find for the party.

The big downsides here are no Power Up, Mind Up, elemental sabers, and Lunatic which means that bosses might take a while to kill...but otherwise I'm pretty happy with how this looks on paper. Plus I've never played through Angela's story before and I'm looking forward to it!

 

Carlie (main character) as Bishop, Kevin as God Hand, Lise as Dragon Master.

Bishop seems like the ultimate support class with MTHL, MT tinkle rain, MT elemental sabers, ST saint saber, Def Up, and - as an added bonus - the almighty Turn Undead spell which should be very useful in Carlie's quest. I'm not totally sure about making Kevin a God Hand but it means having an off-healer, Power Up, a second saint saber caster, and he's a pretty strong attacker to boot. Finally, the Dragon Master is strong defensively and another pretty good attacker who also has all the stat downs and anti-magic.

I'm really not sure about this party since Bishop and God Hand together feels kind of redundant. Suggestions appreciated!

 

Hawk (main character) as Ninja Master, Lise as Vanadise, Duran as Duelist

I think this is the party I'm least sure of; It's pretty hard to go wrong with the combination of Dark Hawk + Light Lise and Duelist hits like a freight train, but I worry that relying as Vanadise as a main healer is going to be tough. Especially since she only gets Heal Light and Tinkle Rain on the 2nd class change, and making both MT will take an item slot. Other than that though this has stat downs, stat ups, elemental sabers, Anti-Magic and really good attacking power.

 

Feedback and help greatly appreciated!

Edited by Barnacle_Ed
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11 minutes ago, Barnacle_Ed said:

Praetorius

can this typo finally die please? I've read my name wrong in exactly this way so many times, it ceased to be funny 3 years ago.

 

Angela (main character) as Arch Mage, Duran as Lord, Kevin as Dervish.
I'd suggest Kevin as Godhand instead and then the armor that inverts (de)buffs on him.
Duran stays the main healer, Kevin can help throw one when Duran is out of mana.

Carlie (main character) as Bishop, Kevin as God Hand, Lise as Dragon Master.
Looks good.

Hawk (main character) as Ninja Master, Lise as Vanadise, Duran as Duelist.
Alternatively: Ninja Master, Star Lancer, Bishop
Bishop's final weapon runs on PIE, so is roughly as strong as Duelist on a medium weapon, while still having some spell damage to boot

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12 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

can this typo finally die please? I've read my name wrong in exactly this way so many times, it ceased to be funny 3 years ago.

Whoops. My bad dude, edited original post to fix my typo :$

 

I totally forgot to check the endgame gear for each character...good to know that God Hand's final armor and Bishop's final weapon do some interesting stuff. I'll have to check out the others as well. Thanks for the build feedback! Quick question on the Angela/Duran/Kevin party though: Will not having leaf saber for Angela be a liability in longer fights?

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If it proves a problem, give her a Rajin's Staff from the elf village or the Tree Spirit Ring from the ice town.
Same MP steal effect but stacks with other sabers for magic element boost.
Also much earlier available.

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Clearly I need to re-review all the potential items for each character. Thanks for the explanation. I guess to make sure I'm being clear, I'm not hell-bent on having Kevin in the party nor am I dead set on having Angela as Arch Mage (though it does seem like a strong class). This is definitely some food for thought however.

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14 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Alternatively: Ninja Master, Star Lancer, Bishop

This combination lacks Anti-Magic, though. This means if an enemy nullifies, absorbs or reflects a certain element, the Ninja Master will be unable to debuff the enemy with the Jutsu of that element. For bosses, you can buy a few Specter's Eyes from Byzel's Black Market, but they're awfully expensive, so there's not much you can regularly do against monsters like Gremlins or Power Builders. Some monsters also nullify physical attacks, so without Anti-Magic, the best you can do against them is a Saber-powered Jutsu (or Saint Beam).

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well marduke always works, and ninjamaster with acala (ignore physical immunity weapon) can multitarget shuriken and melt the pesky gremlins in like 2-3 shots , same for boulders/powerbuilders on normal
since hawk scales stupid with spirit and agility you can ignore strenght for the most part or completly and just focus on agi+pie+luck and then vit and a bit of int , with carlies energyshields you get +10 max mp and double mp regeneration, more then pouring loads of points into int will ever give you
set hawk on lvl 1 tech only since it hits twice for 130% damage and give him a fireblaze ;)
if you use a lvl1 tech while an enemy is attacking or after they attacked it deals boosted damage, called a counter, scales with agility, hawk proc that twice
when you counter an enemy with a fireblaze you multiply their physical defense with 0,75 . multiple times ;)
just firejutsu slimes and the likes to death
anti magic safe for some bosses is heavily overrated

Bishop with energyshield and tree spirit ring (mp drain) doesnt need int either since carlie doesnt get anything out of intelligence , so she can stay stupid like she is :D
carlies bishop weapon scales of pie , so you just need to speck into 4 stats instead of 6 , capping everything and with her final weapon she is as powerful as a duelist :D

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I'm glad to hear that Bishop is, apparently, crazy strong with her final weapon and her stat allocation is simple - makes me more confident in the Carlie+Kevin party.

For Angela+Duran I've decided on Carlie there as well. Arch Mage, Lord, and Sage (as per a suggestion in the old thread) seems neat...if a little lacking in raw damage. With mind up and down, though, both casters should hit pretty hard!

Finally I'm now trying to avoid Carlie in the final Lise+Hawk party since I'd prefer to avoid using her 3 times over. And I'd also like to have anti magic. I'm considering making hawk a Wanderer (since I've never tried it and it looks interesting) then adding in something like Dervish to change things up a bit. 

Edited by Barnacle_Ed
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I'd like to try Duran, Lise and Carlie on my next game. Which classes would you recommend? I was thinking of something with sabers, stat-ups and stat-downs, but I'd also like to have access to Heal Light.

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Duelist (saber, anti-magic, aura wave), Necromancer (debuffs), Vanadise (buff, heal)

Lord (heal, def/speed up, life booster, energy ball), Bishop (heal, def up, magic shield, saber), DragonMaster (debuffs, anti-magic, lunatic, sleep)

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5 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Duelist (saber, anti-magic, aura wave), Necromancer (debuffs), Vanadise (buff, heal)

 

This sounds pretty good. Just to add options, are Energy Ball (self), Saint Saber and Moon Saber worth giving up Anti-Magic and Aura Wave (i.e. taking Swordmaster instead of Duelist)? Alternatively, I could take Evil Shaman instead of Necromancer, so I won't get Black Curse, but I get Power Down (via Ghost Road), Anti-Magic (to compensate for Swordmaster not having it), Demon Breath, Lunatic and Transshape.

 

5 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Lord (heal, def/speed up, life booster, energy ball), Bishop (heal, def up, magic shield, saber), DragonMaster (debuffs, anti-magic, lunatic, sleep)

 

This doesn't sound bad, either. For buffs, you get all of them, except Power Up (Energy Ball and Sabers somewhat make up for it). A combination of Life Booster and Lunatic is also nice. I still haven't found much use for Sleep Flower, but Anti-Magic is nice, especially with the Dragon Master's ultimate weapon. Unfortunately, the party has very limited physical AoE (only Lise's level 2 tech), and while the party has Sabers, the only elemental spells to benefit from the Sabers are Holy Ball and Saint Beam.

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So I'm projecting myself into my next playthrough already, so currently I'm playing Star Lancer, Ninja Master and Bishop (so Lise, Hawk and Carlie), which by the way for me is a really good team I didn't found any situation where that team couldn't respond in one way or another I was worried about the lack of Anti-Magic (once I learned what it does), but so far it didn't hurt me at all (didn't even need Specter's Eye at all up until now). 

When I will be done with this playthrough I want to try the other 3 characters which are Duran, Kevin and Angela. I looked up and for now what seem on paper to be the best team for me would be Lord, Warrior Monk and Arch Mage as this team would get all Up, all Down (except Defense Down), Heal Light, Tinkle Rain, Life Booster, Aura Wave and Anti-Magic but my issue are that there is no Sabers except Leaf (that isn't to troublesome just I will not be able to perform with Angela at her best and Sabers could be handy for some fights) and more importantly this party will make me running with Knight, Monk and Sorceress at first and I fear this might be rough as this team will only give me Defense and Power Up and no stat down at all, I also fear this party would lack physical strength. So do you think there would be a better team with this 3 or is this one good enough despite the cons ?

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It is kinda hard to lack physical strength with Kevin AND Duran and the same party.

You could always give Duran an Estoc/Mythril Sword (PIE based) and then put all into PIE for strong heal and attack.
Or same for Kevin with Moogle Claw/Mythril Knuckle.

Though in that setup I'd choose one main healer and only give that one the PIE-based weapon.

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So in the end as I say, I'm currently playing as Duran, Kevin and Angela as I want to test these 3 (currently on Bucca Island), so in the end I did go for Gladiator, Monk and Sorceress and I plan to go Swordmaster, Warrior Monk and Arch Mage will see how it turns out (for now it's definitly different like the early game and Tzenker were quite easier than my previous team, however Genova and Bill&Ben were harder then Gorva was easier (altough this time he got the time to use his Deathspell ^^)) the biggest concern is the lack of Def Up but Bullet's Scale can be farm or buy, I plan to use Duran as my main physical damage dealer using his FST with the weapons that increase Tech Points might be good combine with his Sabers (also boosting Angela's damage with said Sabers), I'm going to use Kevin as my main healer/support with the weapon that use PIE instead of STR he should also be able to do respectable damage without investing in STR as for Angela of course gonna be the main Random Cleaner as well as applying Anti-Magic on bosses also Power and Mind Down will be usefull.

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God Hand / Arch Mage / Fenrir Knight

What would you guys say about this team? Am I missing crucial things?

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Just got up to the first class change in this mod and loving it but would like some advice wrt to classes. My team is Angela/Kevin/Carlie and I largely picked the team around the concept of actually using Dark Carlie for once in my life. With all the magic Evil Shaman seems a shoe in. Kevin will be going Light to pick up healing, probably headed toward Warrior Monk for Leaf Saber and Mind Up.

Angela though, I haven't got a clue what to do. Anyone got some advice/guidance for this?

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If you go Evil Shaman with Carlie then there is definitly no reason to go Arch Mage as the main ability from Arch Mage are mostly cover by Evil Shaman (Power Down, Mind Down and Anti-Magic especially), I also don't think Magus would be the best choice as Mind Up and Power Up are already cover by Kevin's Warrior Monk tough Magus has powerfull nuke with Ancient and Lunatic, I would go more toward either Grand Divina ou Rune Master :

-Grand Divina would give you a second (and potentially better) Heal Light user as well as Tinkle Rain, Speed Up and also Transshape which can have it use, the Tier 1 spells of every element while it would seems strange to keep the lower tier spells in a RPG it turns out they are the best offensive spell especially for bosses cause they have a lower MP cost and faster casttime and so have a higher DPS than LV2/3 spells, also with Grand Divina's final weapon she can use the Tier 1 spells to get Sabers of the corresponding element by casting them on your team.

-Rune Master is more offensive than Grand Divina it would give you the 4 main elemental Sabers, and also is the only class of Angela that get access to the Tier 3 spells for Fire, Ice, Wind and Earth which are very good tool for Crowd Control as not only they deal a lot of Damage but also inflict statut effect very good for mob fight and Rune Master's final weapon make them AoE, for bosses the Sabers skill are very good and I would suggest to stick to the Tier 2 spells for better DPS.

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1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

the Tier 1 spells of every element while it would seems strange to keep the lower tier spells in a RPG it turns out they are the best offensive spell especially for bosses cause they have a lower MP cost and faster casttime and so have a higher DPS than LV2/3 spells, also with Grand Divina's final weapon she can use the Tier 1 spells to get Sabers of the corresponding element by casting them on your team.

You're forgetting a tiny detail - you are hitting the boss more often this way so bosses with retaliation attacks trigger those more often (every X number of hits with spells adding more to that meter).

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Posted (edited)

For this detail, armors that deny counter attack should be useful. Playing a few games up through the God Beasts with Grand Divina, the only boss where this became a problem was Bill and Ben, especially since I had to use high physical defense armor to survive their Level 2 tech counters. In this case, cast with caution and only when sufficiently healed. This is only really a problem the first time you meet Bill and Ben as the second time their counters are not as powerful relative to your hit points, plus your defensive options should be improved.

Edited by rpschamp
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Anybody mind with a quick review of this setup (playing on Normal):

Duran - Lord (heals, buffs, energy ball)

Hawkeye - Ninja Master (crit damage, debuffs)

Angela - idk between Rune Master or Magus

Rune Master gives access to high ST damage and status effects along with sabers while Magus gets that fullscreen damage, Power Up, Mind Up (mt). I feel like I'll manage either way, but just wanted to get some input before I save with Angie as Magus. 

This hack is incredible! Thanks, y'all.

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Well since you're on Normal I don't think the ennemy hits nearly as close as Hard, so Mind Up might not be as crucial as it is in Hard, I think the Sabers from Rune Master might be more interesting  not only for boosting both Hawk and Angela's damage but also some bosses have a strategy relying on casting Sabers on your team so that you heal them so having a way to overwrite these seems crucial (especially the Fire God Beast) also Rune Master LV3 spells are good crowd control option once you get Rune Master's Final Weapon.

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Ah, you know, I forgot Sabers boost the elemental damage from Angela's nukes as well! I see your points, my team wouldn't really have a way to set snowman/stone/silence without her Rune Master's  level 3 nukes, and elemental weaknesses notwithstanding they still boost power by 10% vs. Power Up's 25%. I guess without having Antimagic it may be good to have heavy nukes and disables like that. Heh, I was excited to use Magus because I like her color palette and I use RM a lot in Vanilla SD3, but having not played her yet in Hardtype I may as well rekindle my love for Angie's DL. 

Thank you for the response.

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Well for setting statut effects, you still could use some weapons that can inflict statut effects, by the way a little off topic but regarding these kind of weapons I want to ask about Kevin and Hawk since they have an innate Double Hit with their normal attack does both hit have the same odds for inflicting statut effect as one hit of the other characters or does the odds per hit are reduce for Hawk and Kevin ?

Also for Anti-Magic you can buy Specter's Eye if you really need it.

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Kevin and Hawk use luck+2 for status proc chance, everyone else uses luck+10

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So Hawk and Kevin have an overall lower chance to inflict statut effect through these weapons ? Well I suppose it makes sense Kevin's regular attacks already hit like a truck no need to give him another advantage, same for Hawk especially since 3 of his final classes have mean to inflict statut effect through their abilities.

By the way speaking of Kevin does anybody has a good team for Death Hand ? I never saw it mentionned is Death Hand's good ?

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