Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

518 posts in this topic

I would go for Lord, if only for Tinkle Rain and Life Booster which are always useful; you can keep some Papa Poto's Claws for Saint Saber during important battles, Turn Undead is most useful when you're overlevelled and least need it, and Antimagic is only necessary against one or two bosses. But the main reason is that Lord's final weapon opens up counterattacks on level 2/3 techs, and both Ninja Master and Dervish are awesome Fireblaze/counterattackers due to their double hits. Fireblaze chips away at defense, -25% per hit against random enemies, and -Strength/2 per hit against bosses (except the few that are immune). Set Hawk and Kevin on their level 1 techs with Fireblaze and their counterattack weapons and you should be set.

The main advantage I see to Paladin here is Magic Shield, which can raise your magic defense and healing power, potentially important for this team.

Edited by rpschamp

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You're right, I didn't even check the Lord's final weapon against the Paladin's...Sure seems a lot more useful, since I was already planning to use Fireblaze along with Ninja Master's final weapon to force counterable state, but the Lord's looks much easier to proc (could always use both though). I was thinking mainly about going crit setups with energy ball+analyse, but this'll make me rethink that...

By the way, do you/anyone else know what the Dervish's final weapon effect actually do? Just an attack bonus for the wolf form, or? (Surely it doesn't actually turn Kevin berserk/uncontrollable?)

Edited by Kei

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I think I someone said it’s just an attack bonus but I’ve never used it so I’m not sure. You’ve already chosen your final classes, correct? If not, I wonder if Death Hand for Kevin might make more sense since Lord already offers Energy Ball and Dervish’s debuffs are already covered. If you’re still early in the game, you might also consider Kevin’s light path; God Hand gets both Power Up and Counter Magic to cover your magical defense (it does not reflect spells in this game) while keeping access to Saint and Moon Sabers.

The cool thing about your team that you can try both critical hit and counterattack setups and see which one you prefer. If Duran is your lead character though, the counterattack setup should work well against his sub-bosses who I think require counterattacks to beat them.

Edited by rpschamp

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8 hours ago, Kei said:

By the way, do you/anyone else know what the Dervish's final weapon effect actually do? Just an attack bonus for the wolf form, or? (Surely it doesn't actually turn Kevin berserk/uncontrollable?)

much more attack than regular wolf form at cost of defenses.

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42 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

much more attack than regular wolf form at cost of defenses.

I love the idea of the Sufi "whirling dervish" applied as a berserker form, an attack state of religious ecstasy beyond concern for self-preservation. Good job with this one!

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5 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

much more attack than regular wolf form at cost of defenses.

Interesting, I'll have to see in practice if it's worth it though

 

7 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I think I someone said it’s just an attack bonus but I’ve never used it so I’m not sure. You’ve already chosen your final classes, correct? If not, I wonder if Death Hand for Kevin might make more sense since Lord already offers Energy Ball and Dervish’s debuffs are already covered. If you’re still early in the game, you might also consider Kevin’s light path; God Hand gets both Power Up and Counter Magic to cover your magical defense (it does not reflect spells in this game) while keeping access to Saint and Moon Sabers.

The cool thing about your team that you can try both critical hit and counterattack setups and see which one you prefer. If Duran is your lead character though, the counterattack setup should work well against his sub-bosses who I think require counterattacks to beat them.

We didn't choose our final classes yet, we're at Ninja/Bashkar/Knight, so no light Kevin. Lead character is Hawk and my friend is playing Kevin. He doesn't like stopping the action all the time so I tried to make a team that revolves mostly around basic attacks and lv1 techs, that's why Dervish seemed the logical choice. Death Hand with Lunatic and elemental sabers seems very appealing, but Dervish does have Moon saber, and I also wanna try out that final weapon so I guess I'm going with Dervish on this one. 

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15 minutes ago, Kei said:

We didn't choose our final classes yet, we're at Ninja/Bashkar/Knight, so no light Kevin. Lead character is Hawk and my friend is playing Kevin. He doesn't like stopping the action all the time so I tried to make a team that revolves mostly around basic attacks and lv1 techs, that's why Dervish seemed the logical choice. Death Hand with Lunatic and elemental sabers seems very appealing, but Dervish does have Moon saber, and I also wanna try out that final weapon so I guess I'm going with Dervish on this one. 

Those level 1 techs are perfect for a counterattack strategy; plus, it's more fun to try to time your counterattacks than just attack away racking up critical hits.

I also find myself making decisions more on what interests me than what will necessarily work out best, but Dervish also gets Leaf Saber which Ninja Master will love, so not a bad choice at all, good luck! (Also remember for the future that Death Hand's multitarget Lunatic can be flipped with invert armor, leading to the only multitarget Life Booster in the game! I don't know exactly how useful that would be but it sounds kind of awesome.)

Remember to come back and post your evaluation of Dervish's final weapon once you get a chance to try it!

Edited by rpschamp

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32 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Those level 1 techs are perfect for a counterattack strategy; plus, it's more fun to try to time your counterattacks than just attack away racking up critical hits.

I also find myself making decisions more on what interests me than what will necessarily work out best, but Dervish also gets Leaf Saber which Ninja Master will love, so not a bad choice at all, good luck! (Also remember for the future that Death Hand's multitarget Lunatic can be flipped with invert armor, leading to the only multitarget Life Booster in the game! I don't know exactly how useful that would be but it sounds kind of awesome.)

Remember to come back and post your evaluation of Dervish's final weapon once you get a chance to try it!

Sure, we're doing both counters and crits, it's just a matter of which one we'll be gearing up for. Also nice thinking on the inverted Lunatic, that armor + the targetting option opens up so many strategies it's crazy, I'll keep that in mind for future playthroughs. It'll probably take a while before we get to the final weapons since we don't play that often, but I'll remember to comment about it when we do!

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So, I've finally gotten my group far enough to play around with this self-cast status/resist/reflect thing. All the status spells I have to cast with my team are Sleep Flower and Body Change. I haven't tried the latter since I'm missing a Moon Ring, but reflect armor/Wind God Bracelet/self-cast Sleep Flower puts every incoming attacker to sleep (who does not resist sleep). Since I'm running a caster team, this basically slows down attackers so my MT spells can get out faster relative to their attacks. This is going to be great for those particularly melee damage-heavy sections of the game (werewolves, knights, dragons, etc.) that caster teams typically have trouble with.

But the most surprising thing is that you can self-cast the spell once, off-screen, before entering an enemy screen, and every new enemy screen from there will be subject to the same effect until someone casts a spell on you.

Rune Master should be killer with this strategy. Reflect armor/resist petrify/self-cast Stone Cloud while you're safe, then heal before entering a screen with enemies, and every enemy that attacks you for the rest of the dungeon will be petrified (unless they resist it), until someone casts another spell on you. Bring a shield along to focus the attacks on your reflector.

The next group I'm thinking of running to take advantage of this effect is Vanadis/Rune Master/Necromancer. Paladin could substitute for Vanadis to take advantage of Earth Shield, but he's weak to earth and lacks the Mind Up and Speed Up that would be useful for a caster team.

Edited by rpschamp

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Thinking to try a Duelist party on Duran's path. Necromancer and Vanadis sounds like decent picks for that. Have Carlie be the main healer till the final class change then building Vanadis into the main healer.

Also a possible strategy with Black Course for the Dragon Emperor think could work:

Spoiler

Use a Pakkun Oil on him and cast speed up on him before casting Black Course? That way only his physical atk/magic power decreases, rest stay the same, and will lower only the party's physical atk/magic power.

 

Edited by smileless

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41 minutes ago, smileless said:

Thinking to try a Duelist party on Duran's path. Necromancer and Vanadis sounds like decent picks for that. Have Carlie be the main healer till the final class change then building Vanadis into the main healer.

Also a possible strategy with Black Course for the Dragon Emperor think could work:

  Hide contents

Use a Pakkun Oil on him and cast speed up on him before casting Black Course? That way only his physical atk/magic power decreases, rest stay the same, and will lower only the party's physical atk/magic power.

 

As a Necromancer, Carlie can never use healing magic.

Spoiler

Pakkun Oil casts Magic Shield on one party member. You can't target enemies with items that are meant for your party, and vice versa.

 

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16 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

As a Necromancer, Carlie can never use healing magic.

  Hide contents

Pakkun Oil casts Magic Shield on one party member. You can't target enemies with items that are meant for your party, and vice versa.

 

 

I know Necromancer can't use healing magic, that's why I said Vanadis will be the healer.

 

Oh didn't know that about items, haven't tried that out before. Gotta think of another strat then.

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Spoiler

One and possibly only way to have an easier time against Dragon Emperor with that party is having Necromancer with the Invert Armor and Whiteline Ring so she multi targets black course and buffs your party in one spell, while having Vanadis with an invert armor to slowly debuff the Dragon Emperor or farm a Shadowzero's Eye to debuff him, so she could have a different armor instead.

 

Edited by smileless

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13 hours ago, smileless said:

 

I know Necromancer can't use healing magic, that's why I said Vanadis will be the healer.

So how are you going to "have Carlie be the main healer till the final class change"? If you make her a Necromancer, she won't be able to heal ever, not even before the class change.

12 hours ago, smileless said:
  Reveal hidden contents

One and possibly only way to have an easier time against Dragon Emperor with that party is having Necromancer with the Invert Armor and Whiteline Ring so she multi targets black course and buffs your party in one spell, while having Vanadis with an invert armor to slowly debuff the Dragon Emperor or farm a Shadowzero's Eye to debuff him, so she could have a different armor instead.

 

Spoiler

Black Curse can't be multitargeted, not even with a Whitelight Ring.

 

Edited by Serafie1999AD

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10 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

So how are you going to "have Carlie be the main healer till the final class change"? If you make her a Necromancer, she won't be able to heal ever, not even before the class change.

  Hide contents

Black Curse can't be multitargeted, not even with a Whitelight Ring.

 

She could heal plenty with items with the right built. Does the job fine. Didn't necessary mean just by heal light (my bad if it came that way)

 

Ok thanks for letting me know about that. Guess there is nothing else to do but to make sure to have at least Mind Down and Counter Magic or Magic Shield then for that battle.

Edited by smileless

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6 minutes ago, smileless said:

She could heal plenty with items with the right built. Does the job fine. Didn't necessary mean just by heal light (my bad if it came that way)

It's gonna be annoying not having Heal light until the second class change because of the auto-healing after victory though, and you're gonna dump a lot of money on healing items. Still, it's doable if you have the patience

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13 hours ago, Kei said:

It's gonna be annoying not having Heal light until the second class change because of the auto-healing after victory though, and you're gonna dump a lot of money on healing items. Still, it's doable if you have the patience

Well I managed with the Hawk, Lise, Carlie team just fine without heal light till after second class change, even those parties I played that had heal light I didn't use it that much until after second class change, healing items become very efficient with the right set up. Good if you want to have it but to me it wasn't mandatory till second class change, I think it was manageable just fine.

Edited by smileless

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5 hours ago, smileless said:

Well I managed with the Hawk, Lise, Carlie team just fine without heal light till after second class change, even those parties I played that had heal light I didn't use it that much until after second class change, healing items become very efficient with the right set up. Good if you want to have it but to me it wasn't mandatory till second class change, I think it was manageable just fine.

It's not really for use in battle per se, more of a convenience for the post-battle auto heal. But yeah, it doesn't take too long from the first class change to the second one in this hack, thankfully, so I guess it's pretty manageable

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17 minutes ago, Kei said:

But yeah, it doesn't take too long from the first class change to the second one in this hack, thankfully, so I guess it's pretty manageable

With Genova, Gorva and 1-2x Bill/Ben that section certainly shouldn't be underestimated, though.

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Gorva sure gave me a tough time when I played with Hawk/Lise/Carlie, I admit haha. A heal light user would be useful there, sometimes he takes a bit longer before his next attack so you have more time to toss a heal light here or there.

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Man, Dragonmaster is just too good, going to make really good use of that final weapon of hers (finally managed to get it). First time trying that class and am loving it. 

 

Tried a team suggestion I saw some weeks ago of Lord/DragonMaster/Bishop, going really smooth so far. Beat Dangaard, Mispolm, Landumber and Dolan, had a bit a tough time as usual against Dolan because I didn't have my tech ready in time so I had to be extra careful there on techs managing, but I did it in the end, and I managed to also do some farming and got Carlies and Lise's final weapons.

Next is Xan Bie and the first boss I will flex with Lise's final weapon B|, then I will try to get Duran's final weapon

Edited by smileless

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Spoiler

Beat Xan Bie, no problem with Lise's final weapon, then got Lord's final weapon, and for the first time Fiegmund was actually easy and went down rreally quick, gave quite a few int points to Duran, empowered antimagic, saber depending on the element of the day for Lise and Duran, saint saber on Carlie, mind down/def down, Lord was dealing 999 damage on Fiegmund, didn't expect his final weapon to be that good. Really like the combination if this team.

Next Lightgazer, then the final area of Duran's path.

 

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On 11.4.2020 at 10:36 AM, smileless said:

 

  Hide contents

Lord was dealing 999 damage on Fiegmund

 

On which difficulty level are you playing exactly? The damage seems amazingly high.

Your party composition is quite impressive, and it's a very good defensive party. The biggest problems with the group is that it's slow to buff (Magic Shield has to be cast on characters one at a time), there's no double hitter or Aura Wave (so tech-building is slow), there's no Mind Up for boosting attack magic, and AoE attack magic is limited to MT Holy Ball, powered up by Saint Saber. Then again, if an enemy has any weakness, Dragon Master's powered up Anti-Magic makes the target weak to everything, making up for the limited elemental coverage. Other than that, two Heal Lights that are available after the first class change, and you have two tanks, a wide range of elemental Sabers, powered up Anti-Magic, debuffs and Lunatic. The hardest parts are probably against

Spoiler

Dolan and Mispolm, since you'll have a harder time filling up your tech bar.

 

Edited by Serafie1999AD

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1 hour ago, Serafie1999AD said:

On which difficulty level are you playing exactly? The damage seems amazingly high.

Your party composition is quite impressive, and it's a very good defensive party. The biggest problems with the group is that it's slow to buff (Magic Shield has to be cast on characters one at a time), there's no double hitter or Aura Wave (so tech-building is slow), there's no Mind Up for boosting attack magic, and AoE attack magic is limited to MT Holy Ball, powered up by Saint Saber. Then again, if an enemy has any weakness, Dragon Master's powered up Anti-Magic makes the target weak to everything, making up for the limited elemental coverage. Other than that, two Heal Lights that are available after the first class change, and you have two tanks, a wide range of elemental Sabers, powered up Anti-Magic, debuffs and Lunatic. The hardest parts are probably against

  Hide contents

Dolan and Mispolm, since you'll have a harder time filling up your tech bar.

 

 

I am playing the Normal difficulty patch.

 

Yeah, it's pretty slow to buff, having to cast Magic shield one by one is a problem. And tech building is slow (probably should use that ring rhat ups the tech points).  But I take my time with it, am in no rush, I try to speed it up with Magic Walnuts, Carlie has that helm thay shortens cast time while I near maxed out her AGI by now. Already maxed out PIE, her final weapon runs on tha so that's great, becomes a very strong physicsl hitter too when needed, and her lv1 tech becomes decently strong.

 

Empowered Anti-Magic really helped this party from the lack of elemental coverage. 

 

Spoiler

Lost to Dolan and Mispolm once, Dolan had problem building tech in time until I set my characters to use no tech so I would use them manually to cancel out energy ball, it was a long fight, as for Mispolm, it was moreso a problem with his status reflection, otherwise I just raised his defense and lowered my party's atk, which I think it helped to manage the reflection just fine.

 

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Finished Duran's path with that party. Went pretty smooth, only Black Rabite proved to be a problem, the Dragon Emperor battle was fine:

Spoiler

That team had the means to deal with the Dragon Emperor's gimmicks, cast Magic Shield, cast mind down and power down, I fought him on Gnome day as he doesn't have gnome magic, cast diamond saber on everyone and it was straightforward from there, Carlie and Lise doing lv1 techs trying to sneak in a counter (these are better to do if you play with someone for having more control over them), while Duran lv2-3 techs with his final weapon, his Dragon Roar was still doing a lot of damage. It was fun all in all.

Now thinking on my next team, since I took care of Dragon Emperor, will go after the Archdemon next.

Fenrir Knight, Death Hand, Paladin sounds like a nice party I might choose tho seems to be heavy physical reliant, it got debuffs, sabers, def up, magic shield, anti-magic, heal, Kevin with a strong lv3 tech, also his lunatic is multi target which might help against mobs too for a team like this, tho without Necromancer I don't think I can make use of his final weapon but fine by me, I will just do without it and the weapon that fills tech bar x3 to unleash the beast.

Or might go with a Hawk, Angela, Carlie or Kevin:

Nightblade, Magus, Bishop - debuffs, magic shield, turn undead, sabers, mind up for magus, def up, would have been nice to have a leaf saber for angela, might farm crawlers claws for endgame at very least

I might not actually pair Kevin with Angela and Hawk, seems like that team might lack def up, unless I wanna have an evasion heavy build but I think it's too risky.

Wanderer, Paladin, Necromancer might be pretty good too, it lacks saber spells but has Light and Dark Saber

Thoughts?

Edited by smileless

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