Character/Job Party Recommendations

[praetarius5018 111]

9 hours ago, rpschamp said:

One question on how Beastman Collar interacts with Warrior Monk's final weapon: When casting Heal Light, would his tech points count towards his healing power, or would they get removed by the Beastman Collar prior to the Heal Light calculation?

It removes the TP when calculating the cast time so way before the point the game checks for the WM weapon.

[Kei 4]

16 hours ago, smileless said:

I usually use the helms that remove the weakness of either base or advanced class depending with the resist armor for god beasts, while for final battles the remove weakness armor or the ring from Jad that can't be unequiped.

 Good thinking, I totally forgot about those helmets

[rpschamp 0]

On 3/7/2020 at 1:14 PM, Nesouk said:

Alright decide to start my No Heal Light playthrough picked Lise, Hawk and Angela, of course the early game will not be different from a regular playthrough, just want to add however for Jewel Eater I found the helm sold at Dwarf Village to be really usefull against him making him even safer than before I manage to beat with my character never getting on critical HP , as his physical attacks are more dangerous than his magical one, so add that to my little early game guide I make earlier.

(PS : Also small note to early game cause I'm also testing that Dervish, Arch Mage, Bishop party that come to my mind earlier on, Kevin's prologue has a little advantage, his prologue is fill with Bound Wolf so if we are lucky he can get a Moon Coin for Full Metal Hugger, and it makes Full Metal Huger a joke, got probably the fastest kill I ever done on him thanks to that , tough I don't recommend grinding for it (I wasn't looking for it just get it by luck) as it can be annoying to get and the early game on hard already require to grind enough consumable as it is but it's good to know, as if Kevin wasn't already the best character for early game enough )

Anyway for my No Heal Light team decide to do thing a little differently than what I was planning earlier here's my team plan :

-Lise is going to be Fenrir Knight, obviously would be crazy to not go for this class on such a party, so that give me all debuffs a good shield user obviously her most attractive feature is her Final weapon for it healing on counter effect, but also Moon Saber for Draining HP.

-Hawk : Now this is where I'm gonna be bold, upon thinking it his Dark Classes seems like a good pick, Ninja Master could open counter for Fenrir Knight, and Nightblade could give Curse and good nuking with Black Rain, but I don't want to be stuck on Invert Armor with Lise, and so considering she already bring the debuff I don't think Dark Hawk will bring much.
And so I'm gonna do something different and go for his Wanderer class for a few reasons. First off his spells will give a lot of tools to play around, in a no Heal Light game I think Life Booster might prove more usefull, also has Lunatic (only class with both Life Booster and Lunatic by the way) he also has Transshape so Transshape + Shield combo will be a thing with Lise, Aura Wave will allow Lise to get her LV1 Tech ready faster, Anti Magic will prove usefull to on some fight (I'm going all out in this run as you can see XD), Mind Up is the most important buff for most of the boss fights (and will strengthen Angela) and on top of all this utility Dual Hitting Counter with Fireblaze is still a thing, also get a cheap fast to cast spell with Arrow, a guaranteed fix damage with Half Vanish and his Final Weapon, as well as Body Change while not wanted on regular playthrough if things get ugly I will not mind losing EXP to make mob fight easier. 

-Angela : Gonna go to Rune Master, the goal on this party will be trying for mob fight to minimize damage as much as possible, and so Rune Master being able to cripple mobs with Statut Effects is a no brainer for me, Wanderer's Antimagic will allow her to bypass immunities, and for boss fight she will mostly use her LV2 Spells.

Will see how it will turn out.

I'm now thinking of a No Heal Light team myself; I've wanted to run one for a while but with the recent update I have some new inspiration. After thinking of these same base resistance teams, I'm considering:

Ninja Master/Night Blade, Death Hand, Rune Master

Defensively, all three characters are resistant to Earth, and Angela has Diamond Saber, so I can keep melee/tech damage down significantly in the late game. Hawk and Kevin can get a lot of mileage out of Dragon Rings and their HP rasping weapons with their double-hits to keep their HP up, and I can use heal hurts armors/accessories for random enemies and use heal items between battles when necessary (Mad Beast Fangs may be useful too). For boss battles, I find that I mainly use items anyways rather than Heal Light until very late in the game, so I think I can make this work.

Offensively, this team will be a terror: I'll have two double-hitters with powerful level 3 techs/debuffs (with Beastman Collar for Hawk) and Rune Master to cast MT status spells. I can also use status reflect effects like Stone Cloud (convenient here since everyone resists Earth). It may also be interesting to explore some of the weapons and armors that strengthen on death (I usually run deathless, so this will be completely new territory for me).

The choice of Ninja Master vs. Night Blade is interesting: Ninja Master adds defensive options with MT jutsus and Transshape to keep Rune Master safe, but Night Blade brings two extra elements with Pressure and Curse and a final weapon that might actually get some use in an often low-HP environment.

I quoted Nesouk to get his opinion since he ran an No Heal Light team recently. Does this sound workable? I will be playing on Normal.

Edited May 5, 2020 by rpschamp

[Nesouk 49]

I actually didn't finish that run, did get to the God beasts beat the first 2 god beasts. 

Honnestly in no heal light run Fenrir Knight is probably the best character to have, especially if you have a mage, it's even more true now that she has Leaf Saber on top of moon saber, and her final weapon is really good.

Right now Death Hand and Wanderer are also really good, Wanderer was already good in no heal light run, now his magic shield give you all you need in regard to buffs, on top of all the utility spells and a consistent source of damage with Half Vanish. Death Hand give you that with Magic Shield to but also Speed Up, and his final weapon to reduce defense will help.

Rune Master is IMO Angela best class for no heal light the crowd control she get with LV3 Spells really going through areas with minimum damage.

Dark Hawk is always a solid choice regardless IMO.

[rpschamp 0]

35 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

I actually didn't finish that run, did get to the God beasts beat the first 2 god beasts. 

Honnestly in no heal light run Fenrir Knight is probably the best character to have, especially if you have a mage, it's even more true now that she has Leaf Saber on top of moon saber, and her final weapon is really good.

Right now Death Hand and Wanderer are also really good, Wanderer was already good in no heal light run, now his magic shield give you all you need in regard to buffs, on top of all the utility spells and a consistent source of damage with Half Vanish. Death Hand give you that with Magic Shield to but also Speed Up, and his final weapon to reduce defense will help.

Rune Master is IMO Angela best class for no heal light the crowd control she get with LV3 Spells really going through areas with minimum damage.

Dark Hawk is always a solid choice regardless IMO.

Yeah, after giving this some more thought, it seems a little crazy, and a No Heal Light run without Fenrir Knight feels like it's missing something important. I will probably stick with Hawk, Kevin, Carlie for now (though I miss Angela) and either go Wanderer, Warrior Monk, Necromancer or some Dark Hawk, Dark Kevin, Light Carlie. Dervish looks interesting to pair with Ninja Master and Sage (Energy Ball and Analyze; invert armor on Kevin for Protect Up, Speed Up, and Mind Up; Gigas Flail and Moon Saber to keep HP up), but his final weapon looks a little crazy with its 50% reduction to defenses. Death Hand's final weapon looks A LOT more useful. I can think of a No Heal Light run with Fenrir Knight in the future.

Edited May 5, 2020 by rpschamp

[rpschamp 0]

On 4/3/2020 at 11:45 AM, praetarius5018 said:

On 4/3/2020 at 3:01 AM, Kei said:

By the way, do you/anyone else know what the Dervish's final weapon effect actually do? Just an attack bonus for the wolf form, or? (Surely it doesn't actually turn Kevin berserk/uncontrollable?)

much more attack than regular wolf form at cost of defenses.

Is the +25% attack, -50% defenses listed in the documentation correct? Your comment above leads me to think it may be +50% attack, -25% defenses instead.

[praetarius5018 111]

31 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Is the +25% attack, -50% defenses listed in the documentation correct? Your comment above leads me to think it may be +50% attack, -25% defenses instead.

It is +25% atk before defense so the actual damage increase will be much bigger.
Simplified imagine:
400 atk vs 300 def = 100 damage
500 atk vs 300 def = 200 damage, 25% more atk but 100% more damage

[smileless 0]

The final weapons of Nightblade and Necromancer seem to go best with the armor that revives you at the cost of MP. 

With my Paladin/RuneMaster/Nectomancer run, for the Dragon Emperor fight I went on Gnome Day, Diamond Saber and just casted Earthquake with Angela, Half Vanish with Carlie until her hp reached half then switched to Machine Golem. I had Carlie equiped with Sage Armor, Protect Ring and the Ring that casts from HP. I barely have any money left haha, you really can afford only one of those Pedan armors.

Next in line are these teams:

Ninja Master, Vanadise, Duelist going to be fun using Duelist for the first time. I guess with his final weapon damage depends on how close he is to the target?

Warrior Monk, Wanderer, Necromamcer seems like a really fun one to try.

Edited May 6, 2020 by smileless

[rpschamp 0]

On 5/5/2020 at 4:51 AM, praetarius5018 said:

It is +25% atk before defense so the actual damage increase will be much bigger.
Simplified imagine:
400 atk vs 300 def = 100 damage
500 atk vs 300 def = 200 damage, 25% more atk but 100% more damage

In this case, Dervish might be worth a try. I'm thinking a Nightblade/Dervish/Sage team should be able to finally get some use out of Rainbow Dust with the new Leaf Coat effect, among other cool things.

By the way, I'm really feeling the code optimizations during battle. Maybe I'm just noticing them because my hardware is over a decade old, but battle is now running near normal speed for me, maybe 50% faster at times. Your work on improving this game over these years is really appreciated :-)

21 hours ago, smileless said:

Warrior Monk, Wanderer, Necromamcer seems like a really fun one to try.

I'm probably going to go Dark Hawk, Dark Kevin, Light Carlie this time, but I agree this one would be a lot of fun, especially on the hardest difficulty where Half Vanish is often your best damage source; Wanderer and Necromancer casting back to back while Kevin uses tech points for either final weapon or Beastman Collar healing, two double hitters, Dark Saber and dark resistance, and pretty much every support spell in the game (except for elemental sabers).

Edited May 7, 2020 by rpschamp

[praetarius5018 111]

3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

By the way, I'm really feeling the code optimizations during battle. Maybe I'm just noticing them because my hardware is over a decade old, but battle is now running near normal speed for me, maybe 50% faster at times.

It should have nothing to do with your hardware. The SNES only had so much CPU power (~3.5 MHz I believe) so if the emulator is even trying to be accurate it will severly limit how many instructions are executed per frame (and ofc not all instructions cost the same).
If I can trust the logs I made with frame advance this averages to 10-12k instructions per frame.
What I did was to take several compressed functions that are used often like checks during attack swings and uncompress them, I have the rom space to do that vanilla did not, which saves about 200-300 instructions per section (~300-450 instructions down to ~80-170).
I doubt it is that notable, we're speaking maybe half a frame worth of instructions over a 30 frame attack sequence.

[Serafie1999AD 4]

After the latest patch, I think this party would be excellent:

Death Hand, Dragon Master, Bishop:

For buffs, you get double Magic Shield, Speed Up, Power Up and Aura Wave, and for debuffs, you get Power Down, Def Down, Mind Down, Speed Down, Lunatic and empowered Anti-Magic. For Sabers, you'll get Diamond, Thunder, Flame, Ice, Saint and Dark, which is useful until you get Lise's ultimate weapon. For attack magic, you have MT Holy Ball, Saint Beam, Turn Undead and Jormungand, which aren't much, but it's still better than nothing, especially after getting Lise's ultimate weapon. You'll also have Heal Light after the 1st class change.

[smileless 0]

39 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

After the latest patch, I think this party would be excellent:

Death Hand, Dragon Master, Bishop:

For buffs, you get double Magic Shield, Speed Up, Power Up and Aura Wave, and for debuffs, you get Power Down, Def Down, Mind Down, Speed Down, Lunatic and empowered Anti-Magic. For Sabers, you'll get Diamond, Thunder, Flame, Ice, Saint and Dark, which is useful until you get Lise's ultimate weapon. For attack magic, you have MT Holy Ball, Saint Beam, Turn Undead and Jormungand, which aren't much, but it's still better than nothing, especially after getting Lise's ultimate weapon. You'll also have Heal Light after the 1st class change.

Sounds pretty good and similar to one that I finished with the new update, Death Hand, Dragon Master but went with Bishop fot Carlie for that curse upgrade with dark force, dark saber and empowered antimagic combo once I got Lise's final weapon.

Edited May 7, 2020 by smileless

[rpschamp 0]

On 5/7/2020 at 6:23 AM, praetarius5018 said:

It should have nothing to do with your hardware. The SNES only had so much CPU power (~3.5 MHz I believe) so if the emulator is even trying to be accurate it will severly limit how many instructions are executed per frame (and ofc not all instructions cost the same).
If I can trust the logs I made with frame advance this averages to 10-12k instructions per frame.
What I did was to take several compressed functions that are used often like checks during attack swings and uncompress them, I have the rom space to do that vanilla did not, which saves about 200-300 instructions per section (~300-450 instructions down to ~80-170).
I doubt it is that notable, we're speaking maybe half a frame worth of instructions over a 30 frame attack sequence.

It may also be that I'm running Hawk, Kevin, Carlie instead of X, Angela, Carlie that I've been running for the past year, so I'm not locking myself up with spells as often.

Speaking of which, I'm loving Hawk, Kevin, Carlie on the new update; the new HP rasping on yellow damage weapons are great for Hawk and Kevin if you pump up their luck, and I've rediscovered the simple joy of the Bastard Slam. Bill & Ben were tough without Angela though.

Edited May 8, 2020 by rpschamp

[rpschamp 0]

On 5/5/2020 at 2:49 AM, Nesouk said:

I actually didn't finish that run, did get to the God beasts beat the first 2 god beasts. 

Honnestly in no heal light run Fenrir Knight is probably the best character to have, especially if you have a mage, it's even more true now that she has Leaf Saber on top of moon saber, and her final weapon is really good.

Right now Death Hand and Wanderer are also really good, Wanderer was already good in no heal light run, now his magic shield give you all you need in regard to buffs, on top of all the utility spells and a consistent source of damage with Half Vanish. Death Hand give you that with Magic Shield to but also Speed Up, and his final weapon to reduce defense will help.

Rune Master is IMO Angela best class for no heal light the crowd control she get with LV3 Spells really going through areas with minimum damage.

Dark Hawk is always a solid choice regardless IMO.

I hope this doesn't reveal too much, but after this new Seashore Cave mini-boss, I'm no longer excited about a No Heal Light team. In fact, this is a problem for teams that don't get Heal Light at the first class change.... Is there another strategy to beat this boss, apart from over-leveling? (To be fair, I was level 26 versus mini-boss level 32, but I'm not sure an extra six levels would have made much of a difference.)

Or maybe this is a way of giving an extra advantage to teams that learn Heal Light at the first class change?

Edited May 9, 2020 by rpschamp

[smileless 0]

5 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I hope this doesn't reveal too much, but after this new Seashore Cave mini-boss, I'm no longer excited about a No Heal Light team. In fact, this is a problem for teams that don't get Heal Light at the first class change.... Is there another strategy to beat this boss, apart from over-leveling? (To be fair, I was level 26 versus mini-boss level 32, but I'm not sure an extra six levels would have made much of a difference.)

Or maybe this is a way of giving an extra advantage to teams that learn Heal Light at the first class change?

Counters wreck that miniboss, and with my Ninja/Valkyrie/Gladiator run I had those weapons from dwarf village equipped that restore hp when dealing yellow damage.

I used them till I got heal light with Vanadise, I think those were a pretty nice addition to help the the portions of the game that had no heal light. But still I can't imagine doing no heal light runs post final class change.

[praetarius5018 111]

9 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I hope this doesn't reveal too much, but after this new Seashore Cave mini-boss, I'm no longer excited about a No Heal Light team.

Spoiler

The idea for that miniboss was simple:
a friendly reminder that you now always have the tool to deal with physical resistant mobs - counters. And that is preferably understood before they are everywhere in the moon forest and the player is locked into their final classes.

As such those mobs have double their naturaly magic defense, a full INT Angela deals barely double digit damage with her spells.

Also Camillas felt like a natural pick there, in vanilla they serve no real purpose ever, here they at least fit thematically to Jagan, basically his elite agents.

 

[rpschamp 0]

9 hours ago, smileless said:

Counters wreck that miniboss, and with my Ninja/Valkyrie/Gladiator run I had those weapons from dwarf village equipped that restore hp when dealing yellow damage.

I used them till I got heal light with Vanadise, I think those were a pretty nice addition to help the the portions of the game that had no heal light. But still I can't imagine doing no heal light runs post final class change.

Thanks guys, I feel stupid, it's right there in the change log, I should have reviewed it when I ran into trouble. I also think that I was too under-leveled here; they were basically one-shotting me before I even got a chance to counter.

6 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

The idea for that miniboss was simple:
a friendly reminder that you now always have the tool to deal with physical resistant mobs - counters. And that is preferably understood before they are everywhere in the moon forest and the player is locked into their final classes.

As such those mobs have double their naturaly magic defense, a full INT Angela deals barely double digit damage with her spells.

Also Camillas felt like a natural pick there, in vanilla they serve no real purpose ever, here they at least fit thematically to Jagan, basically his elite agents.

 

I do like the mini-boss and agree that it fits well thematically; now the appearance of you-know-who does not feel so random at the end of the cave.

One weird thing about the mechanics of this fight:

Spoiler

The way I beat them was by hiding in the corner below the ledge they appear on and casting MT Heal Light with Carlie to bring down their HP. Interestingly, they wouldn't die on a Heal Light; the first time I fought them, I must have cast the spell 20-30 times, racking up 5000-8000 damage before I decided that something was wrong, so I threw a Holy Ball for 11 damage and they died. I knew this couldn't be right, so I reset and cast four Heal Lights for about 1000 damage, Holy Ball, they didn't die, then four more Heal Lights for another 1000 damage, Holy Ball, they died. It seems they each have somewhere between 1000 and 2000 HP and cannot die on a Heal Light, though it does effectively drain their HP. I don't remember the Carmillas you meet later in the game behaving like this, though I mainly killed them with Angela's fire spells so I could be wrong. I will try to Heal Light the Carmillas in the Moonlight Forest when I get there and see whether it can knock them out without any extra damage.

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by rpschamp

[praetarius5018 111]

Spoiler

That is actually normal behaviour.
Healing can't kill. This is a side effect from making it not kill your characters should they put on undead armor.
Heal Light is meant as a support skill not as a dps skill so I don't see an issue there.

 

[rpschamp 0]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:52 AM, smileless said:

Warrior Monk, Wanderer, Necromamcer seems like a really fun one to try.

Well, after playing a few bosses and the Seashore Cave with Dark Hawk, Dark Kevin, Light Carlie, I've found myself too often wishing for a caster. As much as I'm enjoying Bastard Slam, I'm going to backtrack to the first class change and give Light Hawk, Light Kevin, Dark Carlie a try like I originally intended.

EDIT: This team is going very well so far. Thanks to Bill & Ben's corrected weakness, Hawk and Kevin wearing Siren's Claws and Carlie throwing Unicorn Heads took them down in a way I have never experienced. This is usually one of the hardest fights in the game for me, but the corrected weakness (along with the HP rasping weapons) makes a huge difference. My fight against Gorva was also a lot of fun; just to challenge myself, I let Carlie enter the spirit world and took him on with Hawk and Kevin. It helped that they were both resistant to dark, but I managed to get their Arrows and Heal Light up to around 200 damage per hit. Gorva went down not too long after one spell cycle. One more thing to note:

Spoiler

For the Seashore Cave mini-boss, Hawk's non-physical spells also get around their defenses (in my case, Spikes, but should also work for Jutsus), since only their magical defense is high and Hawk's spells hit against physical defense.

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by rpschamp

[rpschamp 0]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:52 AM, smileless said:

The final weapons of Nightblade and Necromancer seem to go best with the armor that revives you at the cost of MP. 

With my Paladin/RuneMaster/Nectomancer run, for the Dragon Emperor fight I went on Gnome Day, Diamond Saber and just casted Earthquake with Angela, Half Vanish with Carlie until her hp reached half then switched to Machine Golem. I had Carlie equiped with Sage Armor, Protect Ring and the Ring that casts from HP. I barely have any money left haha, you really can afford only one of those Pedan armors.

Next in line are these teams:

Ninja Master, Vanadise, Duelist going to be fun using Duelist for the first time. I guess with his final weapon damage depends on how close he is to the target?

Warrior Monk, Wanderer, Necromamcer seems like a really fun one to try.

Since I'm planning to run Necromancer in my current game (and considering Rune Master for my next game), I have a few questions about your Paladin/Rune Master/Necromancer team when you have some time:

1) Rune Earrings have been changed in this version so that they subtract max HP x MP cost/32, and Necromancer's spells generally have a high MP cost; by this formula, Black Curse costs almost half your HP. I assume that for longer battles, you would constantly rely on revive armor to keep her from dying. How did you manage keeping her alive to recover the 15 MP between revives? I'm wondering whether it's worth it to build up her Intelligence stat to keep her MP regeneration high for this purpose.

2) Did you notice whether Rune Earrings still lengthen cast time? I notice that this text was removed from the documentation.

3) Did you find Black Rain to still be useful, now that Necromancer's neutral element spell armor can no longer be used to bypass absorb/reflect?

4) Did you try the petrify resistance/reflect armor/Stone Cloud strategy with Paladin and Rune Master? If so, was it useful?

Thanks!

[smileless 0]

1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

1) Rune Earrings have been changed in this version so that they subtract max HP x MP cost/32, and Necromancer's spells generally have a high MP cost; by this formula, Black Curse costs almost half your HP. I assume that for longer battles, you would constantly rely on revive armor to keep her from dying. How did you manage keeping her alive to recover the 15 MP between revives? I'm wondering whether it's worth it to build up her Intelligence stat to keep her MP regeneration high for this purpose

I used Magic Walnuts, tho keep in mind the only fight I tried that strat was on Dragon Emperor as I bought that armor only then.

1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

2) Did you notice whether Rune Earrings still lengthen cast time? I notice that this text was removed from the documentation.

I haven't it probably was removed

1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

3) Did you find Black Rain to still be useful, now that Necromancer's neutral element spell armor can no longer be used to bypass absorb/reflect?

It was useful but you have to be careful at it. Ideally with the curse upgrade I used also Carlies Gremlin summon to inflict curse on enemies one by one, or use antimagic if there was a dark resistant enemy.

I also had Archmage and her final weapon which allowed me to multi target Cold Blaze very useful for mobs.

1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

4) Did you try the petrify resistance/reflect armor/Stone Cloud strategy with Paladin and Rune Master? If so, was it useful?

I think I would find this strat more useful if I didn't hace Necromancer, since I got her with shadow spells  curse upgrade was very useful. 

If I had Paladin, Rune Master, DragonMaster/Fenrir Knight/Warrior Monk let's say I think that strat would be a lot more useful than when you can use curse upgrade instead. But same idea still, I have used that strat but with Curse. Rune Master and Necromancer was a very powerful combo.

Personally it was fun for me, I never used a party of Duran/Angela/Carlie in the original game, I hated using them, could lead to some of the worst teams in the game at least for me. Sin of Mana really nailed the balance, at least for me in Normal mode.

[rpschamp 0]

8 hours ago, smileless said:

Personally it was fun for me, I never used a party of Duran/Angela/Carlie in the original game, I hated using them, could lead to some of the worst teams in the game at least for me. Sin of Mana really nailed the balance, at least for me in Normal mode.

I completely agree, to the extent that after I started playing Sin of Mana, I played teams focused on dealing spell damage with Angela and Carlie (or Hawk) almost exclusively, since I never used this type of team in the original. Revised enemy counters, aggro shields, and new spell strategies (like Curse) all contribute to the new balance. My current game is the first time I've run Kevin in years.

Missing Angela, I'm trying to come up with a new team for her to play after my Wanderer/Warrior Monk/Necromancer run. I was originally thinking Dark Hawk/Dark Angela/Light Carlie to take advantage of the shared fire resistance; Nightblade/Magus/Bishop sounds strong, but I've never really enjoyed playing Magus or Bishop. Vanadis/Nightblade/Rune Master could be fun, but this sounds quite similar to the team that you just played.

What I'd really love to do is come up with a killer spell-damage team for Grand Divina. I used her extensively in older versions of this mod; to me, the most interesting thing about her is how she transforms into an instantaneous elemental spell-damage dealer by the second half of the game (after building up her Agility). One way to really properly use this would be to transition her into the lead character and set her partners to spells that require cast time while she fires off instant damage spells one after the other, keeping attackers occupied by knocking them about the screen. Her first partner might be someone like Light Lise or Wanderer (or maybe Paladin) with access to buffs, damage spells, and possibly shields for the early game, and her second partner either Dark Hawk or Dark Carlie with access to debuff and damage spells. Someone with a saber spell would also be nice if you want to go for shared resistance. Some ideas:

- Grand Divina, Star Lancer, Evil Shaman: Femmes Fatales reboot. Evil Shaman gets some nice MT damage/debuff spells, while Star Lancer gets Marduk to add to the damage and Saint Saber to go for an easy shared Light resistance with Dusk Dress on Angela. Lise can keep the team safe in the first half of the game with shields.

- Grand Divina, Star Lancer, Ninja Master: Similar to above, but with more debuff range, Analyze to support Star Lancer's Energy Ball, and an exchange of Evil Shaman's raw spell power for Ninja Master's melee capability and versatility. This team is harder to get shared resistance, but it is possible through Saint Saber, Dusk Dress, Utsushimi Cape, and Silver Wolf Garea. The lack of Antimagic should not be a major problem.

- Grand Divina, Wanderer, Necromancer: I played this team through the first few God Beasts and can confirm that it is awesome, even more so in the current version since Wanderer now gets Magic Shield. Shared Dark resistance through Dark Saber, Mananan Robe, and Eremos Crown. No Mind Up or Power Up, and more importantly, no shield user, so it takes some practice if you're used to the aggro advantage (the first time I tried these three, I gave up, but I found them easier the second time).

Edited May 12, 2020 by rpschamp

[Nesouk 49]

I actually run Gran Divina, Star Lancer, Necromancer an all around great team, that has almost everything cover, just lack some physical damage.

[smileless 0]

15 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Missing Angela, I'm trying to come up with a new team for her to play after my Wanderer/Warrior Monk/Necromancer run. I was originally thinking Dark Hawk/Dark Angela/Light Carlie to take advantage of the shared fire resistance; Nightblade/Magus/Bishop sounds strong, but I've never really enjoyed playing Magus or Bishop. Vanadis/Nightblade/Rune Master could be fun, but this sounds quite similar to the team that you just played.

What I'd really love to do is come up with a killer spell-damage team for Grand Divina. I used her extensively in older versions of this mod; to me, the most interesting thing about her is how she transforms into an instantaneous elemental spell-damage dealer by the second half of the game (after building up her Agility). One way to really properly use this would be to transition her into the lead character and set her partners to spells that require cast time while she fires off instant damage spells one after the other, keeping attackers occupied by knocking them about the screen. Her first partner might be someone like Light Lise or Wanderer (or maybe Paladin) with access to buffs, damage spells, and possibly shields for the early game, and her second partner either Dark Hawk or Dark Carlie with access to debuff and damage spells. Someone with a saber spell would also be nice if you want to go for shared resistance

 

You could also use Warrior Monk to free Lise from her role as a healer, misses only one debuff and has leaf saber, and have Vanadise make use of her final weapon on boss fights to do elemental damage assisting Angela, Grand Divina with her final weapon or Rune Master would be great picks there.

Nightblade/Magus/Bishop sounds pretty strong also, Bishop cleaning those annoying dragon zombies, Magus has death spell. If you level up to 99 and face Dark Lich you will do you will have two spells to Nuke this boss. Death Spell also works greatly on bosses with no weaknesses but I recommend probably having one of those rings that absorb mp.

Spoiler

Dark Lich's Magic Shield does seem to cancel turn undead causing to deal 0 damage, something to keep in mind when using Bishop. She is still very useful in that fight with the sabers she provides and heals.

15 hours ago, rpschamp said:

- Grand Divina, Star Lancer, Evil Shaman: Femmes Fatales reboot. Evil Shaman gets some nice MT damage/debuff spells, while Star Lancer gets Marduk to add to the damage and Saint Saber to go for an easy shared Light resistance with Dusk Dress on Angela. Lise can keep the team safe in the first half of the game with shields.

This looks pretty damn good. Might take this suggestion for my all female and all male teams I plan on running at some point. 

15 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Grand Divina, Star Lancer, Ninja Master: Similar to above, but with more debuff range, Analyze to support Star Lancer's Energy Ball, and an exchange of Evil Shaman's raw spell power for Ninja Master's melee capability and versatility. This team is harder to get shared resistance, but it is possible through Saint Saber, Dusk Dress, Utsushimi Cape, and Silver Wolf Garea. The lack of Antimagic should not be a major problem.

Yeah don't think lack of Anti Magic is an issue here, you have coverage of six main elements, Marduke and Hawkeye also has Shuriken to take care of those mobs that reflect elements when needed or stick to counters with him. Wanted to run this team back then.

15 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Grand Divina, Wanderer, Necromancer: I played this team through the first few God Beasts and can confirm that it is awesome, even more so in the current version since Wanderer now gets Magic Shield. Shared Dark resistance through Dark Saber, Mananan Robe, and Eremos Crown. No Mind Up or Power Up, and more importantly, no shield user, so it takes some practice if you're used to the aggro advantage (the first time I tried these three, I gave up, but I found them easier the second time).

It would be nice to play it more defensively with this, now it's much better due to Magic Shield taking care of physical and magic defense.

Edited May 12, 2020 by smileless

[Serafie1999AD 4]

17 hours ago, rpschamp said:

- Grand Divina, Star Lancer, Ninja Master: Similar to above, but with more debuff range, Analyze to support Star Lancer's Energy Ball, and an exchange of Evil Shaman's raw spell power for Ninja Master's melee capability and versatility. This team is harder to get shared resistance, but it is possible through Saint Saber, Dusk Dress, Utsushimi Cape, and Silver Wolf Garea. The lack of Antimagic should not be a major problem.

I was thinking of something like this, except Light Carlie instead of Grand Divina to get healing and Sabers earlier. In a team of Light Lise, Dark Hawk and Light Carlie, I'm still trying to decide which couples to use. Lise as a Star Lancer seems like the better choice now that Carlie is already taking care of healing.

Bishop vs. Sage:
Bishop's ultimate weapon makes her a strong fighter, Turn Undead also has its uses, and Magic Shield is great if you need to reapply defensive buffs on a single character. On the other hand, Sage gets Leaf Saber for MP restoring, Dark Force for curse effect, and Rainbow Dust against a few enemies who aren't resistant to earth, wind, ice or fire.

Ninja Master ve. Nightblade:
Ninja Master's Analyze should work well with Lise's Energy Ball, and his ultimate weapon is there to make way for Fireblaze + counter, and Lise's Aura Wave lets you have a level 1 tech ready quickly. Nightblade gets Deadly Weapon for lowering bosses' HP, and Black Rain for curse effect.

Which of these do you think would work the best?