Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

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A question about this new property for Wendel-class weapons: "strong attack can use 5 MP to have regular cooldown". The documentation claims this can be done, but it doesn't explain how it can be done. Do you need to press a certain button during a strong attack, or is the cooldown automatically lowered if you have at least 5 MP to spend?

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10 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I did say that I thought Heal Light should be "upgradable" to Sudden, but this was just to keep the terms straight, since Sudden is listed in the skills file under "Possible Upgrades". Although with Sage Stone, this would also obviously be a tradeoff :-)

Nah, Sudden is only intended for buffs; I'm not a fan of "easy healing" since that leads to stupid situtations where it doesn't matter if the boss deals 1% damage or 99% damage with an attack.

4 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

A question about this new property for Wendel-class weapons: "strong attack can use 5 MP to have regular cooldown". The documentation claims this can be done, but it doesn't explain how it can be done. Do you need to press a certain button during a strong attack, or is the cooldown automatically lowered if you have at least 5 MP to spend?

It happens automatically if you have 5+ MP and do a strong attack.
I mainly made this effect to give Angela and Charlie something to do before FMH.

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4 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Here's an alternative that takes advantage of a base resistance/elemental saber strategy:

Wanderer/Rogue, Warrior Monk, Necromancer

Every character here has a base resistance against Dark, and Necromancer has Dark Saber; cast Dark Saber on enemies and melee/tech damage goes down up to 45% for all characters without needing any resistance equipment. I tried this with my Wanderer, Grand Divina, Necromancer team, with Mananan Robe on Grand Divina; it worked wonders against werewolves, knights, and the like; Lugar was a joke. With Wanderer, this team gets all debuffs, all buffs except for the offensive half of Mind Up and Speed Up, two double-hitters with Power Up, Energy Ball/Analyze for critical hits, Heal Light, Tinkle Rain, Aura Wave, Antimagic, and Leaf Saber to support two casters. With Rogue, you sacrifice Aura Wave, Antimagic, and Energy Ball, but pick up a better offensive caster and all buffs by inverting Necromancer.

The missing thing with this team is the basic elemental sabers, but with heavy damage already coming from two double-hitters and Necromancer, you should be fine just collecting/buying them for boss fights or going with elemental accessories instead.

EDIT: Actually, I may run this team instead of the Wanderer, Fenrir Knight, Grand Divina team I mentioned above since I haven't started that game yet. I've run Grand Divina in pretty much every team I've used recently, and I'm always looking to replace Lise, so this might give me some new perspective.

Sounds like a great team, love it. I think Wanderer may be better due to Magic Shield taking care of the teams defenses, and supporting Warrior Monks healing power at the same time.

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1 hour ago, smileless said:

Sounds like a great team, love it. I think Wanderer may be better due to Magic Shield taking care of the teams defenses, and supporting Warrior Monks healing power at the same time.

Thanks! Aura Wave should be more important in this version since the tech weapons have been kicked down a point. Rune Earrings have also been changed to suck up more HP, so Leaf Saber should be more important as well.

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Overall I would say Death Hand, Dragon Master, Sage was pretty fun overall.

Next I think I will do Paladin, RuneMaster, Necromancer party. No speed up, but I think I will play very defensively with this party and using reflect armor+stone cloud combo with Paladin for mobs. While for bosses there is magic shield, sabers, black course, half vanish, and other spells that Angela and Carlie provide. Duran can throw in here and there turn undead to get rid of those undead mobs (those friggin Dragon Zombies), and be a tank, don't think I would use his final weapon here, there is enough spells that Angela and Carlie provide. Of course you could also make use of the curse upgrade with Necromancer, more of a safe strategy on bosses tho with that I feel.

Edited by smileless

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Speaking about Turn Undead, it and Death Spell just became a lot more useful with the mob scaling patch since it would always hit on same level mobs, right? Did anyone do a playthrough with that patch on yet?

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1 hour ago, Kei said:

Speaking about Turn Undead, it and Death Spell just became a lot more useful with the mob scaling patch since it would always hit on same level mobs, right? Did anyone do a playthrough with that patch on yet?

Enemies with death spell will also have the same advantage over you, like those power boulders for example. Tho am not sure if there is any other mob that casts spells like death spell.

Edited by smileless

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6 hours ago, smileless said:

Enemies with death spell will also have the same advantage over you, like those power boulders for example. Tho am not sure if there is any other mob that casts spells like death spell.

That makes sense, but I think it's only fair (since Gorva doesn't have Death Spell anymore, at least...).

Aside from that, I was thinking that maybe the scaling patch doesn't just incentivize skipping fights whenever you can, then? That's if bosses scale to player level as well, though.

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Bosses also scale to your level though their stats/gimmicks are ofc. optimized for their intended level(s).
At least one godbeast is 100% unbeatable if you never class change.

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2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Bosses also scale to your level though their stats/gimmicks are ofc. optimized for their intended level(s).
At least one godbeast is 100% unbeatable if you never class change.

I see, that makes sense. I think I'll refrain from using the patch then, as it probably makes the game a bit easier overall

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I don't think the scaling works as intended in the early game. I loaded up an early save in the Cave of Waterfalls, all the enemies were on level 1 (even though my characters were on level 9), and Full Metal Hugger took me 20 seconds to beat on Hard difficulty.

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sorta, I forgot to exclude the dummy data of the not-yet-gotten allies from the level calculation there, so they default to 1 until you pick the 2nd partner

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3 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

sorta, I forgot to exclude the dummy data of the not-yet-gotten allies from the level calculation there, so they default to 1 until you pick the 2nd partner

Is this possible to fix by averaging only according to your present 1-2 members when you have less than 3 party members? I thought you said that the enemey level is scaled according to your highest level, though, so the missing party members being on level 1 shouldn't affect the enemy level.

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On 5/1/2020 at 1:26 PM, smileless said:

Overall I would say Death Hand, Dragon Master, Sage was pretty fun overall.

I've been brainstorming more teams for Death Hand, and I came up with a variant somewhere between your team and my Wanderer, Warrior Monk, Necromancer idea:

Nightblade/Ninja Master, Death Hand, Bishop/Sage

This team can go for all Earth resistance/Diamond Saber if Carlie wears the Golden Robe, or Fire resistance/Flame Saber if Kevin wears the Blue Uniform. With Bishop, you get close to the three strongest hitters in the game with Power Up/Down and Death Hand rasping physical defense and the six main sabers. With Sage, you lose a saber and your third attacker but get two strong MT spell casters with Mind Up/Down and Death Hand rasping magic defense, as well as Leaf Saber and a passive heal (20% stronger in version 1.2). Either way, you can go for physical or magical damage depending on the situation. You also get all debuffs, most buffs, Heal Light, Tinkle Rain, Aura Wave, Lunatic, and Life Booster (with Sage). Ninja Master can be substituted for Nightblade to trade Black Rain (Sage can already set Curse if you pick her) and some ST elemental spells for the MT stat downs and some extra support spells.

This is also close to the Death Hand, Archmage, Bishop team Nesouk suggested, sacrificing some magic power and Antimagic for a second double hitter. That team can go for all Earth resistance/Diamond Saber in the same way.

In general, I've become interested in these shared base resistance teams. Here's how it plays out for each element:

- Fire: Light/Dark Hawk, Dark Angela, Light Carlie (for example, the Nightblade, Magus, Bishop team Nesouk suggested)

- Ice: Light/Dark Duran, Light Kevin, Dark Lise

- Light: Dark Duran, Light Lise, Light/Dark Carlie

- Shadow: Light/Dark Kevin, Light Hawk, Dark Carlie (for example, Wanderer, Warrior Monk, Necromancer)

- Earth: Dark Kevin, Dark Hawk, Light/Dark Angela - no Diamond Saber or no Heal Light, so either not strictly possible or not favorable

- Wind: Light Duran, Light/Dark Lise, Light Angela - no Thunder Saber, so not strictly possible

Many more teams are possible than this by using elemental resist armor; for example, Light Carlie can sub into the Earth team by wearing the Golden Robe. I like this because the melee/tech damage reduction is significant (approaching 45% at higher damage), and it makes use of the elemental resist armor that has typically been underused.

Edited by rpschamp

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47 minutes ago, rpschamp said:
47 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I've been brainstorming more teams for Death Hand, and I came up with a variant somewhere between your team and my Wanderer, Warrior Monk, Necromancer idea:

Nightblade, Death Hand, Bishop/Sage

This team can go for all Earth resistance/Diamond Saber if Carlie wears the Golden Robe, or Fire resistance/Flame Saber if Kevin wears the Blue Uniform. With Bishop, you get close to the three strongest hitters in the game with Power Up/Down and Death Hand rasping physical defense and the six main sabers. With Sage, you lose a saber and your third attacker but get two strong MT spell casters with Mind Up/Down and Death Hand rasping magic defense, as well as Leaf Saber and a passive heal (20% stronger in version 1.2). Either way, you can go for physical or magical damage depending on the situation. You also get all debuffs, most buffs, Heal Light, Tinkle Rain, Aura Wave, Lunatic, and Life Booster (with Sage).

This is also close to the Death Hand, Archmage, Bishop team Nesouk suggested, sacrificing some magic power and Antimagic for a second double hitter. That team can go for all Earth resistance/Diamond Saber in the same way.

In general, I've become interested in these shared base resistance teams. Here is how it plays out for each element:

- Fire: Light/Dark Hawk, Dark Angela, Light Carlie (for example, the Nightblade, Magus, Bishop team Nesouk suggested)

- Ice: Light/Dark Duran, Light Kevin, Dark Lise

- Light: Dark Duran, Light Lise, Light/Dark Carlie

- Shadow: Light/Dark Kevin, Light Hawk, Dark Carlie

- Earth: Dark Kevin, Dark Hawk, Light/Dark Angela - no Diamond Saber or No Heal Light, so either not strictly possible or not favorable

- Wind: Light Duran, Light/Dark Lise, Light Angela - no Thunder Saber, so not strictly possible

Many more teams are possible than this by using elemental resist armor; for example, Light Carlie can sub into the Earth team by wearing the Golden Robe. I like this because the melee damage reduction is significant (approaching 45% at higher damage), and it makes use of the elemental resist armor that has typically been underused.

 

This seems like a very good strat to use for fights like Bigieu especially,  where her physical attacks hit like a friggin truck.

Edited by smileless

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One question about element armor, if I have a weakness to an element and equip the armor/accessory that resists that same element, they cancel each other out and the character becomes neutral to it, right? So if I wanted to take a character that's weak to an element and give him resistance to it, I'd have to equip both the armor and the accessory. Is that how it works? 

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16 minutes ago, smileless said:

This seems like a very good strat to use for fights like Bigieu especially,  where her physical attacks hit like a friggin truck.

That's what I'm thinking; I can confirm it worked really well on Lugar.

Ninja Master, Dervish, Sage is also possible, trading Death Hand's final weapon, Magic Shield, Aura Wave, Lunatic, and Dark Saber for Power Up, Moon Saber, Antimagic, and Protect Up when inverted. The colors work out particularly nicely; I call this team "Purple Reign".

19 minutes ago, Kei said:

One question about element armor, if I have a weakness to an element and equip the armor/accessory that resists that same element, they cancel each other out and the character becomes neutral to it, right? So if I wanted to take a character that's weak to an element and give him resistance to it, I'd have to equip both the armor and the accessory. Is that how it works? 

I'm not actually sure about this and would like it confirmed. IIRC, when I put Mananan Robe (Shadow resistance) on Light Angela (weak against Shadow) and cast Evil Gate on her, it seemed to do less than neutral spell damage, but not quite the 50% damage reduction I was expecting.

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39 minutes ago, Kei said:

One question about element armor, if I have a weakness to an element and equip the armor/accessory that resists that same element, they cancel each other out and the character becomes neutral to it, right? So if I wanted to take a character that's weak to an element and give him resistance to it, I'd have to equip both the armor and the accessory. Is that how it works? 

You get both, 1.5x from weakness and 0.5x from resist for 0.75x total.

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1 minute ago, praetarius5018 said:

You get both, 1.5x from weakness and 0.5x from resist for 0.75x total.

Interesting, so to actually have a resistance I'd have to use the remove weakness armor + resist element accessory right?

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12 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

You get both, 1.5x from weakness and 0.5x from resist for 0.75x total.

This explains my results.

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On 4/30/2020 at 3:41 PM, praetarius5018 said:

That is not an upgrade but a tradeoff!
You sacrifice a use of a tech to get spell X out ASAP.

Might be useful with the 3xTP = crit rate weapon to hold unto the insta cast for when you need it and until then enjoy the extra crits to compensate for the lack of techs or something.

One question on how Beastman Collar interacts with Warrior Monk's final weapon: When casting Heal Light, would his tech points count towards his healing power, or would they get removed by the Beastman Collar prior to the Heal Light calculation?

Edited by rpschamp

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I been thinking on a duran/kevin/hawk team

I definitely want to go Gladiator for Duran, Monk for Kevin and Ninja for Hawk. But I'm not so sure about my last tier classes tho.

On one hand, sabers for swordmasters and multi target elemental sabers but duelist got aura wave and anti magic alongside eruption sword.

God hand is very good with life booster, counter magic with stat buffs/debuufs and healing alongside tinkle rain. However warrior monk got multi target healing with body change and analysis (what does this spell do anyway)

There Ninja Master vs Nightblade. Do I want multi target jutsu or the extras stuff nightblade has alongside fire/poison breath that are useful.

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6 hours ago, Kei said:

Interesting, so to actually have a resistance I'd have to use the remove weakness armor + resist element accessory right?

I usually use the helms that remove the weakness of either base or advanced class depending with the resist armor for god beasts, while for final battles the remove weakness armor or the ring from Jad that can't be unequiped.

Edited by smileless

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3 hours ago, HeavyC4 said:

I been thinking on a duran/kevin/hawk team

I definitely want to go Gladiator for Duran, Monk for Kevin and Ninja for Hawk. But I'm not so sure about my last tier classes tho.

On one hand, sabers for swordmasters and multi target elemental sabers but duelist got aura wave and anti magic alongside eruption sword.

God hand is very good with life booster, counter magic with stat buffs/debuufs and healing alongside tinkle rain. However warrior monk got multi target healing with body change and analysis (what does this spell do anyway)

There Ninja Master vs Nightblade. Do I want multi target jutsu or the extras stuff nightblade has alongside fire/poison breath that are useful.

Quite tricky with last update Kevin's Light path is pretty unique in that he is a healer but also a debuffer, so he and Dark Hawk are similar in that department. You'd want at least Protect Up and Mind Up.

Warrior Monk's analysis decrease the target resistance to Crit, in other word it increase your chance of inflicting Crit. Ninja Master has it to and it could have a good synery with Sword Master's Energy Ball.

I'd say God Hand, Swordmaster and Ninja Master are a potential good combo, God Hand give Power Up, can assist Hawk with debuff duty, Counter Magic to increase Magic Defense and his Heal Light power, Swordmaster complete the offensive buff duty with Sabers and Moon and Leaf Saber can be usefull to, he also has Speed Up to decrease cast time and Energy Ball to increase Crit Rate finally Ninja Master is your debuffer with Jutsus and Detect. You'll lack Antimagic so might have to buy some for some bosses and Protect Up, you can farm Bulette's Scales on Ogre Box for this, or you can choose to give the Invert Armor on God Hand turning his debuff spells into buff spells.

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4 hours ago, HeavyC4 said:

I been thinking on a duran/kevin/hawk team

I definitely want to go Gladiator for Duran, Monk for Kevin and Ninja for Hawk. But I'm not so sure about my last tier classes tho.

On one hand, sabers for swordmasters and multi target elemental sabers but duelist got aura wave and anti magic alongside eruption sword.

God hand is very good with life booster, counter magic with stat buffs/debuufs and healing alongside tinkle rain. However warrior monk got multi target healing with body change and analysis (what does this spell do anyway)

There Ninja Master vs Nightblade. Do I want multi target jutsu or the extras stuff nightblade has alongside fire/poison breath that are useful.

If you wanna do Durans path, you might need a Magic Shield or Counter Magic user. Wont tell you where, you will find out eventually, or you can try it without either of them it is doable but it's more difficult.

I personally was thinking of running Swordmaster, Warrior Monk, Wanderer. You got debuffs, power up, Magic Shield (which has the defensive part of mind up and def up, which covers that for the three of them), Swordmaster would also selfcast speed up and energy ball, also has every saber. Has antimagic, also could attack magically too, half vanish with Wanderers final weapon is pretty good.

Other Lord (heal, def up, speed up, speed down, energy ball), Ninja Master (debuffs), God Hand (power up, def down, mind down, counter magic, moon saber). No antimagic but since counter attacks now ignore physical resistance would be a pretty good team to make use of counter attacks, but you will still need antimagic fot some bosses so might wanna buy some specters eye.

Or you can switch instead of God Hand for Death Hand but lose some debuffs and power up for dark saber, magic shield, aura wave, lunatic. I would prefer more God Hand for that set up tho.

Edited by smileless

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