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Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

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they have less chance per hit but hit twice per attack, so once you get some more luck stat they come out ahead in chance per attack to succeed with the status effects

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Posted (edited)

On 6/30/2019 at 1:02 PM, blackrabite said:

Anybody mind with a quick review of this setup (playing on Normal):

Duran - Lord (heals, buffs, energy ball)

Hawkeye - Ninja Master (crit damage, debuffs)

Angela - idk between Rune Master or Magus

I'm late in my reply but, FWIW, in my Angela + Duran playthrough i wound up doing Lord, Archmage, Nightblade. Archmage brings a lot of neat tools to the table (including the all powerful anti magic) and with the armor that turns debuffs into buffs, you have all 4 stat ups between her and Lord. Nightblade hits harder than ninja master so its a personal preference for me as I like bosses to go faster. Obviously thats a no-go if you made Angela a Delvar at first class change though.

 

EDIT: Regarding a Death Hand party, I usually struggle with making dark Kevin work since i usually like to make him a healer tbh. I'd think you would want light Duran (light Carlie makes less sense since you already have elemental sabres) and a strong debuffer. Maybe something like Paladin (heals, saint sabre, anti magic, and some buffs) with Necromancer (crowd control, TR, and the wonderful black curse)? Just spitballing ideas.

Edited by Barnacle_Ed
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Honnestly Hawk's Dark Class are both good I prefer Ninja Master cause higher Agility (= Stronger Jutsus/Shuriken, better Evasion and Hit Rate), higher Luck (better for Crit Build and Crit Resistance) combine with Detect (reduce ennemy's crit resistance) and of course MT Jutsus and Shuriken are very good for debuffing Random (and some multiple bosses like the Golem Machines) which was pretty valuable for me on Hard (especially considering that unlike regular stat Down Whitelight doesn't make Jutsus MT). On that note Arch Mage also goes well with Nightblade cause of Aura Wave.

For Death Hand yeah I definitly think Paladin is a good pair cause of Anti-Magic, Def UP, Magic Shield (which increase Magic Defense) and Saint Saber being one of the sabers Death Hand lack, for the third member well Necromancer could work I guess, I was also thinking of Lise's Star Lancer with Armor that invert Debuff and Buff it would give every MT Debuff and Star Lancer's Marduke is a very good crowd control option thanks to Silence, I don't know if the armor that invert Buff/Debuff also affect Aura Wave and Energy Ball if not then these are still good buffs for the others, or Dragon Master could also be an interesting option (would replace Paladin by Lord then I think) especially once it get it's final weapon that make Anti-Magic propagate weakness, then you would just have to cast it and then just have to cast any Sabers Death Hand has just to get increase damage.

Also while I'm on it, since I'm doing my Dragon Emperor storyline run currently and already decided the team (Duelist, Arch Mage and Vanadis), I plan to do the Dark Lich route afterward with Kevin and Carlie but I want to experiment with Light Hawk and Dark Carlie so I thought of this set up :

Hawk as Rogue - Carlie as Evil Shaman - Kevin as Warrior Monk

Rogue and Evil Shaman get all debuff through their abilities (Def Down with Cutter Missile, Speed Down with Landmine, Power Down with Ghost Road and Mind Down with Demon Breath)
The team also get all buff (Speed Up with Rogue, Def Up with Evil Shaman and Power Up and Mind Up with Warrior Monk).
Anti-Magic with Evil Shaman. Reduce Max HP option with Rogue and Evil Shaman. Heal Light with Warrior Monk, Tinkle Rain with Evil Shaman.
Rogue also get MT Sleep Flower and Body Change which seems good for Crowd Control, also seems that by increasing his Luck, PIE and INT he could be a powerfull pseudo-mage (especially with his final weapon) boosting his Luck could also makes him valuable with weapon that inflict Statut Effect.
This team seems promising the only thing it misses are Saber spells, having only Leaf Saber (which admitadly is a good one tough).

What do you think ?

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Nesouk said:

Hawk as Rogue - Carlie as Evil Shaman - Kevin as Warrior Monk

Rogue and Evil Shaman get all debuff through their abilities (Def Down with Cutter Missile, Speed Down with Landmine, Power Down with Ghost Road and Mind Down with Demon Breath)
The team also get all buff (Speed Up with Rogue, Def Up with Evil Shaman and Power Up and Mind Up with Warrior Monk).
Anti-Magic with Evil Shaman. Reduce Max HP option with Rogue and Evil Shaman. Heal Light with Warrior Monk, Tinkle Rain with Evil Shaman.
Rogue also get MT Sleep Flower and Body Change which seems good for Crowd Control, also seems that by increasing his Luck, PIE and INT he could be a powerfull pseudo-mage (especially with his final weapon) boosting his Luck could also makes him valuable with weapon that inflict Statut Effect.
This team seems promising the only thing it misses are Saber spells, having only Leaf Saber (which admitadly is a good one tough).

What do you think ?

I think the combo are cool.

If you use buff/debuff-invert armor then Carlie/Rogue will cover all buff the same way they cover all debuff. And you're practically immune to all debuff cuz enemies will not bother to "buff" you up, and the only thing they can do is anti-magic you and status effect. His Leaf Saber is neat got for both himself to heal/debuff/buff, and for Carlie to cast her spell.

Evil Shaman also has weapon that reduces stat, so it make screen clearing faster.

Rogue is a self-sustained physical caster, so he never worries about MP, which is niche.

For Warrior Monk, it is a nice choice cuz Light-path Kevin accesses to Heal Light at lv18, which will replace Carlie dark-path's lack of healing. So your run will 100% fully-heal from the get-go. Warrior Monk also has strong Heal thanks to final weapon and several items that boost heal.

Both light-path of Kevin/Rogue are accessed to multi-target Tech lv2, so they will clear screen pretty fast. By the time they reach 2nd class change, Carlie will be the main screen-wiper, while Hawkeye just nuke the heck out of whatever stay alive. Kevin has only one job: get into the fray to attract their attention, hold X and run in circle until other two finishes casting. Or go with tech-up weapon and spam tech lv2/lv3.

Edited by tkh1208
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4 minutes ago, tkh1208 said:

If you use buff/debuff-invert armor then Carlie/Rogue will cover all buff the same way they cover all debuff. And you're practically immune to all debuff cuz enemies will not bother to "buff" you up, and the only thing they can do is anti-magic you and status effect. His Leaf Saber is neat got for both himself to heal/debuff/buff, and for Carlie to cast her spell.

AH I think you misunderstood the armor in question invert buff and debuff effect from spell cast by the one who wear the armor, for instance if I wear this armor with Carlie and cast Demon Breath instead of reducing Magic and Magic Defense it will increase it (but still do damage tough), but if let say Kevin cast Mind Up on Carlie she will get the Mind Up buff like normal, therefore in this configuration it's not recommended cause all the spell from Rogue and Evil Shaman that inflict debuff also deal damage so you effectivly hit yourself just to get a buff not viable in my opinion (also it would be a total waste on Rogue because his Speed Up is self only meaning he can't cast it at the ennemy (he can make it MT with Whitelight Ring tough) so you would get a speed down that you can only cast at your team also Rogue's debuff spell are single target only until you get his final weapon that make Land Mine MT).

Quote

 

Evil Shaman also has weapon that reduces stat, so it make screen clearing faster.

Rogue is a self-sustained physical caster, so he never worries about MP, which is niche.

For Warrior Monk, it is a nice choice cuz Light-path Kevin accesses to Heal Light at lv18, which will replace Carlie dark-path's lack of healing. So your run will 100% fully-heal from the get-go. Warrior Monk also has strong Heal thanks to final weapon and several items that boost heal.

 

Yeah that Evil Shaman's final weapon looks really nice, I wonder however does the effect of this weapon stack with the Debuffs or is it like the ennemies spawn with all debuff already apply, also does it affect bosses (I assume not for the later and if both are true then that would be really OP XD).

I don't think anyone will have trouble with MP in this set save for some fights thanks to Kevin's Leaf Saber, Rogue damage depending on Luck with his final weapon giving a chance to deal double damage depending on Luck with his spell (so basically crit with spell) seems interesting this way I will have to focus on Luck and PIE (to reduce cast time) and maybe INT, also Sleep Flower and Body Change for the mobs seems to be quite a lot of mobs susceptible to these.

For Kevin the Final Weapon seems nice but I think I'm gonna stick with his weapons that makes his attack dependent of PIE instead of STR, this way I can completly ignore his STR and focus on his VIT (boost wolf form), INT (reduce cast time) and PIE (increase Heal Light) this way Kevin can be both a good Healer while still dishing respectable damage, and also get more resistant to tank easier.

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Nesouk said:

AH I think you misunderstood the armor in question invert buff and debuff effect from spell cast by the one who wear the armor, for instance if I wear this armor with Carlie and cast Demon Breath instead of reducing Magic and Magic Defense it will increase it (but still do damage tough), but if let say Kevin cast Mind Up on Carlie she will get the Mind Up buff like normal, therefore in this configuration it's not recommended cause all the spell from Rogue and Evil Shaman that inflict debuff also deal damage so you effectivly hit yourself just to get a buff not viable in my opinion (also it would be a total waste on Rogue because his Speed Up is self only meaning he can't cast it at the ennemy (he can make it MT with Whitelight Ring tough) so you would get a speed down that you can only cast at your team also Rogue's debuff spell are single target only until you get his final weapon that make Land Mine MT).

Ah I see. I thought it made the debuff/buff you receive to be reverse, instead of it is the caster who cast inverted buff/debuff.

With this knowledge on Invert Armor, I think of a team with:

Reisz, Hawkeye, a healer

  1. Riesz:
    +Dragon Master using Invert Armor: instead of debuff, she just buff the party, while maintaining super Anti-Magic that spread weakness (if any) to all elements. She also has a very useful summon. I assume her Lunatic can do HP boost with invert armor too.
  2. Hawkeye:
    +Rogue: self-sustained caster who never worries about MP and can deal defense/m.defense/speed debuff. He can also multi-target casting, but it requires his final weapon, which means lv60+. Thanks to Dragon Master, he never worries about resistance and just nuke the heck out of the boss.
    +Ninja Master: good replacement for Dragon Master who dons in Invert Armor. Or he can be the one who wears invert Armor and cast debuff, but not recommended cuz he will also damage your party. His final weapon is cool to tag along with Dragon Master's spread-weakness anti-magic, forcing enemy into counter-able state to eat even more damage, and the weapon itself has the highest counter damage. Also has exclusive debuff on critical resistance. For normal encounter, he can just throw cast mind-down Jutsu and let enemy play with Poisonous Dragon from Riesz, and throw some Shurikens if necessary.
    +Nightblade: he is fine during boss fight cuz he can still debuff. A shame that Whitelight ring doesn't help his jutsus to be multi-target, but can still clear screen with Black Rain. Have deadly weapon for HP reduction which will replace Dragon Master's Lunatic who wears Invert Armor. He has a final weapon that forces him to be below 300HP to deal more tech damage, which sounds dangerous. Unless I misunderstand how the weapon works.
  3. A healer:
    +Bishop: multi-target saber buffer. Thanks to Dragon Master, it is not matter which Saber she needs to buff. Can kill undead and hit as hard as a fighter beyond lv60+ thanks to PIE-based final weapon.
    +Sage: Have Leaf Saber which means the party will never run out of MP to cast something. Can also nuke the screen with either Saint Beam or Dark Force. Have a passive-HP-regen weapon for party that can heal up to 12 per second, which is helpful when the game starts to queue screen-freeze attacks and takes ,ore time than usual for everything to cast.
    +Paladin: have Saint Saber to pair with Dragon Master's weakness spread. Can nuke the screen with either his tech or his final weapon with Turn Undead, and instant kill Undead.
    +Lord: have no Saber, but can help inverted Dragon Master to cast two party-wide buff Speed Up and Defense Up. Have Energy Ball. Have stronger tech lv3 (cuz single target) and tech-damage up for Final weapon, making him good for boss fighting.
    +Godhand: need Whitelight Ring to heal party. Have Moon Saber for more party self-sustained. Can cast Mind Down, which pair wells with Rogue to reduce magic damage
    +Warrior Monk: Have helpful Leaf Saber, and is the best healer-fighter class thanks to his weapon that boosts Heal Light. Can cast Power Down if pair with Rogue to reduce physical damage.
    +Grand Divina: late-game buffer/healer, so it means you gonna go through 38 level relying completely on item healing. Gonna need Whitelight Ring. Can multi-cast Saber of all six elements on your own party via damaging spells to take advantage on Dragon Master's anti-magic, though it will hurt a bit. Having Double Spell being non-elemental means she is good at screen-clearing without caring about weakness, but a bit weaker at boss fighting.

 

Edited by tkh1208
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37 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

Yeah that Evil Shaman's final weapon looks really nice, I wonder however does the effect of this weapon stack with the Debuffs or is it like the ennemies spawn with all debuff already apply, also does it affect bosses (I assume not for the later and if both are true then that would be really OP XD).

It is a separate effect from the regular debuffs, so yes they stack.

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2 hours ago, tkh1208 said:

Ah I see. I thought it made the debuff/buff you receive to be reverse, instead of it is the caster who cast inverted buff/debuff.

With this knowledge on Invert Armor, I think of a team with:

Reisz, Hawkeye, a healer....

I  also think one other character that can truly beneficiate from Invert Armor is Kevin with both God Hand and Dervish, as a Dervish he has Def Down and Speed Down give him that armor then he get Def Up and Speed Up, Def Up being probably the most important buff of the game add to that that none of his other ability are affected by Invert Armor so he can still be a hard to kill powerhouse (while having both Moon and Leaf Saber) so basically this gives Dervish much more utility. As for God Hand the Invert armor allows him to get Power Down and Mind Up, Mind Up being the second most important Buff and Power Down being the most important Debuff (as oppose to Power Up which while nice isn't as necessary) furthermore Counter Magic with Invert armor would still allow him to reduce Magical Defense and Life Booster would allow him to reduce ennemy's max HP.

2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

It is a separate effect from the regular debuffs, so yes they stack.

OH My this sounds ridiculously good, does it works on bosses ?

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2 hours ago, Nesouk said:

OH My this sounds ridiculously good, does it works on bosses ?

yes it does
this is a flat -2 to their character stats so it loses a bit steam later on when they reach 30+

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Yeah but there is still the HP max reduction of 12.5%, which I guess like the other stack with Lunatic (which a 25% HP reduction I assume) meaning if I understand correctly you can take off a third of a boss Max HP just like that, this considerably reduce the time spend on bosses (especially Final Boss like Archdemon has over 32k IIRC so that would put him at around 21k for instance don't know about Dragon Emperor and Dark Lich tough).

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Posted (edited)

Party Combo: Paladin, Warrior Monk and Dragon Master

Pro:
-An all-fighter party that does not shy from anything.
-Duran will instant kill any Undead, while Riesz will poison the rest. In late-game, Duran will also become a nuker with Turn Undead dealing non elemental damage, along with his full-screen tech.
-Kevin will heal even better with his final weapon.
-Kevin and Riesz will deal better damage on single-target thanks to their tech, thus better boss DPS.
-Have two AoE healer by default, and are accessed early in the game (lv18+). By focusing on better healing, both Duran and Kevin can use PIE-based weapon for greater attack, and they are very tough against magical attack.
-Riesz, meanwhile, can go VIT and PIE to become tankish. After 2nd class change into Dragon Master, she will also hit stronger with summon thanks to higher PIE. Her summon also cause poison.
-Have Leaf Saber, which I consider important in long boss fight. Since the party are all fighter, they will quickly regain MP through hitting. Thanks to Dragon Master's super anti-magic, Leaf Saber will hit pretty hard, especially on Dryad Day.
-Cover important buff (Mind Up, Defense Up*, Power Up*, Magical Shield for better healing, if stack with Mind Up), and all debuff (Lunatic, all stat-down). These buff are all spread out across party, so you will not need to worry about MP burden on single caster, and you can finish casting many buffs for bosses with long entrance.

Cons:
-All of them are physical hitters. Those pesky physical resistant monsters are gonna be a pain if your Riesz runs out of MP.
-Kevin being a single-target tech user for lifetime. Riesz too for her level 3 tech.
-Duran needs to access to his final weapon to nuke, thus lv60. Otherwise, your party will go brawling for most of the time, unless you meet some unlucky undead.
-Since you go all PIE, you get stuck with PIE-based weapon for Duran and Kevin for pretty long, thus not being able to use Duran's AoE tech at fullest (unless you go STR and use tech-boost equipment, but it will become a pain to rise PIE/INT for his Turn Undead later). And Riesz don't have a PIE-based weapon (either LUCK or INT).

Edited by tkh1208
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INT weapon is actually suprisingly good for Riesz, since INT reduce her castime, which is quite valuable for a support character like Riesz, it is therefore interesting to raise it for her, INT weapon allow you to don't give a damn about STR and focusing on her INT and PIE for faster and stronger cast while still contributing for physical damage with her regular attack, definitly worth it while you are waiting for her final weapon.

Alternatively you could go with Carlie's Sage instead of Warrior Monk, gave up on Power Up but Sage also has Leaf Saber and Mind Up, it also bring the 4 main sabers (with Paladin this give you a total of 6 out of 8 sabers, worth it for the time you are waiting Dragon Master's Final weapon), powerfull nuke with Saint Beam (which can be boost by Paladin's Saint Saber) and Dark Force, Tinkle Rain and the passive healing from her final weapon.

On that subject how does Paladin's Turn Undead perform in comparaison to let say Angela's Ancient/Double Spell or Lise's Summons ?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

INT weapon is actually suprisingly good for Riesz, since INT reduce her castime, which is quite valuable for a support character like Riesz, it is therefore interesting to raise it for her, INT weapon allow you to don't give a damn about STR and focusing on her INT and PIE for faster and stronger cast while still contributing for physical damage with her regular attack, definitly worth it while you are waiting for her final weapon.

Alternatively you could go with Carlie's Sage instead of Warrior Monk, gave up on Power Up but Sage also has Leaf Saber and Mind Up, it also bring the 4 main sabers (with Paladin this give you a total of 6 out of 8 sabers, worth it for the time you are waiting Dragon Master's Final weapon), powerfull nuke with Saint Beam (which can be boost by Paladin's Saint Saber) and Dark Force, Tinkle Rain and the passive healing from her final weapon.

On that subject how does Paladin's Turn Undead perform in comparaison to let say Angela's Ancient/Double Spell or Lise's Summons ?

Yeah, Sage sounds like a good idea.

Paladin'S Turn Undead depends on PIE/INT/Level, so the higher your level the stronger.

Edit:

I think that Necromancer is actually cooler than I thought:
-Black Curse with Invert Armor = full buff on single target. Maybe a bit MP hog, but as long as you stock up enough Walnuts. Also, if a boss anti-magic, or a character die, you won't need to waste time casting back the buff on the unlucky.
-Cover all elements except Moon and Leaf with her single-target summon. Can still clear screen with Black Rain (which is boosted by AGI, unless it works not like Hawkeye's Black Rain). Cannot go wrong with Dragon Master.
--Can make use of AGI/VIT-based weapons. Both are good: AGI makes Charlotte casts faster and more evasive, while VIT makes her tougher physically.

So, a party combo will full-buff Necromancer is:
-Necromancer with Invert Armor. Your friendly single-target nuker with some Light/Dark AoE.
-A debuffer: Dragon Master vs Ninja Master/Rogue. I prefer Dragon Master cuz Anti-Magic, Lunatic and poison Summon that kill monster for breakfast, though Ninja Master can be as relevant in normal encounter with multi-target Jutsu. Nightblade is not a bad choice either for screen clearing with Black Rain, silence magic/tech monsters, and debuff boss. Rogue is simply a self-sustainable nuker/debuffer who never worry about MP, but lacks of Power Down.
-A class with heal: If you go with Light-path Duran/Kevin, you don't need to worry about healing. If not, you go with Grand Divina, who can give multi-saber buff for like 4 MP with final weapon, and care less about elemental weakness with Double Spell, but this is at lv38+ so be prepared to be item-reliant. Personally, I think Paladin is a good healer and undead-killer, while Warrior Monk  has Leaf Saber and Power Down, which pair wells with Rogue.

Edited by tkh1208
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Hmm the idea cross my mind but in the end I'm not convince Necromancer would be a good for buffing, Black Curse cost a lot of MP and I assume has a longer cast time than the normal buff so not only it cost a lot of MP but I think regular buff spell would be faster to set on everyone (if Black Curse could get the sudden modifier tough that would be a different story sadly it doesn't), I think Necromance is still badass tough, Elemental sniping is definitly a thing, Black Rain looks like a very good screen cleaner and Necromancer have the Dark Saber to boost it also she get Half Vanish which is really promising against High HP monster (this fucking Knights) and bosses (despite the 320/400 cap).

Also since we cover a lot of what Dragon Master can do, has anybody try Fenrir Knight ? Lamia Naga inflicting Sleep seems cool, obviously having all MT Debuff is a thing, and Moon Saber for self sustain and his Final Weapon look ridiculously good if you pair her with a caster, altough I'm not sure how do you perform counter attack I never notice any noticeable increase damage even when hitting the ennemy after right after their spell, tough Ninja Master's final weapon could allow him to trigger it by hitting weaknesses with his Jutsu (that limit Fire, Air, Water and Eath weak ennemies tough (also physical if Shuriken counts)).

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30 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

Hmm the idea cross my mind but in the end I'm not convince Necromancer would be a good for buffing, Black Curse cost a lot of MP and I assume has a longer cast time than the normal buff so not only it cost a lot of MP but I think regular buff spell would be faster to set on everyone (if Black Curse could get the sudden modifier tough that would be a different story sadly it doesn't), I think Necromance is still badass tough, Elemental sniping is definitly a thing, Black Rain looks like a very good screen cleaner and Necromancer have the Dark Saber to boost it also she get Half Vanish which is really promising against High HP monster (this fucking Knights) and bosses (despite the 320/400 cap).

Also since we cover a lot of what Dragon Master can do, has anybody try Fenrir Knight ? Lamia Naga inflicting Sleep seems cool, obviously having all MT Debuff is a thing, and Moon Saber for self sustain and his Final Weapon look ridiculously good if you pair her with a caster, altough I'm not sure how do you perform counter attack I never notice any noticeable increase damage even when hitting the ennemy after right after their spell, tough Ninja Master's final weapon could allow him to trigger it by hitting weaknesses with his Jutsu (that limit Fire, Air, Water and Eath weak ennemies tough (also physical if Shuriken counts)).

Yeah, Black Curse costs a lot and it will require Walnut.  Also, you will want AGI weapon and Leaf Saber/ring, so that you can recover MP quickly for another cast if you take control on Carlie. Or you can equip Rune Earring which makes you cast from x5 HP amount, consuming 75 HP/cast, and wear cast-time reduction helmet to balance the longer cast time. Cast from HP also means that you are free from MP worries and have more choice to heal up with items than just Walnut, like a single chocolate will give you enough HP for 4 Black Curse.

Fenrir Knight can be a good healing class if you are good at doing counter-attack with Lv1 Tech during their casting stance or after their attack, giving party more leeway with MP. Summon gives sleep mean you can damage and crowd-control at the same time, let you leisurely pick monster one by one. Also benefit from Invert Armor as all stat-buff.

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Posted (edited)

This discussion about invert armor came up at a convenient time. I'm currently planning a party around Dragon Master with Angela and Carlie to take advantage of the empowered Anti-Magic, and I was thinking to use the invert armor to cover my spread of necessary buffs and debuffs. Strangely, I think a good Angela class here would be Archmage. Her final weapon gives her 200% on weaknesses, which with Dragon Master should almost always apply, and she provides both Mind Down and Power Down. With Dragon Master inverted, that should cover the whole spread of necessary buffs and debuffs for a magic team, leaving Carlie the option to go with the mighty Sage, a class that not only also takes good advantage of empowered Anti-Magic, but brings healing, sabers, and a bunch of support skills that work well for a magic team.

Edited by rpschamp
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Yeah the combo of Saber + Archmage 200% weakness + Empower Anti-Magic + Mind Up and Down might make Arch Mage the ultimate random cleaner in this configuration.

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On 7/6/2019 at 1:31 AM, Nesouk said:

Hawk as Rogue - Carlie as Evil Shaman - Kevin as Warrior Monk

Rogue and Evil Shaman get all debuff through their abilities (Def Down with Cutter Missile, Speed Down with Landmine, Power Down with Ghost Road and Mind Down with Demon Breath)
The team also get all buff (Speed Up with Rogue, Def Up with Evil Shaman and Power Up and Mind Up with Warrior Monk).
Anti-Magic with Evil Shaman. Reduce Max HP option with Rogue and Evil Shaman. Heal Light with Warrior Monk, Tinkle Rain with Evil Shaman.
Rogue also get MT Sleep Flower and Body Change which seems good for Crowd Control, also seems that by increasing his Luck, PIE and INT he could be a powerfull pseudo-mage (especially with his final weapon) boosting his Luck could also makes him valuable with weapon that inflict Statut Effect.
This team seems promising the only thing it misses are Saber spells, having only Leaf Saber (which admitadly is a good one tough).

What do you think ?

I've been thinking about doing a light Hawk playthrough at some point and this sounds like a neat team to try it out with :D I always forget that Cutter Missile and Landmine have built-in debuffs. Makes Rogue even more appealing.

Although what I was currently thinking of for said party before your post was: Wanderer, Bishop, Fenrir Knight. Attacker party with elemental sabers, saint saber, moon saber, two Transshape casters, all debuffs, Def Up, and all of Wanderer's nifty tricks up his sleeve. It's too bad Wanderer no longer has Counter Magic, but he does have Mind Up...does Magic Shield stack with that? I forget. Also not having a FST to take advantage of aura wave kind of sucks, but MT Sleep Flower + Holy Ball and whacking things to death should be "fine" for crowds.

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33 minutes ago, Barnacle_Ed said:

It's too bad Wanderer no longer has Counter Magic, but he does have Mind Up...does Magic Shield stack with that? I forget. Also not having a FST to take advantage of aura wave kind of sucks, but MT Sleep Flower + Holy Ball and whacking things to death should be "fine" for crowds.

Magic Shield increases heal effect.

Also, not having FST means that you can exploit Sleep Flower to fullest potential for screen-clearing by killing one-by-one. Single-target tech also hits harder, and you won't get annoyed by Warrior Monk's throw cuz it is single-target anyway. Evil Shaman also has Single-target summon to nuke them down, and AoE to clear trash if necessary.

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3 hours ago, Barnacle_Ed said:

I've been thinking about doing a light Hawk playthrough at some point and this sounds like a neat team to try it out with :D I always forget that Cutter Missile and Landmine have built-in debuffs. Makes Rogue even more appealing.

Although what I was currently thinking of for said party before your post was: Wanderer, Bishop, Fenrir Knight. Attacker party with elemental sabers, saint saber, moon saber, two Transshape casters, all debuffs, Def Up, and all of Wanderer's nifty tricks up his sleeve. It's too bad Wanderer no longer has Counter Magic, but he does have Mind Up...does Magic Shield stack with that? I forget. Also not having a FST to take advantage of aura wave kind of sucks, but MT Sleep Flower + Holy Ball and whacking things to death should be "fine" for crowds.

Mind Up and Magic Shield stack for Heal Light yes combine with Protect Earrings and the Weapon that increase Heal Light and you can reach some crazy level of healing with Heal Light (My Carlie was healing around 700 with MT Heal Light with that set up).

Must admit that Wanderer doesn't appeal to me most of his ability seems to situationnal, altough Half Vanish with his Final Weapon look crazy strong and he is one of the only 2 classes (other being Magus) that learn Poison Bubble the offensive Leaf Elemental spell.

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24 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

Must admit that Wanderer doesn't appeal to me most of his ability seems to situationnal, altough Half Vanish with his Final Weapon look crazy strong and he is one of the only 2 classes (other being Magus) that learn Poison Bubble the offensive Leaf Elemental spell.

I unfortunately have to agree that most of the Wanderer abilities are pretty low impact, especially since dark Lise can also bring anti magic in this party. The boosted half vanish is cool, but AFAIK still won't work on bosses and is only ST...

I was thinking of giving him a weapon that scales with spirit so he can do a decent autoattack after throwing out all his buffs; energy ball and sabres should help him do decent damage to a def-downed anti magic'ed boss after opening with Lunatic. Should.

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Well Half Vanish works on bosses, so it could be interesting for bosses that has a lot of HP (looking at you final bosses), also since it ignore Defense and the damage is constant regardless of buffs and debuff or element resistance it can be good against bosses that are very resistant (looking at you Dolan you fucker) also very good against some mobs that have a lot of HP, very high resistant to pretty much everything yet can still demolish you rather easily (this goddamn Knights and also Golems). Downside is it capped at 400 on Luna's Day which means it will cap once the bosses get more than 12800HP or 800HP for the mobs. Well PIE weapon seems interesting since you need his PIE to get his spell and to reduce castime anyway.
Also in this set up maybe give a shield to Lise so that she can grow aggro, then keep transshape on her could be an interesting strat for mobs and bosses that rely a lot on physical like Bigieu for instance.

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Wait, Half Vanish does work on bosses? I've always heard that it does not but Lunatic works instead. That's how I remember it anyways...

 

Lise with a shield seems perfect for that setup. Good idea.

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31 minutes ago, Barnacle_Ed said:

Wait, Half Vanish does work on bosses? I've always heard that it does not but Lunatic works instead. That's how I remember it anyways...

that's the way it was in vanilla.
here it does work on bosses but at reduced power

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Posted (edited)

8 hours ago, Barnacle_Ed said:

Wait, Half Vanish does work on bosses? I've always heard that it does not but Lunatic works instead. That's how I remember it anyways...

It works on bosses in this mod except instead of 1 half of HP it does 1/32 of HP on bosses (Max HP with Wanderer's final weapon), it was quite broken in fact before Praetarius nerfed it to 320 max damage (400 during Luna's day) on Final Bosses with Hawk you were looking at 999 damage guaranteed regardless of buff/debuff per cast xD (for comparison Carlie as Bishop with 32 PIE, Mind Up, Mind Down and Saint Saber was dealing 263 with Holy ball to Archdemon on my playthrough).

Edited by Nesouk
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