Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

137 posts in this topic

58 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

altough Korren being able randomly cast MT Deathspell is bullshit, but sadly base on what Praetarius said nothing can be done about it

it has to come from somewhere but I looked for several hours and didn't find it - at which point I declared it not worth the search: there's accessoires to defend against it


for the routes I tried to stick with the general consensus on the difficulty level in vanilla;

Spoiler

 

Dark Lich is supposed to be the easier route, he sort of ended as a quick review of godbeast gimmicks
Deathjester is less dangerous and more annoying
Heath... is a non issue if you introduce him to a corner, if not - sometimes the AI goes nuts on the energy ball spam (his range attack, not the buff)

Dragon Emperor is the middle route, hits hard and puts some pressure on with the debuffing
Dark Shine Knight and Koren aren't too special, mostly making really sure the player has his basics down

Archdemon should've been hard route, several special moves that are basically cheats compared to what the game engine normally allows.
Jagan is basically the only fair fight in the entire game - 3v3 with no way to reduce numbers one by one prematurely; you have grails they have their gimmick.
Bigieu can kill whole parties in one attack when she feels like it and you stay grouped up.

 

as for which enemies are present - that is mostly a wash since enemies can get randomly replaced with different enemy types from a certain pool and the endgame pools are relatively similar. and which enemy types are the most dangerous can actually vary by team setup.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Thanks for the quest info; it's more or less what I assumed. Also, on second thought, I think I'm going to be lame and go with light Lise as my third teammate. I was hoping to replace her with Kevin or Carlie for some variety, but MT Mind and Power Up may be just too useful to go without. Maybe when I'm feeling braver.

So, we have:

Rogue, Vanadis, Archmage: Great final weapons on Rogue and Archmage, but with no sabers, Vanadis's final weapon would be wasted on this team.

Rogue, Vanadis, Grand Divina: Either eye farming with the Rogue or scales and invert armor on the Grand Divina to make up the Mind and Power Down. Apart from this, the sabers make this team much more fun. Grand Divina would generally not be as powerful as Archmage after reaching the final weapons, but perhaps more useful all around. With two healers, Grand Divina can pick up some of the MP burden to leave room for Vanadis's summon.

Rogue, Star Lancer, Grand Divina: Aura Wave, Energy Ball, and Marduke would all be useful for this team. More physical than the previous; Star Lancer would be more geared for tech damage with Aura Wave and her ST Level 3 tech than Vanadis with her summon. She would also not be dependent on Whitelight Ring which unburdens her for other roles. A simpler, cleaner team than the previous, but with one healer, perhaps not as adaptable. I honestly don't think I can lose with any of these three, but I'm leaning towards Grand Divina to take advantage of the sabers.

Edited by rpschamp
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Power Up is nice to have but honnestly not mandatory, really Def Up and Mind Up are the 2 big ones and I say Speed Up is better to have than Power Up as an all, in my manpower playthrough I don't have Power Up but physical damage are still good enough.

The main issue with Lise and Angela is only 1 of their classes learn Heal Light, it's annoying since this basically mean you are limited to Rogue + Vanadis or Rogue + Grand Divina one good thing with Gran Divina and Lise you can use Transshape on Lise with a shield which should Protect her in mob fights since mobs tend to generally use more Physical attacks.

You could also go Rogue, Vanadis and Rune Master make for the lack of Power Down and Mind Down with Invert Scales or Eyes and profit from Rune Master's LV3 spells and their statut effects, you lose Saint and Dark Sabers tough but still get 4 Sabers for strengthen Freya, Rogue's spells and Angela's own spells

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I actually meant Protect Up instead of Power Up, thanks for catching that. The buffs that keep you alive. Because you can't benefit from your Power Up if Dolan is knocking you flat on your ass. I was also thinking of that Transshape shield combo; I didn't get to use it last time I played Grand Divina because the update wasn't out for Lise yet.

Rune Master might be an interesting choice. Marduke is slightly more useful than her Level 3 Air spell, but Snowman should be a definite upgrade from Sleep Flower, and Petrify would be great for werewolves and other annoying mobs. My Holy and Dark damage would be limited to my Rogue though.... It's a tough call. Maybe I'll branch off at my first class change and try both!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

On 26/08/2019 at 11:01 PM, LittleBigTrouble said:

nah just magatama is enough, no need to boost his magic damage, it inflicts a debuff that makes normal fights pretty easy (reflects 100% of the damage they do)

Just to clarify about my response from earlier, I realise I completly miss the point of that Curse Upgrade I didn't understand that "Additionnaly damage is always shared with 100%." in the description, so it does give you a Reflect 100% to the physical damage they do, Holy Shit this is awesome this basically completly negate the need of Thorn Armors, goddamn and I checked and all of Angela's classes except the Rune Master has access to that as well as Carlie's Sage and Necromancer and Rogue to (altough ST only for Rogue).

Edited by Nesouk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Another reason I tend to prefer light Angela over dark; she gets access to Curse as soon as you get the Pihyara Flute, which can make the section of the game between your first and second class change a good deal easier if you are still waiting to learn Heal Light :-)

Edited by rpschamp
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

7 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Another reason I tend to prefer light Angela over dark; she gets access to Curse as soon as you get the Pihyara Flute, which can make the section of the game between your first and second class change a good deal easier if you are still waiting to learn Heal Light :-)

To be honnest just the fact that she had all Element available already make this part of the game easier with the Sorceress, like the fact that Sorceress is the only middle class to get an MT Dark Spell make the bucca Island cave section a complete joke (as outside of Slime and Necromancer everything in this cave is weak to Dark), now that I know about the curse upgrade I'm even more convince that Sorceress is the best middle class in the game purely and simply ^^.

But learning about that Curse upgrade make me hype for Necromancer who might be even more badass than I thought.

8 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Marduke is slightly more useful than her Level 3 Air spell.

Wouldn't the LV3 Air spell with Rune Master's ultimate weapons and Ancient Coat to bypass resistances be basically a more powerfull version of Marduke ?
On a side note beat Jagan with the man power team, definitly using the spike armor on Duran with shield is a good move, the mobs are immortal but they still get knockback from the repel damage which give some momentum, this fight is rough because on Ancient 2 to be honnest the rest of it is manageable.

So far the hardest boss with this team was definitly Xian Bhe, cause he goes completly against that team possibilities, the furnace has an extremely high physical defense, and so Hawk spell and Kevin can't do anything about it, the only thing this team has that does good damage against it is Paladin's Turn Undead, but obviously spamming it would take to much time so I had to use all the Ice Coin and Undine Statue I had to make Paladin's job easier. The second problem is Xian Bhe has 2 moves that has a Mind Down effect (Fire Jutsu and Gigaburn), so this team not having Mind Up has trouble keep up with it, also Duran is stuck with Byzel armor as he would be weak to Xian Bhe attacks without it.

I also thought would have trouble with Zable Farh, due to not having MT Debuff and only Turn Undead against the right head, but it did go well, Turn Undead for the right head at the beginning, has to use some Walnut so that Hawk can set the debuffs fast (mainly Fire and Thunder Jutsu) but Death Hand with Paladin's Saint Saber is quite effective for damage.

Edited by Nesouk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Ahh Bucca Island Cave.... My favorite spot to farm ??? seeds! Papa Poto rare drops are 50% ??? seeds and 25% Poto Oils. Spend a couple hours farming at the second gold statue, get your class change items and sell the rest for 1000 each, then head right over to Sultan's Secret Shop to purchase few choice accessories. Light Angela makes this a breeze, and the jazzy cave music keeps things upbeat.

Speaking of farming, I'm planning to take full advantage of my Luck stat with my Rogue playthrough. Moon Coins for every major boss, including Full Metal Hugger (the drop in boss difficulty will make it easier for me to pump all my stat points into Luck). ??? seeds at Bucca Island until I have enough for Dragon Rings and Magatama. W/A seeds at Moonreading Tower right after the third Godbeast. Battum's Eyes, Slime's Eyes, Specter's Eyes, Shadowzero's Eyes; all the eyes.

Also, I'm glad that Manpower is working out. It seems to be kind of the mirror image of my Femmes Fatales; surprisingly strong in most situations but annoyingly difficult in a few. I haven't completed the final area with mine yet as I got kind of bored of them, but I look forward to hearing how Archdemon goes with your group. With this next group I'm looking for more variety and I'm excited to have Hawk at the helm again.

Edited by rpschamp
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Funny enough since my first playthrough I never grind in this mod (outside of the LVUP for the second class change), which I think is great and show how little grinding mean in this mod, obviously if you are willing to grind much then you can pretty much do anything through Items ^^, Rogue is definitly the most no brainer for Luck base build, the fact that just to unlock his spell you 25 Luck already makes him good for that.

8 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Also, I'm glad that Manpower is working out. It seems to be kind of the mirror image of my Femmes Fatales; surprisingly strong in most situations but annoyingly difficult in a few. I haven't completed the final area with mine yet as I got kind of bored of them, but I look forward to hearing how Archdemon goes with your group. With this next group I'm looking for more variety and I'm excited to have Hawk at the helm again.

Archdemon sure will cause some trouble this time cause of the fact he has very high physical Defense and the only Magic this team has is Turn Undead and almost 32k HP (25k with Lunatic) to go through, yiiish this is gonna be fun ^^.

Also yeah the man power team is proving efficient for most of the game, the good thing is there is multiple way to go with them I took this team cause I really wanted to try Nightblade and Death Hand, but team like Ninja Master, Lord, God Hand or Wanderer, Lord, Warrior Monk or even Nightblade/Ninja Master, Duelist, Warrior Monk could have work.
I'm definitly happy with the result tough this team rock despite of her cons, also disappointed that I can't take full advantage of Death Hand's final weapon with this team, but hey next time I take Death Hand I think I will pair him with Necromancer and probably Vanadis could be a fun team.

Well beat Bigieu with Man Power team, really I don't see how to reasonnably beat her on Hard without Damage Reflection from either the Thorn armors or the Curse Upgrade, even with Attack Down and Def Up she does nearly 700 per hit and she hit twice each or maybe stacking Evasion and set Speed Up on use and Speed Down on her could work but yeah, son only Black Rabite and Archdemon left.

Edited by Nesouk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Call me old-fashioned, but I like a good rare item farming session every now and then. Forced grinding is no good, but a treasure hunt can be fun, as long as it's optional.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Alright game beaten with Team Man Power on Hard, Black Rabite his pretty much like Bigieu Thorn armor or Curse upgrade help immensely and so for Archdemon..... He was way easier than I thought he would, basically the key factor here was the Fireblaze, since he is highly resistant to physical and seems to almost constantly cast I figure using Fireblaze and setting Hawk to LV1 Tech might end up in a lot of Counter think I was right so basically strat is as follow with everyone equip with Byzel's Armor :

First Form :

-First phase since Antimagic 2 is impossible to avoid I just use a specter eye and Thunder Jutsu and Saint Saber on Kevin and just try to do as much damage as I can.
-After Antimagic 2 and Dragon's Eye another Specter's Eye I start casting Heal Light with Paladin and Fire Jutsu with Hawk and Lunatic with Kevin, this way I avoid Tidal Wave's sleep effect.
-It is then a matter of setting the debuff (Fire and Thunder Jutsu especially for the first form), Magic Shield on Duran so that he can Heal as much as he can (also since he is always the target of ST spell due to Shield it's a good to increase his defense).
-If does another Antimagic 2 and Dragon Eye I just use Antimagic with Paladin and Debuff him again.

Second Form :

-Now Water Jutsu is usefull as he has a physical attack, Curse effect is also usefull that's free 600 damage when he does his physical attack (the one when he pull a sword out of the ground).
-Duran set Magic Shield on everyone, Saint Saber on Kevin and Hawk then he is on Heal bot mod, and rebuff with Magic Shield if someone die. Also Duran was the target of almost all his spells due to the shield which makes really easy to keep Kevin and Hawk alive, tough I had to be carefull on Duran due to the sap effect of Demon Scream but if he die I just use an Angel's Grail and cast Magic Shield
-Kevin and Hawk does most of the Damage, Kevin was reaching over 400 damage per LV3 tech and 71 per hit, also sometime Hawk was Pulling off over 100 per hit with his LV1 (I assume this is an accumulation of both Counter and Critical otherwise I don't know why he was pulling such damage) all without Power Up.

So the most dangerous attack is Catastrophe who does around 500 AoE, his Demon Breath mean recasting Magic Shield on everyone tough, as long as Duran keep up and I keep an eye on Duran's HP it's a fairly easy fight with this team. Still think Dragon Emperor is the hardest Final Boss (this team would have never been able to keep up with Dragon Emperor's constant debuff).

So overall for the Nightblade, Paladin, Death Hand, I'm very satisfy with this team it was a blast to play with it, really fun to get more physical with bosses, mobs fight are overall quite easy once we get Black Rain + Magatama and Paladin's final weapon with Kevin LV3 tech in the mix. I also really try my best to avoid Thorn and HP increase armors this time around so more fun time.

EDIT : Upon further testing I don't know if it's a glitch but I realise that the Curse upgrade also completly reflect his jutsus (I mean by that the character take no damage while Archdemon take all the damage), this make the first form considerably easier.

Edited by Nesouk
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 27.8.2019 at 8:32 PM, Nesouk said:

Actually between Archdemon and Dragon Emperor, Dragon Emperor was IMO the hardest route, Dragon Hole is waaay harder than Dark Castle, it is fill with the most annoying ennemies in the game, and my god that last room before Korren where the game goes God of War mode giving you dozens of ennemis to fight with no break is a nightmare on hard.

It would be nice if a save point was added in the room between the marathon battle and Koren. It's just cheap to make the player fight two really tough battles on a row with no chance of saving between them, especially if Koren cheeses you with MT Death Spell.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Serafie1999AD said:

It would be nice if a save point was added in the room between the marathon battle and Koren. It's just cheap to make the player fight two really tough battles on a row with no chance of saving between them, especially if Koren cheeses you with MT Death Spell.

Well save stating after beating that room and before Korren is an option I guess.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

sorry, that exceeds what I can do with SD3

You already changed the order of rooms in Rolante, which switched the location of the save statue. Can't you do the same here?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes I switched rooms but I didn't create new ones - I've nothing that has a save statue and fits into the room progression and interior.
and I can't add further "npcs" to existing rooms

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Has anyone tried using Wanderer, and if so what parties did you use? It's the only class I can't come up with a good party for.

I also tried a Death Hand recently and was kind of disappointed with the results with it. He was paired with a Paladin and a crit build Ninja Master. The Death Hand tech damage with his final weapon wasn't great. Do you have to pair him with a necromancer with Black curse for it to be viable? I ran a Duelist in another party and his damage was much better and the classes guide says both classes get an increase to lv3 techs.

For Dervish with his final weapon how much attack and defense is affected by the berserker wolf form? Is a Dervish more viable than a Death Hand for pure damage? What are some good parties with the Dervish?

Also for the Sword Master's final weapon what's the benefit of this weapon? It says regular damage is 1 and crits and techs do normal damage unless I'm missing something?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having play both Duelist and Death Hand, I can now confirm that the main benefit of Death Hand over Duelist is how fast he build his tech bar, also yeah for me Death Hand's final weapon doesn't seem worth it unless you have Necromancer, otherwise setting all debuff and reapplying them after each LV3 tech is annoying, I honnestly found better to stick with the weapon that fill tech bar 3 time faster, then focus on STR, AGL and VIT with Mistscreen Charm and Aura Wave he can fill his LV3 tech bar in 1 attack, with just Saint Saber and Def Down no Power Up I was reaching over 400 per tech on Archdemon, so definitly better DPS than Duelist.

Wanderer is a tricky class, I honnestly can't of many team where he could truly be usefull, Wanderer, Bishop, Arch Mage or Wanderer, Lord, Warrior Monk might work, but I don't know.

I plan to do a playthrough with Dervish soon, plan to do Dervish, Sage, Arch Mage will see how it goes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also has anyone tried a party based on counter attacks? I assume God Hand, Lord, Ninja Master is the way to go with using fireblaze?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never fully focus on Counter personnaly, your team might work for that or replacing Kevin with Lise would work to, any of Lise's classes could be good with Lord and Ninja Master for me :

-Vanadis would have all buff and Heal Light, making you completly free to build Lord as a fighter.

-Star Lancer bring Aura Wave so that Lord could get access to his LV2/3 tech faster, to proc the counter, all buffs and Marduke is very good for crowd control.

-Dragon Master bring her improved Anti Magic, which would make any oppenent that has a weakness weak to Ninja Master's jutsus, allowing to provoc the counter state very easily.

-Fenrir Knight could take advantage of Lord and Ninja Master ability to provoc counter, by using counter herself to heal the party.

Of course using invert armor to get all buff in the case of Dragon Master and Fenrir Knight.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a few notes on Lise, since I've used both light and dark Lise in recent groups:

- If there's anyone you'd want to wear invert armor, it's Lise: she has the best overall Vitality and Spirit scores of any character, so she can take the most setback in terms of defense; also, she's usually not a focus character for physical or magical damage, so you won't be losing too much on offense either. Still, if you can find a way around it, it's always nicer to keep her armor slot free for other options.

- If you're not using a Rune Master, Star Lancer's Marduke should be a huge benefit to pretty much any party. It's hard to overstate how much more useful this summon is than any of Lise's other options. Heavy tech users and casters all can be disabled by this, and her final weapon brings it out even faster. The only really annoying tech user immune to Silence I can think of are Werewolves, so you'll have to find another strategy for them.

- If you already have another healer, try someone other than Vanadis; having Heal Light on a non-focus character with all the stat buffs makes this class really attractive, but her other classes can give the same buffs with better strategic options. Star Lancer not only gets her most useful summon, Marduke, but also Aura Wave, Energy Ball, and Lise's strongest ST Level 3 tech in the game, great for boosting physical power on any team. Fenrir Knight's counter-heal is just awesome for magical teams; running her with a heavy MP user like Necromancer or any Angela class will save you a lot of time siphoning back MP. I also find that controlling Fenrir Knight as a lead character is nicer than Vanadis, since counterattacks can be performed actively, while casting Heal Light takes significant cast-time through most of the game where you can't control your other characters; plus, if you're using Lise as a shield-bearer, it's usually best to keep her mobile. Dragon Master's enhanced Anti-magic is awesome for boosting elemental damage, so she's great to pair with Archmage who gets bonus weakness damage or other classes who only have access to one or two elements.

- Not that it matters too much, but dark Lise has the best overall stats in the game. It's possible to end the game with stats at 26/26/26/26/26/26 if this kind of thing delights you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honnestly Lise is just the best character in the game, she is by far the most valuable character in the game, really it's pretty hard to screw up any team composition with Lise.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If by best you mean most necessary for an optimized party, I'm with you. She was and always will be the ultimate team player. I just want to encourage people to try classes other than Vanadis; it seems she's the most used, and perhaps overused, class on this mod.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you can bet people would've cried bloody murder if I had taken stuff away from Lise.

also not sure what I could've really done with her;
debuffers usually have the full set of debuff effects and giving her light classes only 2-3 main buffs while the dark classes have the full suit would be weird.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the point is that players want to get the most mileage for their support characters, and she happens to have both Heal Light and all the stat ups, two of the most essential support sets in the game. The way to make her less essential would be to spread out these abilities more to other classes so that more class combinations could give you the full set, or at least the most important ones like Heal Light, Protect Up, Power Down, Mind Up, and Mind Down. It's tough to do this in a balanced way without unbalancing the other classes, though; maybe just giving more of the important buffs or debuffs to other characters would work.

Edited by rpschamp
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0