JohnFuklaw

Some thoughts on Stamina builds

80 posts in this topic

4 hours ago, SuperHario said:

I’m not saying the other C/C options are not better, just trying to make Stam Sabin relatively viable since the verdict now is that he’s not.  And his use comes down to Kefka’s Tower, when you have to use nearly everyone, so the question is where would he best fit.  Other places, of course you can use others, that’s the case now and each player is going to have preferences about who to bring, with Stam Sabin being pretty low in the pecking order.

An alternative option to slightly improve Sabin’s cover capability is to put minor PDef and/or PEvade stats on his claws.  You could argue that the claws are like gauntlets, providing some protection, and he’s more agile with them relative to someone with a broad sword.  This latter point gets me thinking - is it possible to start with high PEvade and weapons reduce it by varying amounts?

As to Stam-based claw counters, this does not really fit thematically (Omega being the exception, of course).  But to make the new blitz more unique, I suppose it could be a Stam-based cover chance of any single target attack, and guaranteed counter with Stam-based damage.  If equipped with Black belt, I think it would only offer a claw counter chance in response to physical attacks, though (I.e., current practice).

But Vig Sabin is strong already. That's the one stam Sabin really has to compete with in terms of powerlevel - and a very awkward counter wouldn't help.
I'd also oppose granting him more basic defence via claws. He has low defence, rather medium dodge.. but very high health. That's fine as it is.

Thematically, I do not see where there is really a disconnect. Stamina already being THE counter stat and all. As mentioned, bonus damage based on Stamina could also be possible. I just want to push claws more into the limelight, really. While they are plenty strong on Vig builds, you'd probably just Rush over them in most scenarios.

Sabin being low in the pecking order in general is fine, but Stam Sabin shouldn't be noticeably less desiraable than Vig Sabin(A very solid dps).

11 hours ago, Shax said:

Cover Sabin really loves Death Ward(or the relevant Gaurd/Wall ring pre-Death Ward) and Regen, but can't have all three at the same time. I'm dubious whether auto safe & shell +regen would even be enough tankyness, but what that really means is I need to play this game again. Oh the humanity! Thankfully Regen is a fairly common spell so many teams will be able to buff him should he need it. Further proof that the father daughter dynamic duo is great for him with both regen and reraise spells each. Now if only he could get all of the above and counter because obviously Sabin needs EVERYTHING.

He is bulky enough to not require the autos. Think Speed is a much more appreciated stat on Stam Sabin especially.

2 hours ago, JohnFuklaw said:

For Hario's idea with the Retort-like Blitz, what if while in the "counter-ready" state, Sabin takes reduced damage based on his Stamina?

Heh, that was my first idea that started this. Stamina based Damage Reduction while covering - this would rather clearly make this a Stam-Sabin only move.


But~ I think we fleshed out the idea a bit. Some kind of skill that allows Sabin to C/C with(maybe) stamina based DR and stamina based counter. I like the idea, as it fits for a monk-style character, is a special kind of C/C and cements stam Sabin more as a support Sabin. Now onto the details:
I'd be in favor of non-physical C/Cing, to give him something very special over any other cover user.
Additionally, duration is a question. As a runic-esque ability, it could work(last until any other action is taken). There is also the possibility to let it last for X C/Cs, or a set amount of turns -  or a combination of both. It could also become inactive once his health drops down to a certain stage.
How the counterattack should work is a small discussion point. Think it should be a stamina based counter - I'd personally like to incorporate claws, as the Vig build under-utilizes them(Except for weakness sniping/doom procs) - either replace vig with stam in the counter formula, or add stam based bonus damage for claws. A simple stam based counter works, too(Would look cool with Wind Slash animation). Another question is how damaging his counters should end up being. They could be the builds best offence and be rather damaging - the unreliable nature allows that. Could have a double-dipping problem(Stamina=Offence&Defence). Could also have a medium damage output, putting the defensive use at the forefront.


Hm, maybe we should create a poll, just to get a better feel for general reception on the idea.

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I don’t think the claws are entirely ignored in a vig build if you use Berserk Sabin.

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In the words of some of the children I've taught, ya'll are trippin' if ya'll think claws ain't used at all. Berserk + Elemental Claws = dead boss. Sabin can even berserk himself, IIRC. Also good for hammering a foe with low p.def. Or just for hitting a specific foe in a crowd instead of hoping Bum Rush does the right thing.

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14 hours ago, thzfunnymzn said:

In the words of some of the children I've taught, ya'll are trippin' if ya'll think claws ain't used at all. Berserk + Elemental Claws = dead boss. Sabin can even berserk himself, IIRC. Also good for hammering a foe with low p.def. Or just for hitting a specific foe in a crowd instead of hoping Bum Rush does the right thing.

Hm, ya might be right. I tend to use claws for elemental sniping primarily and slapped a black belt onto Sabin. Can be useful vs multiple foes, too.
I view them more as a secondary damage tool. A decent tool nonetheless, but secondary. Tying the bulk of Stam Sabin's damage output to counters would make them more of a main damage output. But yeah, beserking vig Sabin is pretty strong - though, weaker than bumrush spam(when not elemental sniping) I'd wager...?

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Pretty sure that, even without an elemental weakness, that berserk claws outdamage Bum Rush. Dunno by exactly how much, probably not by enough to be worthwhile when Bum Rush is all ready a good, untargettable attack. Too lazy to check right now.

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