MuteCitizenMaster

Trial Mode Final Boss (Normal Mode)

23 posts in this topic

Something I wanna talk about this fight...

Spoiler

Is it just me, or Rosalina seems to be way too hard for a "Normal Mode"? I don't know the way you balance this fights, but it does seem that you guys take in count the use of save states. Personally, I try to avoid using those 99% of the time because that feels like cheating (unless is for testing purposes). I know I'm not the best at RPGs either, but there's no way you'll be able to legitimate beat her. My only complain about this fight is that the Lumas come back way too quickly (3 turns). Not only that, but she casts a devastating attack pattern every time she loses a life, which may lead to even 2 dead party members, and that means that you'll have to waste 1 turn on healing (if you're lucky, you won't get one-shoted by Galaxy Beam). By that time, at least 1 Luma may have already be brought back because there's no guaranteed way to defeat all of them at once (unless you're lucky with RNG). And she has 15 lives? Yeah, "secret boss at Yo'ster Isle" is nothing compared to this.

In other words, to balance this fight, the Lumas need to take a bit longer to come back. 5 turns seem fine, but if you think it's too much, 4 should be enough.

That's all I think about this fight. Let me know what you think. If you agree or disagree, I'm still curious about your thoughts.

Edited by Doomsday31415
Spoiler tag because duh
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3 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Something I wanna talk about this fight...

  Hide contents

Is it just me, or Rosalina seems to be way too hard for a "Normal Mode"? I don't know the way you balance this fights, but it does seem that you guys take in count the use of save states. Personally, I try to avoid using those 99% of the time because that feels like cheating (unless is for testing purposes). I know I'm not the best at RPGs either, but there's no way you'll be able to legitimate beat her. My only complain about this fight is that the Lumas come back way too quickly (3 turns). Not only that, but she casts a devastating attack pattern every time she loses a life, which may lead to even 2 dead party members, and that means that you'll have to waste 1 turn on healing (if you're lucky, you won't get one-shoted by Galaxy Beam). By that time, at least 1 Luma may have already be brought back because there's no guaranteed way to defeat all of them at once (unless you're lucky with RNG). And she has 15 lives? Yeah, "secret boss at Yo'ster Isle" is nothing compared to this.

In other words, to balance this fight, the Lumas need to take a bit longer to come back. 5 turns seem fine, but if you think it's too much, 4 should be enough.

That's all I think about this fight. Let me know what you think. If you agree or disagree, I'm still curious about your thoughts.

It was easier at first, then DK buffed her. I shouldn't have said anything about how easy she was to begin with.

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So, let me tell you a little story...

There once was a boy and a girl who played games together.  The boy typically won, but both had a good time and everyone was happy.  Sure, the girl wasn't trying very hard, but the boy didn't know this.  One day, the boy decided to make fun of the girl, calling her "too easy" and questioning whether she was even fun to play with.  This angered the girl, and she went in a frenzy, unleashing her wrath upon the unsuspecting boy.  The boy then ran crying to his mother, who scolded the boy by making him farm 1000 traps and then giving him a spanking that made the boy wish he had never said anything.  The End.

So with story time out of the way, the final boss was actually nerfed after the buff.  She's definitely much more difficult than anything else in Normal mode, but you don't even have to be able to block most of her attacks to win.  If I were to compare, I'd say she's slightly easier than v8 hard's version, but not by much.  You need to really deal damage when she's vulnerable and survive when she's not.  Item management is critical.

Good luck!

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Can Mario no longer deal 30K to all Lumas with Galaxy Blast when specced for Magic? That was how I beat Rosalina, but I was playing on the version that was released before Content and Normal mode were released separately.

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1 minute ago, pinkzeppelincult said:

Can Mario no longer deal 30K to all Lumas with Galaxy Blast when specced for Magic? That was how I beat Rosalina, but I was playing on the version that was released before Content and Normal mode were released separately.

He can, but... :inglip:

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26 minutes ago, pinkzeppelincult said:

Can Mario no longer deal 30K to all Lumas with Galaxy Blast when specced for Magic? That was how I beat Rosalina, but I was playing on the version that was released before Content and Normal mode were released separately.

 

25 minutes ago, Doomsday31415 said:

He can, but... :inglip:

Yeah... I forgot to mention she does THAT now...

Galaxy Blast is done for...

Edited by MuteCitizenMaster
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4 hours ago, Doomsday31415 said:

By the way, have you beaten her yet?

Nope. I even went back to win every battle at Mushroom Kingdom to get armor for everyone. I think I've came up for a strategy to beat her, but I may fall short in items.

With this strategy, I'm only able to take one life of her at a time before the Lumas come back. I could take 2 of them at once, but the only think keeping me from doing so is Black Hole->Galaxy Storm. It KO's 2 party members all the time. I thought about defending, but it seems that she does that attack when taking one life from her.

I could keep up with this strategy, but it seems that I would run out of items to restore my MP and Auto-Life before being able to reach her 11th life.

I'll try defeating "secret boss at Yo'ster Isle" or the FF Boss Rush before trying this fight again. Those two things along with Trial Mode are the only things are still left to do.

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5 hours ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Nope. I even went back to win every battle at Mushroom Kingdom to get armor for everyone. I think I've came up for a strategy to beat her, but I may fall short in items.

With this strategy, I'm only able to take one life of her at a time before the Lumas come back. I could take 2 of them at once, but the only think keeping me from doing so is Black Hole->Galaxy Storm. It KO's 2 party members all the time. I thought about defending, but it seems that she does that attack when taking one life from her.

I could keep up with this strategy, but it seems that I would run out of items to restore my MP and Auto-Life before being able to reach her 11th life.

I'll try defeating "secret boss at Yo'ster Isle" or the FF Boss Rush before trying this fight again. Those two things along with Trial Mode are the only things are still left to do.

You won't get the full reward from Yo'ster Isle unless you've beaten Trial Mode and the FF Boss Rush.

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7 hours ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

With this strategy, I'm only able to take one life of her at a time before the Lumas come back. I could take 2 of them at once, but the only think keeping me from doing so is Black Hole->Galaxy Storm. It KO's 2 party members all the time. I thought about defending, but it seems that she does that attack when taking one life from her.

I could keep up with this strategy, but it seems that I would run out of items to restore my MP and Auto-Life before being able to reach her 11th life.

FYI, this strategy cannot work.  Every time Galaxy Storm is used, it restores one of her lives.

Conversely, she won't use it until she's lost at least one life, but that's not the main mechanism for her using it.

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3 hours ago, Doomsday31415 said:

FYI, this strategy cannot work.  Every time Galaxy Storm is used, it restores one of her lives.

Conversely, she won't use it until she's lost at least one life, but that's not the main mechanism for her using it.

Oh boy, you weren't kidding when you said you buffed her, huh?

I now have the Paladin armor and I'll go defeat "her" to get that wonderful piece of equipment. This should be enough to beat Trial Mode.

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12 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Oh boy, you weren't kidding when you said you buffed her, huh?

I now have the Paladin armor and I'll go defeat "her" to get that wonderful piece of equipment. This should be enough to beat Trial Mode.

You won't get the OP accessory until you've beaten both Trial Mode and the FF Boss Rush.

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I don't know. At this point, it seems that I may have more chances with this than beating trial mode. Since it's all timing based, that already makes it easier.

Edited by MuteCitizenMaster
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9 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

I don't know. At this point, it seems that I may have more chances with this than beating trial mode. Since it's all timing based, that already makes it easier.

Sure, but you can't get the main reward.

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45 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Why not?

Because otherwise it would trivialize trial mode and/or the FF boss rush.

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Honestly, I think I already did that by beating the FF Boss Rush before Trial Mode. The fact that you can use Celebi and Galaxy Star after every round makes it so easy.

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3 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Honestly, I think I already did that by beating the FF Boss Rush before Trial Mode. The fact that you can use Celebi and Galaxy Star after every round makes it so easy.

Don't worry, you won't have to worry about that in hard mode.

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46 minutes ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Honestly, I think I already did that by beating the FF Boss Rush before Trial Mode. The fact that you can use Celebi and Galaxy Star after every round makes it so easy.

Paladin is nothing compared to Oathkeeper.

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On 30/10/2018 at 5:05 PM, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Something I wanna talk about this fight...

  Reveal hidden contents

Is it just me, or Rosalina seems to be way too hard for a "Normal Mode"? I don't know the way you balance this fights, but it does seem that you guys take in count the use of save states. Personally, I try to avoid using those 99% of the time because that feels like cheating (unless is for testing purposes). I know I'm not the best at RPGs either, but there's no way you'll be able to legitimate beat her. My only complain about this fight is that the Lumas come back way too quickly (3 turns). Not only that, but she casts a devastating attack pattern every time she loses a life, which may lead to even 2 dead party members, and that means that you'll have to waste 1 turn on healing (if you're lucky, you won't get one-shoted by Galaxy Beam). By that time, at least 1 Luma may have already be brought back because there's no guaranteed way to defeat all of them at once (unless you're lucky with RNG). And she has 15 lives? Yeah, "secret boss at Yo'ster Isle" is nothing compared to this.

In other words, to balance this fight, the Lumas need to take a bit longer to come back. 5 turns seem fine, but if you think it's too much, 4 should be enough.

That's all I think about this fight. Let me know what you think. If you agree or disagree, I'm still curious about your thoughts.

I'll just put this here. Then you'll understand why this decision was made:

Spoiler

 

Easy Rosalina during Beta testing
https://youtu.be/wkSbgQkLHDU?t=8715

super buffed rosalina after the beta test
https://youtu.be/JOBFLUdD0Xs?t=4971

Rosalina version 3: 
The official game that's out now.

 

This is a boss that was NOT meant to be a pushover. Considering who the boss is, you should understand why. She was nearly impossible in version 8. So I nerfed her a lot. More importantly, I was worried that this boss would be a repeat of version 8, so I nerfed her even more. Unfortunately, Nitro made her look like a pushover. So I re-buffed her. But I over did it, so I nerfed her a little after that..while adding that little counter attack she does to keep you honest.

version 9's new features definitely overwhelm many people, and some thought the game was too hard right from the beginning. However, there are others who didn't complain about how hard the game was. They adapted and picked the game apart. These are the kinds of gamers the hack was meant for, so I took the kid gloves off. However, an easy mode was made so all gamers can have a chance to experience and enjoy the game.

In the final boss's case, it's all about team building, Item managment, stats(which is why the respec feature is a thing), your equipment, and a little luck.


 

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5 hours ago, Darkkefka said:

I'll just put this here. Then you'll understand why this decision was made:

  Hide contents

 

Easy Rosalina during Beta testing
https://youtu.be/wkSbgQkLHDU?t=8715

super buffed rosalina after the beta test
https://youtu.be/JOBFLUdD0Xs?t=4971

Rosalina version 3: 
The official game that's out now.

 

This is a boss that was NOT meant to be a pushover. Considering who the boss is, you should understand why. She was nearly impossible in version 8. So I nerfed her a lot. More importantly, I was worried that this boss would be a repeat of version 8, so I nerfed her even more. Unfortunately, Nitro made her look like a pushover. So I re-buffed her. But I over did it, so I nerfed her a little after that..while adding that little counter attack she does to keep you honest.

version 9's new features definitely overwhelm many people, and some thought the game was too hard right from the beginning. However, there are others who didn't complain about how hard the game was. They adapted and picked the game apart. These are the kinds of gamers the hack was meant for, so I took the kid gloves off. However, an easy mode was made so all gamers can have a chance to experience and enjoy the game.

In the final boss's case, it's all about team building, Item managment, stats(which is why the respec feature is a thing), your equipment, and a little luck.


 

I know you wanted to make her boss fight really hard because I know she's the goddess of the galaxy (or something like that). It's honestly really cool, but this just seems too much imo. Not because you can't survive her attacks, but because your party will always need to be at its best to be safe, and that draws battle out for too long that you'll run out of items eventually. Her Galaxy Blast move is the main reason of this. If this is what you'll have to deal in Normal Mode, I don't wanna imagine how absurdly hard this might be in Hard Mode.

Also, I've seen that from the video you linked (super buffed rosalina after the beta test), she seems easier there. She doesn't counter Galaxy Blast which already makes this fight 50% easier and do-able.

By the way, I think I've found the reason why she does Black Hole-> Galaxy Storm. She only does that when you attack her when you're past your 3rd party move (which will only be possible if you have an item that grants haste), isn't she? If that's so, then I could come up with another strategy.

I like hard challenges, but there's a fine line between challenging and unfair.

Edited by MuteCitizenMaster
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8 hours ago, Darkkefka said:

I'll just put this here. Then you'll understand why this decision was made:

  Hide contents

 

Easy Rosalina during Beta testing
https://youtu.be/wkSbgQkLHDU?t=8715

super buffed rosalina after the beta test
https://youtu.be/JOBFLUdD0Xs?t=4971

Rosalina version 3: 
The official game that's out now.

 

This is a boss that was NOT meant to be a pushover. Considering who the boss is, you should understand why. She was nearly impossible in version 8. So I nerfed her a lot. More importantly, I was worried that this boss would be a repeat of version 8, so I nerfed her even more. Unfortunately, Nitro made her look like a pushover. So I re-buffed her. But I over did it, so I nerfed her a little after that..while adding that little counter attack she does to keep you honest.

version 9's new features definitely overwhelm many people, and some thought the game was too hard right from the beginning. However, there are others who didn't complain about how hard the game was. They adapted and picked the game apart. These are the kinds of gamers the hack was meant for, so I took the kid gloves off. However, an easy mode was made so all gamers can have a chance to experience and enjoy the game.

In the final boss's case, it's all about team building, Item managment, stats(which is why the respec feature is a thing), your equipment, and a little luck.


 

Darkkefka just gave me a shoutout... kindaxD

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3 hours ago, MuteCitizenMaster said:

Also, I've seen that from the video you linked (super buffed rosalina after the beta test), she seems easier there. She doesn't counter Galaxy Blast which already makes this fight 50% easier and do-able.

The lack of Galaxy Blast counter is the only reason the superbuffed Rosalina was even doable.  The constant stream of Galaxy Beams removing everything (and sometimes just outright killing you) cannot be understated.

But making Galaxy Blast the most effective strategy for the Lumas defeats the entire purpose of making each one a different element and adding absorption, so it had to be nerfed.  Even in the final release, you can still use it, but you have to be prepared to tank one in return... it's still an effective way to wipe the Lumas out at once.

By the way, you can really take advantage of Found Illusion in that fight in Normal mode, but that won't be the case in Hard.  Better start learning those timings!

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