#GamerGate—A long-time-coming wake up call?

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#41 philsov

Professor Bordam Daravon

Job: Strategist
Posts: 3,197

01 October 2014 - 05:19 AM

Advent, on 30 September 2014 - 02:20 PM, said:

It already has [exploded]. That's precisely why we're having this discussion. :lol:

Has... it resolved? Is it still just a bunch of people yelling at each other for the wrong reasons?

Mostly over twitter no less, which is literally the worst medium to have any sort of argument/discussion over; 140 characters, hard to follow conversations leading to easily misunderstood comments, and of course internet based so relatively sociopathic and unfiltered.

#42 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

01 October 2014 - 06:18 AM

For the most part, yes, it still is a bunch of people yelling at each other for the wrong reasons.

Like every other controversy, the important stuff happens after everything calms down and the sheep move on to the next thing.

#43 snugrailgun

Casual Gamer

Job: Member
Posts: 141

01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM

Do we not need both leaders and followers? Are inferior people really supposed to depend on themselves to decide what's right when there's someone objectively better than they are to look to? If they're sheep what does that make someone who does nothing? A leader? Or someone who just doesn't give a shit?

I don't think there is a right or wrong. It's just people looking our for their own best interests using right and wrong to fit their agendas, and you wish them burned off the Earth because they aren't looking out for yours.

#44 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

01 October 2014 - 08:25 AM

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Do we not need both leaders and followers?

Course we do. That doesn't mean someone has to be a sheep.

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Are inferior people really supposed to depend on themselves to decide what's right when there's someone objectively better than they are to look to?

They are after a certain point, because that's how you grow.

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

If they're sheep what does that make someone who does nothing? A leader? Or someone who just doesn't give a shit?

That's a grey area. Not everything is in black and white.

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I don't think there is a right or wrong. It's just people looking our for their own best interests using right and wrong to fit their agendas, and you wish them burned off the Earth because they aren't looking out for yours.

I think you need to think really carefully about making assumptions about other people you know nothing about.

I said it was personal. That's me telling you I don't want it in this thread, because it's difficult to be objective about. That means that if you have a fucking question for me regarding it, you direct it to me through a goddamn PM.

There is a difference between hating people for not looking out for you, and being ostracized for something beyond your control.

#45 Lockirby2

Lock Birdy

Job: Member
Posts: 1,741

01 October 2014 - 08:32 AM

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

Do we not need both leaders and followers? Are inferior people really supposed to depend on themselves to decide what's right when there's someone objectively better than they are to look to?

People aren't necessarily inferior by nature. If somebody has the attitude that they want to learn something, they will most likely by able to do it. Besides, followers still need to be learn and be informed to do their job properly. If you're signing a petition at a cursory guess based on what you feel, you may just be running with an incorrect intuition. And virtually any leader knows how to appeal to people's intuitions, so you can't trust something like that.

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

I don't agree with this. People don't always have an agenda or something that they're hiding behind their backs. Some people do, some people don't.

#46 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

01 October 2014 - 08:49 AM

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 08:12 AM, said:

There's one more thing I want to add to this, and hopefully it will be the last thing I say in this thread about that personal note.

I have had to gnaw, bite, scratch, and claw for every bit of mental fortitude I have left. I hold every single person on this planet to roughly the same standard I do myself. I don't think that's a bad thing. If a person under a set of circumstances does something that, under the same set of circumstances, I would find reprehensible from myself, I find it reprehensible from them.

I do not associate with people that I perceive to be weak-minded. I do not associate with people who I perceive to be cowards. Note that I did not say that I only surround myself with people of above-average intelligence. Why? Because as far as I'm concerned, it's unimportant compared to strength of character.

I could go deeper, but I think this will suffice for explaining just a little bit of why I think the way I do on a public forum.

#47 philsov

Professor Bordam Daravon

Job: Strategist
Posts: 3,197

01 October 2014 - 08:51 AM

Quote

If they're sheep what does that make someone who does nothing? A leader? Or someone who just doesn't give a shit?

Someone who just didn't give a shit, yes.

Gaming journalism has always been a joke as far as I'm concerned, dating back to the Nintendo Power days. I'm pretty much in line with kjata in that I usually browse player reviews before deciding to buy a game. The only times I haven't in the past few years were Diablo 3 (mild mistake -- got good mileage), Borderlands 2 (buyers remorse), and Dark Souls 2 (sweeeeet.)

#48 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

01 October 2014 - 09:02 AM

philsov, on 01 October 2014 - 08:51 AM, said:

Gaming journalism has always been a joke as far as I'm concerned, dating back to the Nintendo Power days.

I wonder what this means for my game reviews. :okay:

#49 philsov

Professor Bordam Daravon

Job: Strategist
Posts: 3,197

01 October 2014 - 09:24 AM

That if you ever become a pro I'll probably start disregarding your opinion

Moreover, of the (very few) pro reviewers I do know, rarely do I consistently agree with them. So I tend to follow collective reviews more because of that as well. I do like Zero Punctuation, mostly because he makes an effort to address shortcomings and is usually entertaining.

Any reviewer that gives a majority of whatever they're reviewing 8.5+/10 isn't a good reviewer, imo. They're paid photogenic/likeable/witty spokespeople. This goes for any entertainment medium (movies, music, etc)

#50 Advent

The Handburglar

Job: Administrator
Posts: 8,862

01 October 2014 - 09:34 AM

philsov, on 01 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

That if you ever become a pro I'll probably start disregarding your opinion

Hahaha, fair enough.

philsov, on 01 October 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Any reviewer that gives a majority of whatever they're reviewing 8.5+/10 isn't a good reviewer, imo. They're paid photogenic/likeable/witty spokespeople. This goes for any entertainment medium (movies, music, etc)

My rating scale is similar because I view it as an academic grading scale. But maybe I need to take another look at that, especially considering you're not the first (credible) person I'm hearing say this.

#51 Crimson Avix

Hardcore Gamer

Job: Video Producer
Posts: 386

01 October 2014 - 10:24 AM

It's funny, it's because of issues like this that made me decide very early on during schooling that I would never focus on actual gaming journalism. If I decide to make a site that dedicates reviews to games that I choose to personally buy and play, than so be it, but I will never try to make a career out of it because there is too much "sleeping" between the companies and the reviewers.

#52 Archael

Risk Breaker

Job: Administrator
Posts: 7,949

01 October 2014 - 10:26 AM

For everyone saying something similar to: "I don't care about this, it doesn't affect the games I play or will play."

When ideologies insert themselves into an industry (or a space of common interests), it TOTALLY affects the products that will be produced in the future.

Developers, and publishers, will start molding their art for fear of being labeled misogynists, non-inclusive, or non-progressive. American culture is currently extremely "Politically Correct" and many game developers are keeping silent for fear of pissing off the Feminist Hornets Nest ™.

Things affect other things. I personally know plenty of people in the industry who are pro-#GamerGate but are afraid to speak out publicly for fear of losing their jobs or being labeled as privileged white misogynists who don't support the "progressive" agenda. Some of them aren't even white, but still.

Things have gotten bad.

#53 Stann

Dicklord, Lord of Dicks

Job: Regulator
Posts: 5,398

01 October 2014 - 10:54 AM

I'm not really worried. This happens every time radfems set their sights on something. They make a big stink about something, and everyone tiptoes around to avoid notice, but eventually they move on to something else and everything finds an equilibrium. (And usually an equilibrium that legitimately does have less misogyny.)

I agree with their ideals, but not with their extremism. For example, it's taken the better part of 50 years, but we've finally been getting some fantasy novels that include strong female protagonists who aren't just men in dresses. That genre of books has been so chock full of misogynistic stereotypes for the longest time, I'm glad something has changed in recent time.

#54 philsov

Professor Bordam Daravon

Job: Strategist
Posts: 3,197

01 October 2014 - 11:39 AM

Quote

When ideologies insert themselves into an industry (or a space of common interests), it TOTALLY affects the products that will be produced in the future.

Yes, but going CHANGE BAD STATUS QUO GOOD is just being ornery.

Quote

Developers, and publishers, will start molding their art for fear of being labeled misogynists, non-inclusive, or non-progressive. American culture is currently extremely "Politically Correct" and many game developers are keeping silent for fear of pissing off the Feminist Hornets Nest ™.

Games are somewhere between business and art. In a business, obviously it's best to listen to consumer feedback and develop the product most likely to give you the highest profit. In art, it's about self expression and if you don't sell a single copy so fucking what.

In this instance, let everyone speak with their wallet, imo. Support the game/company that does the things you like, and don't buy the stuff from the game/company that doesn't. Petition the company to include/disinclude feature X/Y. Doesn't seem too hard, but I'm not keen on game development nowadays.

Mass Effect's gay option -- Progressive Bioware leading the pack, Cowardly Bioware kowtowing to the demands of self righteous harpies, or somewhere in the middle? Having the option even there is a good thing, I'd argue.

Warning -- dudes kissing

Spoiler

#55 Stann

Dicklord, Lord of Dicks

Job: Regulator
Posts: 5,398

01 October 2014 - 11:47 AM

philsov, on 01 October 2014 - 11:39 AM, said:

Warning -- dudes kissing

Spoiler

#56 snugrailgun

Casual Gamer

Job: Member
Posts: 141

01 October 2014 - 11:58 AM

Lockirby2, on 01 October 2014 - 08:32 AM, said:

No amount of effort will ever make me Stephen Hawking so I'm seriously going to have to disagree on this one. There are people out there who are just better than others. Period. No amount of "you're special" or effort will change that. In fact the ability to put in so much effort could also be attributed to people better than I am. Anyway is the decision to help people not based on how a person feels?

And what's wrong with having an agenda? Are there honestly people who don't want anything out there? People who just shuffle along responding to any outside stimuli? Maybe I'm just using the word agenda incorrectly but I never meant to say that having one is a bad thing.

#57 snugrailgun

Casual Gamer

Job: Member
Posts: 141

01 October 2014 - 12:01 PM

And what's with this plus and minus system anyway? I get rated on how agreeable I am? Really?

#58 snugrailgun

Casual Gamer

Job: Member
Posts: 141

01 October 2014 - 12:08 PM

Archael, on 01 October 2014 - 10:26 AM, said:

Be it #GamerGate or sjws at least they've found a way to feel superior to both.

#59 Archael

Risk Breaker

Job: Administrator
Posts: 7,949

01 October 2014 - 12:16 PM

snugrailgun, on 01 October 2014 - 12:01 PM, said:

And what's with this plus and minus system anyway? I get rated on how agreeable I am? Really?

It's supposed to be used to +1 well-crafted posts on the site. It's not an "I agree / Disagree" button (though I understand it ends up being used that way on controversial issues).

Spam / Junk posts usually get a ton of -1's

#60 snugrailgun

Casual Gamer

Job: Member
Posts: 141

01 October 2014 - 12:21 PM

I see. Well I have said a lot of stupid shit in a bout of insecurity, and have been a bit too cynical. I think I get what my professor meant when he said pessimists and optimists are worthless.

-2

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