I totally agree. In games there basically agree two types of errors. Those which are obviously errors and therefore are easy to identify as such - and those which are not that easy to identify. For example in Lufia, if there's a tileset missing and as result a few room turn into total visual garbage, this obviously is an error and therefore in need of fixing.
If, however, a game has no properly working learning curve for its primary combat system, no one will scream for fixing that easily. A major problem of Lufia - and many other RPGs - is, well, there's a 20+ hours game, but you just won't learn anything meaningful about the combat system after the initial 2~3 hours anymore. In the beginning you learn about weapons, magic and special attacks and... that's just it. Like in the first three or so towns there's a dude standing in the local weapons shop who talks about combat with you. And in later towns there's just nobody because the game has told you everything it wanted to teach you and lacks the ability to further intensify the nature of its combat system.
Recently I uploaded 2 (lets ignore the hard mode here) different Lufia hacks of RHDN. One which only fixes the undoubtedly bugs and translation issues (Frue Lufia), and one which additionally also fixes some not-by-the-book stuff such as a messed up combat learning curve (Spekkio Lufia). Which hack do I consider superior? And which one is way more popular?
Recently I asked a streamer who finished Frue to also try the final endgame of Spekkio. And I basically got the result I expected that is a curbstomp. And for the exact reasons I expected, that is, he never ever had to deal with the combat system in any meaningful way. It just was enter smashing the whole time without the vanilla game trying anything at all to add more depths to its battles.
Or the Master of the Ancient Cave who basically has the same problems as the Magimaster - just that you'll lose around TEN HOURS of play time when you lose to him for the first time. Both battles are fine itself in theory, but fail completely in its execution. They would be perfectly acceptable if:
#1 There's an actual learning curve which lets you learn about the gimmick in question BEFORE you do the corresponding boss battle.
#2 There's a NON-OPTIONAL possibility given to actually win on first try if you're just awesome enough.
For those who don't know the Master is a giant jelly who doesn't attack and has to be beaten within three rounds. Unfortunately there's nothing else enemy-wise that even resembles that behaviour slightly.As even the small jellies just attack normally. So what do you do when you meet him the first time - after a 10 hour long run full of hard-hitting monsters? *cough* Gold Dragons *cough*
Well, as it's a boss you'll assume that you won't kill it that fast and therefore you'll play it as safe as possble. And congratulations, you basically wasted all the chances you had at victory! All the hours to get through fucking 98 floors of a dungeon - wasted! A lot of people screams for fixing graphical bugs or messed up translations - but how many demand a fix for the Master battle or the Iris Treasures?!
Well, the Iris Treasures, they are even worse than the Master... They basically are achievements, add no rewards aside from bragging rights, and are tied to an especially monotonous task - which can consume HUNDRED GODDAMN HOURS! It did so the first time I played as a child so no exaggeration here. You basically go through the same monotonous dungeon floors over and over and open the same monotonous treasure chests over and over for hour over hour in order to pray that these items despite their ridiculously low drop rate finally arouse our pity! Seriously, why do I get never ever asked to fix that?! If only I get the feedback that I let them appear too frequently instead. (To be fair, in my Kureji lufia hard mode they drop that ridiculously often that they actually are more of an annoyance than any achievement at all.)
Also Lufia never ever - aside from the optional Ancient Cave - demands anything like tactical thinking. So if you have a heavy hitting boss with high agility, what should you do considering your healing? Should you just wait til the damage is done over and over again, and then finally consider healing? Or - as there are plenty of ridiculously overpowered healing spells - should you heal in advance so that the hard hits immediately feel way less painful as they get healed right away? Or you could try to lower the agility in order to get someone faster. Whatever you do... You should LEARN from your previous battles, overthink your strategies and tactics in order to not redo the same mistakes over and over. But for quite a lot of people a game like this really isn't more than an interactive movie which you just are supposed to win nevertheless regardless of how bad you as player perform.
Especially final bosses, they are the final test whether you really did understand the combat system enough. They will question you everything you learned in your dozens of hours play time. They won't pull any punches. At least that it's how it's supposed to be. If they lack being worthy final exam tests for the players' skills, almost no one will ask any questions at all. However, a missing decent final hurdle is some kind of error, too, but unfortunately most casual gamers completely are unable to grasp these kinds of issues - that is, in its entirity. They want to win - of course, I get it, you'll get positive emotions out of winning, but what value does a victory have if it's not really earned? However, as long as you win - and please without actual trouble - it's fine and not in nedd to fix... An unlike the vanilla game where they more likely will pull themselves together (speaking of hard, but also fair difficulty), it's just too easy to blame the hack for your players' mistakes and just stick with vanilla - sadly.
On the nature of modding & game design...
in Hacking & Modding
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I totally agree. In games there basically agree two types of errors. Those which are obviously errors and therefore are easy to identify as such - and those which are not that easy to identify. For example in Lufia, if there's a tileset missing and as result a few room turn into total visual garbage, this obviously is an error and therefore in need of fixing.
If, however, a game has no properly working learning curve for its primary combat system, no one will scream for fixing that easily. A major problem of Lufia - and many other RPGs - is, well, there's a 20+ hours game, but you just won't learn anything meaningful about the combat system after the initial 2~3 hours anymore. In the beginning you learn about weapons, magic and special attacks and... that's just it. Like in the first three or so towns there's a dude standing in the local weapons shop who talks about combat with you. And in later towns there's just nobody because the game has told you everything it wanted to teach you and lacks the ability to further intensify the nature of its combat system.
Recently I uploaded 2 (lets ignore the hard mode here) different Lufia hacks of RHDN. One which only fixes the undoubtedly bugs and translation issues (Frue Lufia), and one which additionally also fixes some not-by-the-book stuff such as a messed up combat learning curve (Spekkio Lufia). Which hack do I consider superior? And which one is way more popular?
Recently I asked a streamer who finished Frue to also try the final endgame of Spekkio. And I basically got the result I expected that is a curbstomp. And for the exact reasons I expected, that is, he never ever had to deal with the combat system in any meaningful way. It just was enter smashing the whole time without the vanilla game trying anything at all to add more depths to its battles.
Or the Master of the Ancient Cave who basically has the same problems as the Magimaster - just that you'll lose around TEN HOURS of play time when you lose to him for the first time. Both battles are fine itself in theory, but fail completely in its execution. They would be perfectly acceptable if:
#1 There's an actual learning curve which lets you learn about the gimmick in question BEFORE you do the corresponding boss battle.
#2 There's a NON-OPTIONAL possibility given to actually win on first try if you're just awesome enough.
For those who don't know the Master is a giant jelly who doesn't attack and has to be beaten within three rounds. Unfortunately there's nothing else enemy-wise that even resembles that behaviour slightly.As even the small jellies just attack normally. So what do you do when you meet him the first time - after a 10 hour long run full of hard-hitting monsters? *cough* Gold Dragons *cough*
Well, as it's a boss you'll assume that you won't kill it that fast and therefore you'll play it as safe as possble. And congratulations, you basically wasted all the chances you had at victory! All the hours to get through fucking 98 floors of a dungeon - wasted! A lot of people screams for fixing graphical bugs or messed up translations - but how many demand a fix for the Master battle or the Iris Treasures?!
Well, the Iris Treasures, they are even worse than the Master... They basically are achievements, add no rewards aside from bragging rights, and are tied to an especially monotonous task - which can consume HUNDRED GODDAMN HOURS! It did so the first time I played as a child so no exaggeration here. You basically go through the same monotonous dungeon floors over and over and open the same monotonous treasure chests over and over for hour over hour in order to pray that these items despite their ridiculously low drop rate finally arouse our pity! Seriously, why do I get never ever asked to fix that?! If only I get the feedback that I let them appear too frequently instead. (To be fair, in my Kureji lufia hard mode they drop that ridiculously often that they actually are more of an annoyance than any achievement at all.)
Also Lufia never ever - aside from the optional Ancient Cave - demands anything like tactical thinking. So if you have a heavy hitting boss with high agility, what should you do considering your healing? Should you just wait til the damage is done over and over again, and then finally consider healing? Or - as there are plenty of ridiculously overpowered healing spells - should you heal in advance so that the hard hits immediately feel way less painful as they get healed right away? Or you could try to lower the agility in order to get someone faster. Whatever you do... You should LEARN from your previous battles, overthink your strategies and tactics in order to not redo the same mistakes over and over. But for quite a lot of people a game like this really isn't more than an interactive movie which you just are supposed to win nevertheless regardless of how bad you as player perform.
Especially final bosses, they are the final test whether you really did understand the combat system enough. They will question you everything you learned in your dozens of hours play time. They won't pull any punches. At least that it's how it's supposed to be. If they lack being worthy final exam tests for the players' skills, almost no one will ask any questions at all. However, a missing decent final hurdle is some kind of error, too, but unfortunately most casual gamers completely are unable to grasp these kinds of issues - that is, in its entirity. They want to win - of course, I get it, you'll get positive emotions out of winning, but what value does a victory have if it's not really earned? However, as long as you win - and please without actual trouble - it's fine and not in nedd to fix... An unlike the vanilla game where they more likely will pull themselves together (speaking of hard, but also fair difficulty), it's just too easy to blame the hack for your players' mistakes and just stick with vanilla - sadly.