Red_Shine

1 minute ago, Kei said:

Never noticed about the swapped palletes, but Death hand not being dark-dark always bugged me out as well. It's purely aesthetic, but would be cool if it doesn't take too much work to fix

Haha I'm glad I'm not the only one that things so.

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

I just think the table on that side is wrong,
everywhere in code I've looked it is by order of ids:
Godhand stuff
Warrior Monk stuff
Deathhand stuff
Dervish stuff

 

I think it'd help me more if you told me explicitly what you want changed.
Then I may look into it, no promises.

Well, even if you aren't able to check it out, I appreciate the fact you've been replying.
I realize this may kind of sound like wild speculation out of nowhere, but the fact remains that at the very least the Death Hand and Dervish palettes are wrong on Kevin's map sprite (Death Hand has Dervish colors and vice versa, they look fine on the status screen though).

So if it was possible to revert the palette mix up, it would be great. If you were to go an extra mile I'd be extremely happy if you could change the class branching on the status screen for Kevin to read:

                Monk - God Hand

                         - Warrior Monk

Grappler --
                  Baskhar - Dervish

                               - Death Hand

Which I believe is the intended class branch order. I know it's a pretty nitpicky request, but there you have it.

3 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

I don't see proof there, mind pointing it out?
All the game data I've seen has been in the regular order
Godhand, Warrior Monk, Death Hand, Dervish

But then again, what is the Light/Dark categorization? Ingame there's no mention of that concept, it only exists outside of it.

Well, I believe the manual mentions it, and even if we are to discredit the manual, the classes on the lower branch have a clearly more "evil" theming to themselves: Death Hand's name and weapons (Skull Dissect) also the way the Duelist dresses, the fact Fenrir is the god devouring wolf during ragnarok and so on.

In any case, allow me to try to explain the table.

Let me use Duran as an example that follows the correct order that you pointed out.

The table data structure is as follows:

Class family is a value from 00 to 05, with 00 being the Fighter classes, 01 being the Grappler classes, and so on.

Class changes is 00 for the base class, 01 for a second-level class, and 02 for a third-level class.

Light-dark scale can range between 00 and 03, with 00 being light-light and 03 being dark-dark.

Fighter                00-00-00           Fighter
Fighter                00-01-00           Knight                    3-step cut
Fighter                00-01-01           Gladiator                Whirlwind Sword
Fighter                00-02-00           Paladin                   Flashing Sword
Fighter                00-02-01           Lord                       Magic Circle
Fighter                00-02-02           Swordmaster           Vacuum Blade
Fighter                00-02-03           Duelist                    Eruption Sword

This is Duran's table. Notice how dark class branches increment the last value with each class change (even if you don't care for the name of the branches, please bear with me for the sake of argument). Dashes aren't present on the table, I just added them for legibility.

Now for Kevin here's what you have:

Grappler              01-00-00           Grappler
Grappler              01-01-00           Monk              Whilwind Kick, Tornado Throw    
Grappler              01-01-01           Bashkar           Water-Moon Slice, Bastard Slam
Grappler              01-02-00           God Hand        Byakko Shockwave, Stardust Bomb         
Grappler              01-02-01           Warrior Monk   Genbu 100 Kick, Blow Impact
Grappler              01-02-02           Dervish           Suzaku Sky Dance, Veritubach (wrong translation, should be BTB, Belly to back, as in the throw move).
Grappler              01-02-03           Death Hand     Seiryuu Death Fist, Dead Crush

The index of the first value went up by 1 because I assume Kevin is the second character in memory. Notice that to match Duran's table, Death Hand should be the last class of the "low" branch.

A few more points of interest: Dervish and Death Hand have their palettes wrong, they are swapped around when you compare them to the status screen art, which would make zero sense unless something was afoot. (I can try to supply screen shots of this if you'd like).

Also, at least in vanilla SD3, Death Hand is clearly stronger, while Dervish has more survivability due to HP sapping saber magic. In terms of raw damage though Death Hand wins out, which doesn't match up with any of the other characters.

I'm not trying to convince you, but I honestly think the developers made a mistake.
            

Hello, I have registered exclusively to say that I love this mod, and I'd like to ask the author if he intends to address an issue that while minor, has bothered me for quite a long time.
(thanks for all the bugfixes by the way, they are amazing).

The issue in question has to do with Kevin's dark classes. I always suspected Dervish and Death Hand were reversed position wise regarding Kevin's class tree in the status screen and also the palettes were swapped around.
To substantiate my suspicions I ran a few tests and what I found is that both in the unpatched (Japanese) and English patched rom the palettes are indeed wrong for the sprites (they remain correct in both cases in the status screen itself.

As for the dark class branches being wrong, I actually found proof today in a table contained here: https://wiki.superfamicom.org/seiken-densetsu-3 
considering the format of the class index in the game's memory, it's pretty clear that Dervish is Dark-Light and Death Hand is Dark-Dark as I always suspected.

What I'd like to ask is if this is fixable in your hack and if so, if you'd be willing to integrate it.

I appreciate your time and keep up the good work.