hmsong

@praetarius5018

Thanks for everything.  You've been a such huge help.  If I have any suggestions for 2.0, I'll post it on that board.

10 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Slightly off-topic, but why were you using Duran and Angela? Since you didn't have Carlie on that battle, it means she's not your third character, which means your third character was Kevin, Hawk or Lise. Why didn't you have them as your second character, since Angela is practically useless against FMH? In terms of mechanics, Duran and Angela don't even have much synergy in the vanilla game.

The reason I had Duran and Angela was because they both had direct relations to the main story.  And as you said, if I wanted for pragmatic purpose, then sure, I could have made it so that my 3rd char would be 2nd to join (therefore making the FMH fight easier).  But I wanted to test it with the "typical" setting (Duran+Angela, Hawk+Carlie, Hawk+Lise), for people who's not familiar with this game.

Btw, the typical level for FMH fight is Lv5 (I just grinded like hell to make the fight easier).  That means, you'd either not-level up STR or VIT for FMH fight (assuming you leveled up those two in the first 3 levels).  Well, if I wanted to make the fight easier specifically for FMH fight, then I'd level up SPI instead of VIT, since all of FMH attacks are SPI attacks.  But I don't "waste" my point on that stat, since VIT or INT is more important for all other bosses and monsters, at least in the beginning.

28 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

As I said, I think this is just a lousy idea. If the game's hitbox mechanics or evade RNG messes you over, you lose the tech even though you have no control over it. This makes the game more frustrating, not better. It's not like Sabers and buffs/debuffs are available until the first class change (especially if you nerf Byzel items to be more expensive or less available). So before that, this kind of level 1 tech mechanics just reinforce the playstyle of spamming the attack button and never using techs, since without the stack multipliers, level 1 techs aren't that much better than normal attacks, and the risk of them backfiring and causing you to lose the tech completely just encourages you to attack with physical attack spam instead. I'd take the implementation of all physical attacks doing half damage over this kind of mechanic any day.

I see.  Well, if that option is at least available, then you can simply choose not to implement that.  In my case, I'd like to implement that.  I very much would like that.

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

I mean with those cases it would be more consistent if the TP is used up the moment you press the tech button but... still feels like stealing.

Yeah, that's it.  That's EXACTLY what I want.  I can see why some people would feel that it's stealing, but that means it will discourage people to use Lv1 tech -- it may be powerful (esp with saber/buff), but unlike Lv2/3 tech, you may actually miss, and it'll all be player's fault (not being in range of your enemy, not raising AGI stat, etc).  Computers don't press the tech button, so they may be immune to "TP being used up" part (I'm okay with either case though).

I understand that you don't want to apply this to Sin of Mana (SoM has its own ways to power down Lv1 tech).  But would you be willing to create this and release it on RHDN?

7 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Techs are completely different in the Trials of Mana Remake, though. They take several battles to build up (sort of like limit breaks in the FF series), and when you use them, level 1 techs are just like level 2-4 techs in the way that they launch a special attack that always hits the enemy or enemies.

Huh?  I thought you can miss (or rather, you can use it when nobody is around, and it'll be used up).  At least, I think that's what one of the reviews said.  Or maybe I misheard something?  Oh well.

7 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

I don't know the exact levels but bosses are either the same level as the mobs in their dungeon or at most 1 level higher.
So that range should be around L4 to 12.

Thanks.  I figured that was the case.  I just wanted to know the specifics, since the little details are the ones that affect the difficulties.  Oh well.

Yeah, I agree that Lv1 tech should be x1.5.  And messing with the stacking would probably require heavy endeavor that I'm unlikely able to do (not that I wanted to do that in the first place).  And indeed, the defense re-calculation would do some things, but as you said, that would change the whole game, with who-knows what kind of unwanted side effects there are.

I was watching the review of the new Trials of Mana for Switch/PS4.  They mentioned that in that game, the techs will be used up the moment you use it, not when it hits an opponent.  One guy mentioned that it would have been a positive change if that were applied in the original game, since Lv1 tech was so powerful in that game.  I thought about it, and having a "risk of missing it" would make it less powerful without reducing its powers or something (and force players to think more carefully before unleashing that -- vanilla makes it so that people can spam it the moment they get them, since there's no risk of any kind).  I just thought it'd be a neat idea, that's all.

32 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Honestly, have you considered crediting praetarius5018 as the co-author of your hack? It feels like over 75% of the features implemented in your hack have been directly told to you by him.

I did that.  I specifically credited praetarius5018 for his works (and obtained his permission to use them for my patch, after my first blunder).  It's right in the document.  And I specifically said in the document that praetarius5018 helped me to create the patches.

And where are you getting 75%?  I only released 3 hacks.  And one of them is an extension of another.  And while praetarius5018 told me the addresses of where things are (and the values), he didn't tell me what to put for my patches (the things he did, I specifically credited him as his sole work).

But if he wants me to credit him for Energy Ball and Item Shop, then I will do so.  He definitely helped me on those, directly or indirectly.  I don't have any problem with that.

2 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

I think this is a terrible idea now that the evade stat actually works. If the tech bar is drained because of player not targeting anything, that's so-so but can be understood, but if the tech bar is drained because RNG decides to mess up the player due to evade stat kicking in, that's just frustrating, cheap and something the players have no control over.

Well, the point is to make Lv2/3 tech better than Lv1 tech.  In this case, Lv1 tech is too powerful, so making it worse would be a good idea, at least in my humble opinion.  In any case, I'm already aware this won't happen, since praetarius5018 rejected the idea, and I lack the ability to make this.

Wait, that's what you meant by attack value?  I thought the attack value you spoke of was [strength stat + weapon stat + RNG variation + probably some other stuff].  I assumed Kevin's attacks in werewolf form is calculated that way, except adding additional 1/7 attack value.

As for the bug patch, I'm simply stating what I felt, just like how those people said their pieces in the review.  I could leave a review too, but I felt it would be more proper for me to say things here, since this would allow conversation.  Actually, I thought the melee half power was an unintended error of some kind.  And now, I know it wasn't unintended, and more importantly, I also now know the reason you made it that way.  Just because I disliked some parts of what you did doesn't mean I disliked the entire patch.  I have nothing but gratitude towards you for creating the bug patch.  And for helping me so much throughout last few months in creating my own patches.  So once again, thank you.

Also, could you please tell me the levels of the bosses that I previously mentioned?  I'd really appreciate it.

9 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Correct, I'm referring to the actual ingame value.

You'll have to search for it in RAM since hero data can actually move around.

Hmm.  How do I search for the attack power value?  I can search for things like experience and gold, since there's a specific number that I can search for, but for the attack value, I don't know how.

9 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

That would only make the game more frustrating.

Well, if Lv1 techs are weakened by being able to miss, then I think it'd be worth it.

The issue I have with weakening all melee attack isn't because of the end-game -- that makes perfect sense to weaken the melee.  It's the beginning 1/3 of the game (before 1st class change).  The grind takes forever, because regular enemies take forever to kill.  And the bosses are even worse.  I couldn't even beat Full Metal Hugger at Lv6 (that's overleveled in that point of the game, since the enemies only give 3~4 exp).  I had to hack and give myself infinite money to buy 9 chocolates and candies and puipui grass, and even then, I only barely beat it (I only had 2 characters -Duran and Angela).

Btw, for vanilla, could you please tell me the levels of all bosses up to Gorva?  I don't see any documents anywhere in the internet about their levels.  Unlike the normal monsters, the game doesn't display the levels of the bosses.  Specifically:

• Full Metal Hugger
• Machine Golem
• Jewel Eater
• Tzenker
• Genova
• Bill & Ben
• Gorva

I'm trying to create a patch that edits the starting stats for everyone (and growth limit), but since it messes with the boss stats, I want to make sure that things aren't too easy/hard.  If I at least know their level (and therefore their upper stat limit for that particular level), then I can work out the difficulties.

2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Put a write breakpoint on Kevin's attack power value, activate the CPU logging and then have him transform until the breakpoint snaps.

I recall that it was in the compressed section so prepare to sift through a couple thousand lines.

Okay, what is the address on Kevin's attack power value?  I don't think you're referring to the "level stat limit".

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

This becomes especially true when you consider that L3 techs are twice as expensive but with saber get even with L1 techs at best and most bosses and several mobs answer L3 techs or spells with extra attacks of their own.

That's true.  Okay, then is there a way to make Lv1 tech worse?  I feel like Lv1 tech is the real problem here.  For example, is there a way to make the Lv1 bar be "spent", whether you hit the enemy or not?  It doesn't seem like you used that idea for Sin of Mana, so you may want to make that for Sin of Mana 2.0.

1 hour ago, smileless said:

With the way physical damage worked in the original you never would want to put Angela in your party. The physical damage was just stupid. The decrease makes sense, hell even Duran in the original I would say wouod be better off by using Level 1 techs when using a saber for weakness. Level 2/3 techs served no purpose when you had such a dumb attack power per hit with power up + saber, might as well always stick with your Level 1 techs.

Well, I guess that's true.  But praetarius5018's bug patch made Power Up weaker (I can't test it, since I can't compare it to the vanilla value, but I believe him).  And my Item Shop patch made it so Drake's Scale is no longer available in the black market (although magic seed being available may technically mean otherwise).

I see.  Thank you for the information.  I don't know if you'll ever update the bug fix patch, but if you do, I'd really appreciate it if you can put in the document something like, "the power of all regular attacks (both you and monsters) is halved."  Personally, I dislike the decreasing the melee power to that magnitude, since that makes each battles (esp before the 1st class change) take forever.  But you must have your reasons for doing that.

Btw, is there a way to decrease Kevin's werewolf bonus?  I heard vanilla is 1/7 power boost, but I want to decrease its power boost further (1/10?).

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

I did indeed half all melee damage; regular, Lv1 and crits.
So sounds like it is working as intended.

Oh, the attached document said, "-changed attack of crits from +50% to +25%".  I thought that was simply the power of the crit attacks, not normal attacks.

8 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Most enemies follow Lise's stats, 20+ uses her light class, and 40+ her light-light class.

When you said, "most enemies follow Lise's stats", do you mean her base class stats?  As in, if I increase stats from D14108~D14167, it would make normal enemies harder?

Also, because 1.3b was so hard (I was barely doing any damage), so I tried v1.3b and vanilla.  And for whatever reason, v1.3b melee attack is doing only half the damage.  Could you check what's going on?  I feel like instead of halving the critical hit damage, you ended up halving the regular melee attack.

No wait, I get that it doesn't really change anything (so it won't affect the gameplay in any way).  As an analogy, it's as if you made Ninja Master into DD and Nightblade into DL (in the menu) -- it doesn't change anything gameplay-wise.  I'm just wondering the reason you chose to switch Kevin's DL and DD in the menu, that's all.  Since this is a "bug fix" patch, I figured that there was a bug somewhere, where the the name didn't match something, and I missed it.

Btw, this may be something I'm falsely seeing, so could you please tell me if I'm wrong or not?  Just for fun, I upped the starting stats (and the following level up "limits") of all characters -- D13EB0~D14167.  But when I did that, I thought I saw some enemies doing more damage on me (esp magic).  So here's the question:  Do these level-up limits of your characters affect the enemy stats too?  At least for some enemies?

I know for certain that Koren (when you first meet him in the Duran tutorial scenario) did more damage, despite Duran having higher INT stat than the vanilla.

@praetarius5018

For your bug patch on RHDN, why exactly did you switch the menu name for Death Hand and Dervish?  Here's vanilla:

Menu    Class            Item ID    Upgrade Item       Tech

DL        Deathhand    07           Death Wolf Soul    Seiryuu Death Fist

DD        Dervish         08           Devil Wolf Soul     Suzaku Sky Dance

Yours reverses the "Menu" section (Deathhand is DD, and Dervish is DL).  I mean, there's no particular problem, because Death Wolf Soul still transforms Kevin into Death Hand and all.  It's just that for other characters, their DL item ID is before their DD item ID, and Kevin was no different.  So I just want to know why you decided to switch their menu.

Or did the new Trials of Mana (Switch/PS4) switch DL and DD class or something?

Thank you.

7 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Very complicated, and it stays where it is.

Aww.  Oh well.  Thanks anyways.

Thank you very much.  You've been a tremendous help.  Now, I'm just gonna casually enjoy the game.

Heh, it seems like that vanilla's 33% power boost was more like an error than anything else.  Thanks for telling me.

I'm gonna take down the No Skill Counter and TransShape fix from my patch, since your bug fix patch is simply better.  But may I have your permission to include the Aura Wave mod for my balance patch?

I don't know how complicated the "cast time in menu" fix is, but if possible, could you include that in the next fix only patch?  I feel like that's one of the more obvious glitches in the game.

Awesome.  Thank you.

Btw, the patch seems to only reduce effects for Power Up/Down, but not other stat up spells.  So questions.

1. For vanilla, did Protect Up/Down and Mind Up/Down also change their stats by 33%?  (You already insinuated that Speed Up/Down didn't change anything, even when Agi/Eva were enabled, so let's put that aside)
2. For other spells and items that changes Powers (such as Hawkeye's Water Jutsu, Black Curse, and various magic items), would that also be reduced to 20%?

Wuw... that's a lot of logging.  And I can't even tell what's what.

Btw, I see that you updated your bug fix patch to 1.3b.  What has changed?  I don't see any difference in the description.

Hmm.  Perhaps the reason I can't find .log file is because I don't know how to use the Logging:CPU function.  How do I do that?  I don't see any button that says, " Logging:CPU" or anything close to that.

Okay, I put a breakpoint at D0E580, and did so near the end of the spell animation of Energy Ball.  I see <rom name>.usage file in the Logs folder.  How do I open it?  I opened it with Notepad, and all I got was some weird texts, so I'm guessing I'm supposed to use a different program to open it.

I see.  Thank you for your help.  That'll make the normal crit not so common (max = [2 + 22]/254 = ~9.4%), which is a lot more sane.

Hmm.  So if I were to change the crit to be based on 254 (instead of the original 100), how would that affect Energy Ball?  I remember you telling me that you made the bug-fix patch's Energy Ball to normal crit +10% (just like Sin of Mana).  But if I make crit based on 254, it won't be +10% -- it'll only be +3.9% (10/254 = 3.9%).  Right?  How would I be able to change the Energy Ball's critical bonus rate?

Oh, okay, so please correct me if I'm wrong:

Currently, D0CADB's value is A9 65 00.  So... I'm supposed to change it to A9 FF 00? (which will result in 254 instead of 100?)

Quote

It takes the value that is currently in A, so you have to check where that came from and change that, hint: the instruction directly before it.

The instruction before LDA #$0065 is STA $1C (which is apparently pointing to 000E1C?), but the value is 3B 18 69 08.  I have a feeling I'm looking at something completely unrelated.

Quote

no, you want the SNES addressing there, so 22 40 F1 D3.
SNES does NOT know our addresses in the hex editor. Just be happy you don't have to deal with headered Lo-ROM, that is a headache and a half.

Wait, so for Aura Wave edit, I replaced the 4-byte values at 10E589 to 22 30 F1 13 (and 13F130 to B1 34 18 69 06 D1 36 90 02 B1 36 91 34 6B).  Was I supposed to replace the values of 10E589 to 22 30 F1 D3?

Oh.  Okay.  Got it (just as you said).  But now what do I do?  Since crit is out of 100, I thought I'd see hex number 64 somewhere, I but I don't.  Even in at C00620.

Perhaps I'm jumping ahead, but according to what you posted above, I'm supposed to overwrite the 4-byte values at D0CACA with 22 zz yy xx, so if I were to do so at the end of bank D3 (let's say D3F140), then I'd be overwriting that with 22 40 F1 13.  And at D3F140 (it's currently full of FFs), I'd be overwrite the next few bytes with:

But again, I still don't see 64 anywhere.

Yes, I pressed "Step Into" (multiple times).  The problem is, I didn't see the instruction for JSL $C00620 (2nd pic of the previous post).  It gave me bunch of other stuff, such as LDX #00E3.

Also, what is "instruction" for JSL$C00620?  I don't think it's telling me what to do or anything.

Wuw, I feel like I'm talking to you real time.

Hmm.  As soon as I put the breakpoint on D0CACA, the game froze (before I got the chance to hit any enemy) and gave me this result (pic 04).  And it still didn't give me " JSL $C00620" result, no matter how many times I pressed "Step Into" (pic 05).