rpschamp

Also, I noticed something buggy with the +2 tech points on evade armor (available at the Dwarf Village). If I manage to evade twice without gaining any tech points through attacking, my tech bar is at 4 TP, but I can't use my level 1 tech at that time or for the rest of the battle.

This could work; it could also be the bonus that Kevin gets from Pressure Point (25% sounds pretty nice). I still like the idea of Kevin maintaining his attack superiority at a low MP upkeep, akin to a Shaolin monk focusing his mental efforts on battle through mediation (rather than DBGT haha). It would help a little, as a hint that the attack did something. A player may try multiple things between Energy Ball and Spiral Moon, and the level 2/3 tech might have been a mistake, maybe something one of their teammates did while they were focused on casting Antimagic. The counter colors would hint that you countered something, but Kei's idea of a specific "out of the ordinary" color might be even better (and could be used at Mispolm, Dark Lich, and maybe a couple other places). If you really wanted to drop a hint, you could add a line to the README under counterattacks, something like "in certain situations, a level 2/3 tech may be needed instead to counter a specific move."

That's true. I suggested using the counterattack colors here because level 2/3 techs cannot otherwise be used to perform a counterattack, so it would note something out of the ordinary. But a more general "out of the ordinary" color could be used for other gimmick-breaking moves as well.

Since you're adjusting the damage color scheme, maybe the damage colors of the level 2/3 tech could simply be changed to counterattack colors to show that it cancelled Dolan's Energy Ball? This would at least give the player a more direct clue that the attack specifically did something out of the ordinary.

I agree here - two solutions wouldn't hurt, especially since the Antimagic solution would be the more resource-intensive. Nesouk mentioned this earlier too. The current solution took me three or four fights to figure out. I got the idea to counter Energy Ball, the normal way, with a level 1 tech, which didn't work, but then I thought that maybe I needed to do a "super counter" by using a level 2/3 tech. It wasn't until I later read on the message board that I realized this level 2/3 tech didn't need to be timed as a counter; it just needed to be executed before he threw the next Spiral Moon. That made things a little bit easier.

I suppose you mean Kevin's STR+VIT vs. Hawk's AGI+LUC? But, Kevin only gets his STR+VIT advantage at night, whereas Hawk always has his AGI+LUC advantage. Maybe you want them to be equal in melee, but Hawk has other stat and spell advantages, so I think the melee advantage should go to Kevin, in general.

Thus the importance of context. Unfortunately, context on a message board is highly subjective, largely dependent on what someone has read that day. I honestly don't get why Dolan is such a touchy subject. Yeah, he can kick your ass, but isn't that the point? My vote is for a Super Saiyin-style Kevin-exclusive melee/tech buff to set him apart from his closest competitor Hawk who has 1) much higher base Luck and 2) only 1 less base Strength on average. I know wolf-form already kind of fits into this category, but he could use something else.

Got it. Sorry for misinterpreting what you were saying. If you haven't already realized, unmarked jokes have a tendency to fall flat on these boards. (EDIT: Especially today, when things got a little testy on another topic.) If you have no plans for Ancient 3 though, it might be nice to give Kevin something unique with Pressure Point, especially with that cool wolf head icon. A unique buff would make him more attractive to players if you feel he's underused. An aggro/shield spell is still an option. Give it some thought.

I may have misinterpreted you. I thought you were expressing some degree of regret or annoyance over "Kevin bashing". I interpreted your invitation to continue "Kevin bashing" as sarcastic. EDIT: Or perhaps you just meant that he has been bashed sufficiently, and should be bashed no more. In this case, limiting his spell roster would not be bashing since he already has fewer spells than everyone else.

That's up to you. Some unique buff to pin him as the king of fighters, maybe just a simple damage bonus to his level 1 tech. I was just trying to kill two birds with one stone - help fill out Kevin's spell roster, and regain some of his lost power I thought you were saying should not have been taken away, through a unique ability. God Hand could get this back as well.

Why don't you use Ancient 3 for Archdemon instead, and recover Pressure Point for Kevin? I just think this could be something unique to add for Kevin to address some of the misgivings you're feeling about how he's been changed. And it has a damn cool icon! Plus, this could be one of the more fun spells to playtest.

What about Pressure Point? I don't think this is currently being used, and it's in the original game. The spell with the wolf head icon that only Monk gets. You can still use this, right?

Understood. Well, what if you give him some upkeep abilities to recover some of his melee dominance? He could use his MP to maintain some unique advantage in melee through upkeep spells. Thematically, this is kind of the point of the classically trained monk. Pressure Point would be a natural conduit for this. Instead of my shield/aggro idea, he could use it to regain his +1 TP per hit ability, for instance, or to give him some unique bonus to hit/crit percentage or tech damage. Other unused spells could be repurposed to different effects. These types of spells could be something unique to Kevin that Hawk could not step on, since Hawk already benefited most from the Luck fix. (Though in general I think Kevin's base Luck could be brought up a bit.) I don't want to bash Kevin. He lost his pup... and compared to the others, he's a pretty lovable guy. EDIT: After some more thought, I really like the idea of Kevin being able to channel his MP into regaining his OP-melee state. It could build up his spell roster and give him a unique quality, resonant with the original game. It may take some thought on how best to implement this.

Here's a spell idea for Kevin: Use his previous "Pressure Point" spell to give him shield/aggro. (As in he becomes the point of pressure.) He can maintain this as upkeep. This gives him a novel shield option that he can use without sacrificing equipment. If you don't like that idea, the spell can still be repurposed to help him fill out his spell roster.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. In the past, Kevin's spells have been limited because he did the most melee damage and didn't need the versatility to compensate. Versatility, as in number of spells learned, is it's own advantage. That is to say, typically it was Kevin doing the "bashing". I know you have been moving away from this model, though. If you want to fill out the spell rosters thematically, Duran should get more direct damage spells and sabers, being more of a power-minded guy, and Kevin should get more buffs and support spells, being more empathetic.

Good point. Wouldn't the simplest solution then be to just limit the spell ring for specific classes so the regen ring would be a tradeoff? Set Kevin's max spell slots to 6 or 8 spells, for instance? Not every class needs 10 learnable spells, and it might make more sense thematically for some classes to have fewer.

Thanks for this; I'll have time to look over "Charlie" and Hawk later today. I agree that this requires some thought. But one option is to just leave some of these classes less customizable, and improve them in other ways. I don't think that this is a major problem for Kevin, since he's thematically a "simpler" character with more straightforward utility through melee. He could get a stat boost to compensate, maybe a small boost to Luck, for instance, putting him statistically between Duran and Hawk. For Dark Duran, Swordmaster should have enough spells to be customizable, and Duelist could maybe fall into the "simpler", less customizable category with his focus on level 2/3 techs. Light Duran is trickier, but I think you could fill him out with a few more direct damage spells, sabers, buffs/debuffs, and support spells, taking care to keep him different enough from Bishop and Vanadis. For example, Paladin could get ST Holy Ball/Saint Beam and maybe ST Diamond Missile/Earthquake, while Lord could get MT Holy Ball, MT Evil Gate, and maybe Fire and Ice Sabers to give him a variety of elemental damage options. You could also give Duran better stats; some extra SPI points for instance would make him a better shield user and help with his direct damage and heal spells. I agree that this sounds like making him more like Lise, but Lise should still stand out with her access to summons and complete buff/debuff sets. And there's always the option to restrict access to shields again to Light Duran (like in the original), but I don't like this; it feels like taking a step backwards.

Well, I think that Angela's and Lise's classes look great as you have them, and I don't think we'll really know any problems until they get played for a while. I don't have much to add for Angela or Lise; I love the increased customizability and think other players will go nuts over trying different team and character builds when this comes out. The only thing is that Earth spells seem to be left out a little so far, but I get that this is because Lise is more Wind-oriented. Looking forward to Carlie next? Keep up the good work!

I would actually call BS on that one;you have to do a whole dungeon AND a boss fight until its last HP before the trick even appears. So you easily lose like half an hour. Dolan has a save statue directly before it and starts with the kill move. So it is 1-2 minutes tops. This. TBH, I actually kind of like Dolan having the "trickiest" gimmick; he's always been the baddest ass of the God Beasts and kind of a marquee boss for the game. If players don't use that save point after climbing Moonreading Tower, they're asking for trouble. Also, in general, the purpose of these message boards should be for players and mod designers to share findings and suggestions with each other and the designer. The experience of playing and sharing is the point; if it results in a change, that's great, but a change should not be expected. No game is perfect (otherwise, these mods would have no reason to exist), and no one has infinite time to devote to fixing problems. I'm pretty sure the designers don't get paid for this work; they have lives and responsibilities outside of perfecting these games, and even if they did get paid, it's not up to players to dictate what they do with their time, OR their creation. I know it can be frustrating if you feel like your advice or problem is not heard or valued. I think in this case, the most you can do is repost it in a more obvious way, or try harder to explain the importance of the problem. Sometimes it takes multiple people reporting the problem for it to get fixed. I apologize if I'm misunderstanding the situation, and please point it out to me if I'm being off-base; I've had so much fun posting, positing, and discussing details of this game with all of you over the past few years. I just want everyone to respect each other's time, effort, and responsibilities here. As far as I understand, these mods are labors of love, and should be treated as such.

I missed that! (Now I see why you listed only Unicorn Head at the head of their lists.) Looks good then. Nice class with good direct damage options, whereas Fenrir Knight focuses more on debuffs and utility spells. I assumed this was the case. Any thoughts on this, or do you think that it would make Dragon Master too powerful? Also, do you have any changes planned to Ghost Road or Demon Breath? I think Ghost Road is fine as it is, but Demon Breath's Dark element makes it more of a liability in the endgame for an MT spell. To balance this, you could remove the Dark element (Air and Fire should be enough) or add a Curse option to it.

Classical Valkyrie upgrade, a level 2 ST damage spell as opposed to Star Lancer's level 1 MT damage spells, Heal Light and Tinkle Rain roughly balance out with Star Lancer's MT buffs and Marduke's ever-useful Silence. Looks good. Classical Red Mage, great variety of useful buffs, debuffs, Silence (though missing Poison), and damage spells. Love this one. I like the idea of making Dragon Master a more summon-centric class for Lise, but there's no option here to get both Power Down and Mind Down. Learning these two skills should at least be an option for Dark Lise, maybe at a sacrifice in this case. Here are some ideas to fix this: - Remove Sleep Flower or Gremlin from the spell list. This way, if Dragon Master completes her INT and AGL series, she has to completely ignore her PIE series and will miss her summon and MT Speed and Protect Down. - Set Unicorn Head to be replaced by Gremlin, Ghoul, or Ghost. Same as above: by completing her INT and AGL series, she will miss her summon and MT Speed and Protect Down. - Switch the positions of Mind Down and Anti-Magic. This way, by learning both Mind Down and Power Down, she would be giving up Anti-Magic, a major sacrifice since her final weapon empowers it. - Replace Sleep Flower or Gremlin with Demon Breath, so that she at least gets a MT Mind Down option. This would be a nice mirror to Fenrir Knight having Ghost Road as an MT Power Down option obtainable earlier through a different series. If you did this, you might consider switching the positions of Jormungand and Lunatic so that she would have to choose to give up either her summon or MT Speed and Protect Down, rather than choosing to give up either Lunatic or MT Speed and Power Down (a obvious choice, to me at least). Ghost Road and Power Down give two options for MT physical debuff, Black Rain can Curse, all stat downs can be MT, Leaf and Moon Saber (usefulness balances out with the lack of a saber/resist option), even a Leaf Coat option. With her final weapon and shields, this class will be an awesome team leader. Love this one too.

This is a lot to think about. I will take some time to digest this and respond later. First impression is that Fenrir Knight will be leading my first 2.0 team. One suggestion so far - increase the spell cost of Black Rain to 10 MP? Dark element can be a liability later in the game, but that should be made up for by having a Curse option, and it gets the extra 25% for always-MT damage. It should at least cost a couple more MP than Shuriken. EDIT: It may also be fun to split Ghost Road and Demon Breath between Fenrir Knight and Dragon Master (only Evil Shaman gets both). Demon Breath would fit nicely thematically with Dragon Master as you have her.

Got it, thank you. It seems that Vanadis will end up some variety of Red Mage as well, but she should have something to distinguish her. Maybe her focus should simply be on the basic 4 elements (earth, air, water, fire), with fewer Angela-style direct damage spells but more support spells, including some saber spells to boost her final weapon? Thematically, kind of a more support-oriented version of Rune Master?

So Power Up and Mind Up can only be given one stat requirement, even if the first requirement is ST and the second is MT? Just trying to see how this works for future suggestions. Given this, I agree that putting Power Up and Mind Up at the end of their trees would kind of suck. I thought that if you knew 10 spells, you couldn't learn any subsequent upgrades.

def up, speed up, air blast as Valkyrie, then stat1: MT air blast, x, x, x, heal light stat2: power up, MT def up, x, MT power up stat3: mind up, MT speed up, x, MT mind up