praetarius5018

Final Fantasy V: Void Divergence - Discussion

247 posts in this topic

I meant in-game controls (config -> controller custom) - you can change in game which of the SNES buttons is used for what.
It may be possible you accidently assigned menu to a different button and not noticed it?

ZSNES would possibly explain it; they used some very wonky hacks back then to simulate the actual SNES hardware.
It works for about 99% of the cases though it had some random-ish bugs,
like in Star Ocean everything would work fine for me but on some map transitions (I think only 5 specific ones) the music would randomly stop (only 50% of the time) and the game would freeze after 10 seconds if I didn't get a battle in that time; weird stuff like that.

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Oh, you meant changing it there. Sorry, I didn't think about that. But that shouldn't have been the case I think. Still, I'll make sure of that next time.

I did consider zsnes could be an issue, but I don't remember having a bug like this when I played FFV originally long ago, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened either.  Regardless, just trying to spread awareness in case it was something that could happen to others.

If I get it again I'll try a few more things, or send you the save state if you want? (I wouldn't be able to save normally, lol.)

 

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Well, since I changed a lot of things in the code there'll obviously be things that weren't in the original,
so ZSNES compatibility with the original doesn't imply compatibility for ZSNES with the mod.

Also savestate wouldn't help me since they are only usable with the same type of emulator; heck I can't even load SNES9X 1.53+ savestates on SNES9X 1.52

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On 30.11.2018 at 1:46 AM, Magpie said:

!Brave -> It's great to borrow a turn now, but it's usually one of the first skill slots to go because it's more preferable to !Def and potentially get more than one extra turn eventually. It also kinda burns when the enemy gets to act between your !Brave-d turns (Byblos was a particular repeat offender).

Since the Byblos thing trips people up again and again, here now again as an "official" explanation:
Byblos counters 100% of the attacks against him.
Other bosses may do that too, but Byblos is imo the biggest offender with countering.

 

Also, since I've come to the conclusion that Monk is the 100% worst, most useless job (can only heal itself a bit and deal water damage, and that not even very well):
!Kick evolves to !Blitz

aurabolt.gif

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Oh, I get it. That's a good enough explanation.

Also that's interesting. I completely ignored monks so it'd be interesting to give them a shot with new goodies.

I'm still playing the game, even if I have little free time lately. Can't wait to see the final form of this project, seems it's gonna be worth giving it another run.

Edited by Magpie
grammar

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The changes and their amount seemed interesting and impressive, so I'm trying this hack out. 

 

The documentation mentioned void shards, so I'm giving it a go on difficulty1, but the first thing I noticed is that it makes every enemy survive mortal blows at 1 HP. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the documentation, so I'm wondering if this an intentional effect. At the moment, it feels really annoying to play around and the damage output of anyone but the sword-user (or knife vs crabs) is essentially worthless except for finishing off 1 HP enemies.

 

Also, I tried starting in NG+ right away because I was enticed by the higher level cap, but it seems that, with enemies dealing enough damage to triply overkill Bartz right off the bat, it's something to get into only much later.

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34 minutes ago, Gkybly said:

The documentation mentioned void shards, so I'm giving it a go on difficulty1, but the first thing I noticed is that it makes every enemy survive mortal blows at 1 HP. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere in the documentation, so I'm wondering if this an intentional effect. At the moment, it feels really annoying to play around and the damage output of anyone but the sword-user (or knife vs crabs) is essentially worthless except for finishing off 1 HP enemies.

Is intentional. Probably not the only thing I forgot to add somewhere.

 

35 minutes ago, Gkybly said:

Also, I tried starting in NG+ right away because I was enticed by the higher level cap, but it seems that, with enemies dealing enough damage to triply overkill Bartz right off the bat, it's something to get into only much later.

Yeah, that can only go well. NG+ strengthens enemies quite a bit; the creeps at the beginning are roughly on par stat wise with endgame enemies.

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so before this topic collects too much dust, a little status update

backbuster.gif

also, blame BlackLiquidSrw

FF5_void_divergence112.png

passives.gif

FF5_void_divergence113.png

I hope to have "1.0" ready by june.

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Woah! The new passives menu is so cool! It's like Final Fantasy VIII's ability system now. It really leaves room to build a characters kit without having to worry about passives clogging everything up. That alone makes me excited for this new update.

I know that before passives usually gave some generic command to use, like !fight or !item, I imagine this does away with that?

Also, what does Vampires !Genome command do, if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

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If you leave passive slots empty you'll get nothing in them.
Also you can't put passives into the active slots anymore; !job ability + 6 passives had too many shenanigans >.>

But if you leave an active slot unused those will still be filled with !item, etc. just to prevent smartasses from softlocking themselves too easily.

!Genome - like many other abilities at this point - is a set of 8 skills.
Those are learned by defeating specific enemy types while you have a vamp in the party (kinda like FF5a necro but less stupid and 2.5 worlds earlier available)

It'll have fun stuff like:
Absorb - deal ice magic damage and heal your party by the split of the damage
Hunter - physical attack with recoil damage
DarkCure - heal HP + some status (remember that vampire is undead so would take damage from that)
Possess - caster is removed from battle to increase all stats of target ally
Sacrifice - target ally is removed from battle to increase caster's stats

That set is accompanied by !Oath which has the same unlock method and allows you to summon certain enemies like Skeleton, Zombiedragon or Gil Turtle.

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I can't wait for more updates. I keep checking this every day (I'd post more but then it'd be a monologue here)

Being able to equip passives separately is definitely interesting. I guess there were too many good ones to try to detriment of commands.

Also, looks like there are more menu descriptions than normal? Vanilla FF5 had a terribly sparse interface so having more text in there is always great.

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I am really fascinated by the addition of passives!  How hard was it to find the space in the game to be able to do that, and for that matter everything else you've added?

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On 21.4.2019 at 4:44 AM, Magpie said:

Being able to equip passives separately is definitely interesting. I guess there were too many good ones to try to detriment of commands.

That and most of the relevant physical "passives" were innate so that made magic comparatively weaker than intended;
especially supporting abilities like !Drink and !Brave were hard to fit into.

On 21.4.2019 at 4:44 AM, Magpie said:

Also, looks like there are more menu descriptions than normal? Vanilla FF5 had a terribly sparse interface so having more text in there is always great.

In vanilla job, !ability and ability description occupied the same space; I've since moved the job texts to a different space and I still managed to run out of space for ability descriptions...

On 21.4.2019 at 6:30 AM, Aegis98 said:

I am really fascinated by the addition of passives!  How hard was it to find the space in the game to be able to do that, and for that matter everything else you've added?

Since ROM expansion is a thing, space in the ROM is abundant.
But RAM? Yeah that was an adventure, especially for the stuff that also needs to fit into your save files.
I've had to sacrifice tracking of individual jobs' ABP progress but compared to the end result that is a minor cost.

Edited by praetarius5018

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some spoilers on the new jobs (copied from discord)

Dark Knight
semi-tank that gets stronger as his HP drops.

!Dark, skillset with increased weapon tech damage by lost HP; skills are unlocked by having X HP lost
-BaneWave, hit all, recoil damage
-Taunt, all enemies, damage up, both def down; aggro up (like !Stomp)
-Darkness, hit all, power depends on number of status effects on target(s) [incl. curse!]
-Allout, drop target def(both) to 0, add lost def to target's attack (also both if dual wield)
-FoulPlay, does not use turn; 20 MP, reduce user's maxHP by 1/8 (min 100), 37 power attack with chance to poison
-Curse, same as from !Black
-Oblivion, user loses 5 STR/AGL/VIT/MAG, 150 power single target attack
-Enchant, select one enemy (or ally), add spellblade of target's weakness (one of them) to self, does consume turn

 

Vampire
undead healer/supporter
unlocks his skills by beating specific monster types

!Genome
-Absorb, (already unlocked), Sylph effect (drain to party), ice one/all
-Hunter, all, physical damage, can poison, recoil damage
-DarkCure, HP+status heal, still hurts undead
-EvilKiss, steal 2 STR/AGL/VIT/MAG, not below half
-Entice, charm
-Control, !control monster
-Possess, exile self to boost target ally (add base stats/2)
-Sacrifice, exile target ally to boost self (add base stats/2)

!Oath
-Skeleton, summon skeleton, earth phys damage, increase "golem" ward slightly
-Lamia, summon Lamia, bolt damage + STR down
-Z-Dragon, summon Archaesaur with poison breath
-DarkMage, summon DarkMage, ice damage + paralyze
-Unknown, summon Unknown to spit acid, water damage with HP leak
-Flayer, summon MindMage, all, fire def piercing magic
-Siren, summon Siren#2, all wind damage + mute
-Gil T., summon GilTurtle, void-type quake

Edited by praetarius5018

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so not only will there be some new jobs next update, but some old ones will get some love as well, e.g.:

Dragoon
!Drag-on (replaces !Lance), skills with a 0.3 turn delay; unlock by maxHP
-Crescent, hit-all physical
-Lancet, HP drain
-F.Breath, fire breath attack on all enemies
-Cold Air, ice breath attack on all enemies
-Storm B., wind breath attack on all enemies
-Roar, inflict mute
-Barrier, inflict a buff on ally that reduces "variable" damage at cost of MP; max 10 MP, 3% reduction per MP
-Sky Born, self-buff, jump damage increase x1.25

 

Thief
!Rogue, skills unlock by successful steals
-Steal, obviously -HP or GP, 50% chance to get Gil, 50% for HP drain
-Dust, inflict blind
-Con Job, inflict confuse
-David, more damage if target has more HP than user (90 power, +1 per 64 HP deficit, max 170 power)
-Raid, 75 power attack, consumes up to 90 MP, power increases by 2 per MP (max 255)
-Buy Off, !GilToss but single target
-Bribe, pay money (25% target ally maxHP), target ally becomes aggro target (as if they'd used Stomp or Taunt)

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Magus
!Taboo, unlock with number of slain enemies, except for Unleash which is unlocked by plot
-Blast, one/all, spell but uses element of weapon
-VoidBolt, one, void elemental "flare"
-Swamp, set terrain to 5/5 poison and give *everyone* "half" HP leak until end of battle (stackable with regular HP leak, doubled against targets weak to poison)
-Unleash, summon Gilgamesh, slash all enemies with a sword; 25% chance to do 1 damage (excalipoor), 25% chance to deal 9999 damage, 50% chance for "normal" void-type physical spell damage; also changes battle theme
-SickMark, taken damage is increased based on status damage (+33% at 200 status damage)
-Sap Mark, given and taken non-fixed damage is reduced by 20%
-LifeMark, if killed (or loses LP) while that LifeMark is active, player party gets healed by 1/8 of victim's maxHP
-Chain M., attacking the target over and over leads to increasing damage (max at 200 hits); if the target acts, bonus resets to 0 (basically a combo system)

only one mark can be active at the same time on a unit

 

Mime
!Mimic, all unlocked from the start
-Encore, regular mimic, except X-Magic only gets first spell mimiced
-Imitate, one, like !Time/Echo copy one recent enemy spell
-Image, one, 1x image
-Bore, one/all, inflict sleep
-Bad Act, all, inflict confuse
-Astonish, one, inflict mute
-Curtain, one, heal status effects
-Assist, one, 100 MP

Edited by praetarius5018

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Sage
!Meta, modify spells, does not consume turn, kinda like spellblade for magic; unlocked based on number of known spells (white, black, time, summon, blue)
-Burst, increases magic hit cap from 130 to 160 and accuracy for magic dmg by +7
-Hammer, spells that target m.def instead target p.def and gain +12.5% power
-Blast, enable multitarget, same as passive ability
-Needles, semi fixed-damage spell (def=0, M=constant) [imitate Lv25, 45Mag vs 100m.def]
-Plague, spelldamage also adds +10 status damage
-Flash, ignore reflect
-Intense, add one extra field icon, does not stack with heavy status
-Nova, reduce MT penalty by 33% (if it is x0.25/-75% -> x0.5/-50%), stacks with/applied after AreaCast


in addition the sage has !Yin and !Yang; using spells of one type weakens that category and strengthens the other; differences is tracked in a Yin-Yang score which goes up to +/-10 and shifts per target


!Yin, unlock by number of known white magic spells
-Cyclone, one, wind damage
-Whirl, one, water + HP leak (like Time/Bleed)
-Stone, one, stalactite animation, earth
-Inferno, one, fire
-Vivify, one, cure HP; if score 2+ in favor also clear some status, at +5 it can revive
-Morph, one, toggle toad
-Syphon, one, bolt type, MP drain (deal HP damage and recover MP)
-Ultima, one, void, 60 MP, spell damage based on number of collected white, black, time, summon and blue spells (maxes at 200 power for 99 spells)


!Yang, unlock by number of known black magic spells
-Crystal, one, ice
-Plasma, one, bolt
-Scourge, one, poison damage, def pierce
-Fade, one, holy
-De-Guard, one, def down
-Undo, one, x-zone like death
-Freeze, one, inflict stop
-Paradox, one, turns target's Yin-Yang score upside down (e.g. +5 becomes -5)

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So, if I'm understanding the Yin-Yang mechanic here correctly, every time I use a white spell my Yin abilities will become weaker while my Yang abilities will become stronger.  Is that correct, or have I made a mistake?  And is the Yin-Yang score reset to zero at the start of each fight or is it carried from one fight to the next?

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The white/black spells are only used for unlocking yin and yang spells.
The Yin-Yang score is specifically for the spells from the !Yin and !Yang sets and does not affect any spells outside of them.

The meter goes like this (subject to change):
15 20 30 38 47 55 63 72 81 90 100 110 115 119 122 125 127 129 131 133 135

You start each battle with both at 100.
If you use one of the sets, that's score goes one element to the left and the other one to the right per target - so if you use a multitarget !Yin spell against 8 targets you move the score for !Yin 8 to the left and for !Yang 8 to the right.

The number you have while calculating the current target's damage modifies the spell power or accuracy.
Example:
you cast !Yang/Crystal on 5 enemies; the first enemy takes 300 damage (100% of its spellpower), the second 270 (90%), third 243, forth 216, fifth 189.
Next turn you cast a single target !Yin/Cyclone, it will then have 125% of its regular power.

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Knight re-work
!Valor instead of !Guard, !Valor upgrades Def. command from 25% dmg reduction to 50%; skills are unlocked by having X more victories than (4x) escapes
-WideShld, party, the elemental one time shield from arcanist
-Taunt, all, same as DK's Taunt (def down, atk up, aggro)
-Bash, one, phys. damage, p.def increases damage
-Servitude, one, knock ally into crit HP, user gains Cover innate
-Funeral, one, damage up per number of dead allies (20 -> 125 -> 180 -> 255)
-Patience, one, increase maxMP by caster's VIT+20, caps at 600 instead of 500
-Ironclad, self, add m.def/2 to p.def, m.def = 0
-Fortress, self, 99 MP cost, caster gains "heavy" type

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I've been going through this thread looking at all the new updates to the old jobs and your newer ones, it looks so awesome! I also saw that you are reworking Monk. I would have asked about that in particular, but I never noticed it before.

I guess my only questions this time around are what stats affect the abilities? Is it obvious, like !Valor and !Drag-On commands being affected by the strength and weapon attack stats? Does anything use agility or vitality like !Blitz and !Rogue? I'm not asking for specifics because that's a bit much to ask, just for a general idea.

I'm also very interested in retrying a single job playthrough, what with all the new changes. Last time I did that was when the Tinker was added. I made a full party of Tinkerers and wanted to see how busted it could be with infinite items being a thing, but the attack item option was constrained to just bombs, I think. Bomb's damage was limited to 1250 or so with a full stack and even with recycle there was a one turn cooldown. Not to mention bombs hit random targets and could miss altogether, so I killed that playthrough by the second world. Tinker was amazing in the first world though, mostly...

 

 

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I thought I had done the Monk write up, seems I haven't...

Monk
!Blitz, unlocked simply by maxHP
-Kick, all, 1x unarmed damage
-Pummel, one, vit based fire magic damage; x1.5 stronger if unarmed
-AuraBolt, one, vit based holy magic damage, HP leak; x1.5 stronger if unarmed
-GaleFist, all, vit based wind damage; x1.5 stronger if unarmed
-Rush, all, vit based earth magic damage; x1.5 stronger if unarmed
-Grapple, one, inflict slow
-Kiai, one, def down
-Spirit, party, recover 30 MP each

 

Which stats are used by what skill varies a lot but all 4 have some skills, though STR and MAG are obviously the main damage stats overall.
Though technically almost everything profits from AGL because of accuracy.
VIT is more of a defense stat.

By design bombs actually only had one purpose:
to allow any team composition to beat the Puroboros (bombs) boss because you can no longer stall out their MP.
I don't really want them to have much more damage because Blue/Needles (2000 damage) wants a use too.
At that point - at least for Tinker - you should deal good damage with his other spells, Turret and HeRoBot, especially the later with HP leak.

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4 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

By design bombs actually only had one purpose:
to allow any team composition to beat the Puroboros (bombs) boss because you can no longer stall out their MP.
I don't really want them to have much more damage because Blue/Needles (2000 damage) wants a use too.
At that point - at least for Tinker - you should deal good damage with his other spells, Turret and HeRoBot, especially the later with HP leak.

Okay so I did a little speedrun to retest Tinker.

I see now what I was doing wrong. When I was using Tinker previously, Turret and HeRoBot did pitiful damage, so I stuck with bombs. I assumed it was due to the fact Tinker only gave Agility and HP on level up which wasn't boosting those attacks damage. I see now that around the mid 30s(levels), the character's magic attack gets high enough so that those attacks surpass bomb damage on their own. Coupled with magic and earth(?) damage boosting gear, turret actually does good damage. HeRoBot was also nice when I ran into the occasional earth resistant enemy or boss.

I also tested bombs on the Puroboros. They just wouldn't die, I guess due to bombs hitting random targets? On the other hand HeRoBot absolutely decimated that boss.

Also, when I used shock on Puroboros followed by HeRoBot, the game froze. I should have made an extra save to see how consistent that was, but I didn't give it too much thought at the time.

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Bombs, like other consumables, scale on the amount of them you have in your inventory, maybe you had too few of them to get the full effect?

I usually stack on them early on to have some sort of "insurance" for the first world if I'm rushing through, although I avoid abusing it too much to not ruin my fun. I consider it valid for grinding quickly though. IIRC 99 bombs do something like 2000? damage, enough to eliminate or seriously cripple anything that isn't a boss in the first world.

And Tinker is one of my favorite classes actually. I usually put Galuf to have a main Tinker class and it's great. Stat spread is not quite the best, but I rarely suffer much from it (for some reason the Cannon boss turrets decimate poor him in one shot every time and I'm not entirely sure why, they do seemingly percent damage to everyone else! I'm not entirely sure if it's the gear he usually has around that point giving enough of an elemental bonus to make the percent damage lethal...oh well, I always go there assuming Galuf is not gonna be too useful and let the others do the heavy lifting, no big deal IMO). I also do a thing of usually making Lenna the magic specialist and removing her item slot so she can do more magicking, and have Galuf swap his item gauge with her after using something potent (I also give him the mix skill because why not. I like item-themed specialists). Since she's not using it at all it makes for a good sink for using heavy-duty items early on, but of course it's only valid once unless you forfeit items for everyone else, which I personally don't like doing. Cuts tactical options too much.

Anyway, HeroBot is pretty useful and that HP loss makes it a great opening move. Turret is indeed a bit deceptive, you have to keep the elements in mind for it to have maximum effect. This version of FF5 seems to make equipment and elemental builds a lot more rewarding.

 

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4 hours ago, Magpie said:

Bombs, like other consumables, scale on the amount of them you have in your inventory, maybe you had too few of them to get the full effect?

Yep, I know about the whole item scaling thing. Bombs cap at 1,000 damage.

 

4 hours ago, Magpie said:

I usually stack on them early on to have some sort of "insurance" for the first world if I'm rushing through, although I avoid abusing it too much to not ruin my fun. I consider it valid for grinding quickly though. IIRC 99 bombs do something like 2000? damage, enough to eliminate or seriously cripple anything that isn't a boss in the first world.

Oh man, I had no problem spamming bombs at the beginning, especially with just a 4 Tinker playthrough. Their other abilities just weren't up to snuff till I got access to some decent magic boosting gear and levels, so I used what was at my disposal.

 

5 hours ago, Magpie said:

And Tinker is one of my favorite classes actually. I usually put Galuf to have a main Tinker class and it's great. Stat spread is not quite the best, but I rarely suffer much from it (for some reason the Cannon boss turrets decimate poor him in one shot every time and I'm not entirely sure why, they do seemingly percent damage to everyone else!

Yeah, Sol Cannon was definitely the first big wall for me. That's when I swapped out of bombs completely and grinded a bit.

I do really like Tinkers now that I've done the full playthrough with them, though. They were a little slow at the start(not referring to agility) and the healing got a little dicey at some later bosses, but they're enjoyable to use since their whole toolkit has uses.

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