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Do you have the alternate sprites for Terra & Celes? Or is that with Bauglir? Looking for Terra's cape with pants.

Updated the guide. Update includes Short section on respec at the bottom. (Focuses on high valued respecs, doesn't explain what respec is) Builds that have high value from respec are also noted as such in the main body Merged Seraph Setzer (The Bank) and stam Setzer ("$$$") into one build ("The $$$ Bank"), with simply noting that pure Seraph is an option. Merged Shiva Celes and Siren Celes into one build, noting that it is a highly variable build with respect to how its build and what it ends up looking like. General clean-up and clarification in various places Intended to include a section on Gogo, but what I did was enough work for right now.

For the record, this is what my Dice suggestion looks like. http://anydice.com/program/c2cc Be aware that both of these links do NOT contain any bonuses if (Fixed) Dice rolls dubs / trips.

Played the traditional way, like a lategame tank who attacks with GP Toss and heals with RegenX? Not good anymore. Both GP Toss & RegenX have been nerfed - nowadays, the numbers are too low to play him like a Paladin-esque tank. Also, Slots are no longer random, so GP Toss loses one of its big advantages over magic Setzer. Also, a buff to Dice means stiffer mid-WoR competition. Lastly, I'm 90% that Daryl's Soul + Fixed Dice outputs better (long-term) average damage than GP Toss. Played as an alternative "Bank" Setzer? Probably fine. Setzer doesn't need pure Seraph ELs and Shoat's mostly useful for WoR Slots (and Cure 3, a little bit). If most of your offense is coming from Shoat, Doom, Daryl's Soul with either Daggers or Fixed Dice, and WoB Slots (Daryl's Tomb included, lulz), then Bank Setzer can work fine with either pure Seraph or Seraph/Starlet. Latter's probably better actually - Setzer doesn't need that much HP / MP to get his job done, whereas extra stamina will give him better status & magic defense, alongside the utility of a better RegenX. I've all ready got to update my Build Reference Text for information on the 1st respec. Might update the Setzer section while I'm at it.

And this is why you don't do math at midnight. I forgot that Dice have an innate x2 multiplier. 3 Dice is not needed. Rather, you need to do two things. Change the odds of getting individual numbers such that 5 and 6 have a higher chance then 1-4. (I used 1/4 for D5 and D6, and 1/8 for the D1-D4). The multiplier gets doubled on doubles (dubs). That should be enough to make Dice useful without being op. Course, it still needs testing to insure I didn't make a mistake or that FFVI isn't being FFVI.

Right, there was some discussion in chat on how to balance Dice, which happened because X-Fight was going to finally receive it's damage penalty (it currently doesn't) so Setzer would need some better sources of X-Fight damage, all of which is happening because of Anima breaking the game with Shadow and X-Fight. Such a change will hurt Setzer's Avenger / Man Eater output, and while something needs to be done about that, that's not why I'm posting. ************* After spending time with Dice until I'm sick out the wazoo, I've found that there is no way to get Dice doing halfway decent damage with just two Dice. Double damage on same dice rolls (dubs) ain't doing it, equal chances of all sides ain't doing it, heck, even a higher chance of a 5 or 6 on a roll then 1-4 ain't doing it. Nada. Zip. Zilch. The average multiplier Setzer gets for any of this is just too low to be useful. So, before I go to bed, and to avoid this getting lost in chat: the Dice need to roll 3 dice, just like Fixed Dice rolls 3 dice, if it wants any chance whatsoever of being useful. We'll have to figure out what penalties it receives to avoid being op early on.

What you said is exactly what I was thinking of anyways. : )

Esper Equips is outside the scope of this guide, since they aren't actually part of "building" a build itself. I did include some instances where I thought a particular Esper Equip was critical or particulary powerful (Phoenix Equip). I'm going to need to update this again after 1.8.5 - I haven't finished a whole game for almost a year, I do believe. I've been stubborn about keeping the reference guide about creating builds without respec. Primarily because I feel like respec can lead to instances where the player simply does what's "best" at a given point in time, instead of enjoying each build for what its worth. (Looking at you, Cyan!) However, I will concede - the first respec is indeed cheap. I will include information on planned respecs.

As far as Gogo is concerned, I really only know of two, maybe three things. Support: Give Gogo Magic, Lore, & Throw, put him on a team such that he gets good magics, have him run party support. Tools is also an option here. Glass Cannon: Rod + Dragon Rage. ???: Celes' Special Move. Clears randoms. Unfortunately, it doesn't pair with the Rod Cannon above. Blitz & Bushido might have some cute, niche applications with Chakra, Empowerer, Dragon, and Cleave. (??? above could also pair with Bushido). Maybe, I don't really know. Anyone else got ideas on Gogo?

Holy cripes, berserk stam Terra was doing 8.5k damage with Omega. What a freak.

Finished IMF. Used Cyan & Sabin. Cyan took over healing from Celes. Celes mostly supported the boys with Runic Guard and the occasional Ice, as per usual. Didn't even get a chance to hit Number 024 with an elemental. : ( Loving how fat Kirin Locke's HP is. Allows me to dual wield without worrying about how many Phoenix Downs the poor thief treasure hunter is gonna need. Had a nice fat team (Celes had the lowest HP) that made Number 024 look like a chump - easiest 024 fight I've ever had. Got some cute Golem summons on the bosses thanks to the Magic Cube. (Level 14 is the magic level to pull this off as of the current build). Raw HP and Golem win fights yet again. : )

Running through the IMF with your patch, Locke was consistently getting the first move. Didn't actually pay rigorous attention, but the turn order seemed to mostly follow the speed stats. EDIT: I'll be running spd Gau. So, whenever I get into the WoR, I'll know how this patch works with broken amounts of speed. Don't expect it to be anytime soon though.

Huh...for once, an RPG speedrun can't be glitched thru in under an hour or beaten in 4-9 hours. The BNW speedrun actually takes a good chunk of time, a time still somewhat similar to a normal run. (Mot of my runs show a 60 hour game timer, and the speedrun sounds like it's only a quarter of that).

Me likey!

I'm pretty sure the answer comes down to "It seemed like a good idea at the time."

I do think I shall use both yours and Nowea's patch.

I dislike bringing Celes to Zozo because her healing will have to be supplemented with Dried Meats anyways both because of how limited her MP is & because, IIRC, Cure is still rather weak at this point in the game; because the main problem with Dadaluma is unavoidable deaths (Spoon, Jump) and Stop (Elbow Drop) which Celes can't heal; and because she has no good damage option. Spoon ignores defense. It kills everyone, unless you're overleveled. Jump can be Defended against, which, IIRC, allows Sabin & Cyan to survive it. Elbow Drop is certainly something Celes & Edgar survive better than others, though they'll still need both healing & Remedy, just as anyone else would've needed a Phoenix Down & healing. tl;dr, Celes really isn't that great of a healer in Zozo, and she has no attack power. If you argue "Tinctures," I argue "Dried Meats > Cure". *** I was wrong on Locke though. Mug doesn't trigger counterattacks (missed that), so props for him. Shadow, yeah, Butterfly Throw spam will end Dadaluma fast. Personally think it's too expensive, but I acknowledge it's powerful.

Butterfly Throw Spam is way too expensive of a strategy. You could bring along Locke to steal Butterflies, but Locke's redundant if you have Shadow (unless he goes Healing Shiv, which...meh). You are right though, Shadow IS one of the best ways to murderate Zozo. I'm now forming the opinion that the best Zozo team, bar none, if Shadow / Gau / Edgar / Sabin. Cyan, Celes, and Locke just can't compete with the Figaro Bros., the ninja, and Rerise. (Rerise feels kinda necessary on Dadaluma in order for things to go smoothly. Spoon & Jump just deal too much damage). Shadow being op here is fine - he costs money. Not really fond of how the Figaro Bros. are heads-and-tails above the others though - this hack has been working hard to eliminate flat-out "best characters." (vig Sabin didn't get the memo though). Edgar's obvious - the two AoE blasters are just way too important at this stage in the game, when everyone's so frail. Sabin just does ridiculous damage with Poison Claws (almost as much as a Thrown Kunai, IIRC), has high HP, and most importantly, can Slow & Sap Dadaluma. Cyan's not bad for this point, he's just not one of the Figaro bros. Celes & Locke feel weak though, especially Celes. She has neither the magic nor the weapons to do anything useful except Cure, which she will run out of MP for.

Whelp, I'll no more say bad things about dual-wielded Butterflies. Hyper Shadow just tore through Zozo like a hot knife threw butter. No threat from any of the randoms whatsoever. Didn't have any spare Butterflies to throw (I'm calculating ~1500 damage from a thrown Butterfly, or did I do something wrong?), so Shadow just spammed Smoke Bombs (defends against Elbow Drop) & Dried Meat against Dadaluma. Easiest Zozo run ever. (Sabin, Edgar, & Gau all helped too). Still can't think of any particular reason for why I'd want to bring Celes to Zozo though. Anyone else got any insights? I was just proved wrong about something, I'm all ears. ***** BTW, having extra money early game has removed any desire to grind up money for the various shops prior to the Magitek Factory. Also kills the desire to steal many Phoenix Downs from Gigas in Zozo.

Don't forget that mag Edgar also has: A powerful, spammable revive Speed No waiting on a late-WoR esper for his HP (like Terrato) Also, I believe the "only ST, but stronger" Mana Battery fairs better in general team building. If there's only one MP hog on the team, than Battery is better than Chakra. Traditionally, I've only really considered X-Locke or X-Mog as big enough MP hogs to warrant MP support, and I'm guessing it's quite rare for anyone to put them both on the team. Osmose is nerfed now - dunno if that means Relm needs MP support, or if she's still manageable without. Some people like low MP builds, so I guess that could boost the number of teammates who need Chakra support instead of Battery support. ***** Flavor-wise, I like how Mantra doesn't heal Sabin. It's unique. Not every heal has to be "Heals everyone for a gazillion HP with no drawbacks, & its perfectly spammable". IIRC, for a Life Bell stam Sabin committed to spamming Mantra & Chakra, it's not bad. The problem is that it's not up to par with the standard set by Cure 2, Cure 3, RegenX, Tumbleweed, Go Fish, Holy Wind, or even just spamming Potions with a fast character. I'd take stam Sabin's Mantra over stam Mog's Forest Suite, but that's about it. The other problem is that stam Sabin doesn't do anything BUT spam Mantra & Chakra. And...well...when Mantra is the 2nd worst endgame heal, when Aurabolt is THE worst endgame damage source, and when Chakra is arguably not all that hot / too niche / outdone by Battery...you're left with a build that's "Average, but not up to par with the bar set by the rest of the cast." Iunno if it's power creep in the rest of the cast, or if stam Sabin's just weak. Oh well, I'm committed to trying out hyb Sabin at least. If Chakra doesn't turn out despite the nerfed Osmose & using X-Mog, Sabin can at least fall back on Bum Rush + Terrato ELs.

Well, I'll find out if I think Chakra's worthwhile now.

I think Gau's a more reliable healer. Stray's the common wisdom, but Fenrir Gau's got enough speed to be a solid healer too. Use whichever. In my experience, Mog doesn't make a reliable healer. Not at all. His healing dances are useful for keeping the party topped off, but they're unreliable for healing off a big attack. I'd focus on making Mog a tank or a damage dealer. You've got plenty of attacking options with mage Mog.

Interesting. Thanks. My main issue with Chakra is still that, as far as I'm concerned, in order to be worth sacrificing a good damage dealer (Bum Rush), I'd need at least two very Chakra reliant users on the team who are good enough to make up the difference, while being ineffective when they're not being fueled by Chakra. I've never been convinced that any character really needs MP support outside of X-Mog & X-Locke. With the Osmose nerf, though, Relm may be added to the list, so maybe I'll find Chakra spam more palatable. Shame to hear that Mantra still isn't too hot. Guess it still isn't even that great as a utility tool for hyb Sabin? As I'm running a hyb Sabin with some Terrato this game.

For the Narshe randoms, you'll want to turtle using NoiseBlaster. Don't try to brute force all those human enemies; counterattacks will kill you. Muddle the foes, pick them off with magic attacks (or let them pick themselves off) Runic / Cure with Celes. Bum rush the rider though, using the Demon rage with Gau; he's too strong to play games with. Kefka should be fairly simple after all of that. That's my recommended strategy at least. Gau will probably die several times against the Narshe randoms themselves. Unfortunately, IIRC, there's no real trick to avoiding that. You just have to muscle your way through it with Phoenix Downs. NoiseBlaster is your main defense for Gau. Don't remember if it works on the dog enemies though; if not, you'll just have to accept that those dog enemies are going to murder Gau. ***** Hey, BTB, spitball: what if the Knight Cape's "Guard Ally" wasn't dependent upon ally HP? Something like "Randomly Guards an ally with an ? % chance" or "Guards allies when Defending." Or even just raise the HP threshold for Wounded? Something so that "Cover" can be an actual strategy to consider, instead of just a gimmick. ***** EDIT: Whelp, I tried to DPS Ultros with Banon. Turns out, Banon only gets two auto-criticals out of the Bolt Rod. There goes my fun. ; _ ; Still, it was enough for an opening salvo of 300 swing + 800 Bolt 2.

Setzer's great as a bulky healer, who can occasionally contribute some offensive power. Even if Slots are too difficult, he can still summon Shoat for randoms or, against the appropriate enemy, can can equip Daryl's Soul + Power Glove + Man Eater / Avenger x2 for some great damage while still wearing heavy armor. Daryl's Soul + Fixed Dice is random, but for a healer, it's pretty sick. My guess is that you'd be happy if you only took enough Magic ELs to keep Cure 3 strong, and then dedicated the rest to HP/MP. Something like an even Seraph/Shoat split, or maybe even more Seraph than Shoat. I'm not a fan of Setzer's other options outside of this or Slots Spam (which takes finger skill & concentration, unlike anything else in BNW). Bio's weak, which means mag Setzer has no attacking options if Slots is too difficult. And I was very disappointed with stam Setzer in 1.7, and it doesn't look like he's changed terribly much (excepting the Starlet equip). ***** Another thing (stam) Cyan does arguably better than others is provide a solid mid-game tank (Magitek Factory thru early WoR). Figaro Bros aside, I'm not sure any other character quite has stam Cyan's combination of offense + defense in the midgame, and even Sabin's debatable on the defensive side (especially if he went the stamina route). stam Cyan does drop off offensively around endgame though, especially in 1.7 and 1.8. At least he's still rocking one of the highest HP values in the game. ***** Lookin' at the votes & what I've been thinkin' lately, starting to think that vig Sabin may be a cut above the rest of the cast. (Not a big fan of stam Sabin though, and I don't remember how many votes are there b/c of stam Sabin).