thzfunnymzn

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Posts posted by thzfunnymzn

  1. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    Stamina Sketch has been discussed many times before, and has been rejected each time. Main problem is that, come the WoR, Sketch doesn't do too much that Flare & Meteor can't do, except save on MP. And even that one is questionable, since a lot of enemies have bad Sketches.

    I pitched having caster's magic/stamina affect the strength of buffs/debuffs before. It was rejected because it would be impossible to code. Dunno if "check user's stamina for accuracy" is impossible to code, but I'm betting it probably is.

  2. Posted · Report reply

    You can still use Forest Suite & Earth Blues as solid healing / magical damage dances. He won't be the best healer, but it's free, it takes pressure of your main healer, and you have your choice of either a really powerful attack (Earth Blues) or an added Remedy effect (Forest Suite). Just stop trying to use him as a solo / primary healer.

    • Upvote 1

  4. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    With stamina affecting several unique character mechanics, Cover/Counter, and status evade, I'd say that stamina does have as much an impact on the game as vigor, magic, and speed. It's mostly Strago & Relm who don't make good use of stamina. They are poor candidates for Cover/Counter. They also either lack unique mechanics for stamina (Strago) or said mechanics aren't of major importance (Relm). Characters like Sabin or Mog may or may not make the best use of stamina, but that's less of a "stamina is a useless stat" problem and more of a "individual character balance" problem.

  5. Posted · Report reply

    IMO, from a balance perspective, stamina needs to be catch-all in order to keep up with the other stats (vigor, magic, speed). For Cover specifically, that's a defensive strategy, so it's logical for the defensive stamina builds to be better at covering the party. I'm apathetic to counter keying off of stamina though.

    I wouldn't mind stamina affecting both magical damage variance and physical damage variance. It seems more intuitive than "stamina for magical damage, vigor for physical damage."

  7. Posted · Report reply

    Please put everything into one topic. I will answer your other questions here.

    The Drill is bought in South Figaro. The mystery egg is something you'll have to PM the creators about. The Rage Belt acts as a Power Glove for Gau.

    For stamina, IMO, the major things it does is provide a higher status evade rate; raise the counter/cover rate; and occasionally strengthen an attack, heal, or unique character mechanic. The magic defense portion of stamina & the physical defense portion of vigor are insignificant. Regen ticks are strengthened just as much by HP levels as by stamina, with HP also providing a higher maximum HP to boot. Weakening poison/sap ticks, IMO, is more of a nice extra rather than any significant benefit.

    I should also mention that, of the 3 significant things that stamina does, only the status evade is truly universal. Not all characters have a stamina-based attack, heal, or unique mechanic to use. Also, not every character is in a position to actually use counter or cover. Also, the base counterattack rate is all ready ~50%, and the strength of counterattacks depends off of vigor.

    Stamina provides a lot of little stuff, certainly, but for some characters, all of those little things either don't add up to anything important and/or their basic character design just doesn't get a lot of use out of lots of stamina (excepting status evade). For example, see: stamina on Strago or Relm. (Though others will contest me on that point).

  8. Posted · Report reply

    IIRC, it's possible to program the game to understand how many of each esper has been taken. But to give it advanced logic in understanding build complexity, or even just moderate logic? Ain't happenin'. And a look-up tables of pre-defined builds & hybrids is another form of restricting the free form system. After all, whose to say that those of use deciding on the pre-defined builds to be used know all possibilities? Therefore, I believe we'll just end up with a simple class that simply states which esper you've taken the most of.

    As for how that won't interfere with the free form system, again, I think the only way is to make sure bonuses are small and fairly universal in nature. For example, you'll notice for Phoenix Terra, I simply put up the idea of "No delay on Fight command, Reduced or no delay on Magic command." Just about any Terra build that takes primarily Phoenix will benefit from this, yet its still specific enough to be tailored to why someone would take heavy Phoenix. So it works for all possible builds involving Phoenix and, in theory, non-Phoenix builds will still be possible because the Phoenix bonus doesn't work as well for non-Phoenix builds. Course, deciding on two types of bonuses like that for each possibility is a lot of work & theorycrafting.

  9. Posted · Report reply

    Thing with hybrids is that, IIRC, there's not going to be a way to code the game to understand a hybrid build. Golem + Stray on Sabin? The game will only understand "More Golem levels, so it's a Golem build." So, in this case, we have to select bonuses for the Golem build that not only work for the pure Golem build, but also for a Golem + Stray hybrid.

    One positive, one negative, while it sounds like an interesting way to prevent power creep, I'm worried will violate the "don't ruin the free form nature of builds." If a Golem Sabin gets on positive and one negative, that one negative may be fine for a pure Golem Sabin, but it will adversely affect the hybrid build. For your example, you'd be locking Maduin Terra into a "frail mage" set-up, even though Maduin + Phoenix is a real possibility for a more bulky mage set-up.

  10. Posted · Report reply

    I'm definitely in the camp of minor, flavorful buffs. Enough to help further differentiate builds, but not enough to seriously buff characters. The major areas where I introduced major buffs were on builds / classes I felt are mediocre. Which...actually is probably better handled by first fixing said build / class without resorting to class bonuses. That way, the class bonus can be kept as something small & simple yet meaningful & flavorful. So, stam Relm could just get Brush Cover without resorting to class bonuses, with her class bonuses focused more towards some minor extra stuff.

    And I am most definitely in the camp of not destroying the existing free form system. You'll also notice that, for character like Terra & Celes, who have a huge amount of possible builds, I try to keep the class bonuses fairly generic. Stuff that would contribute to all builds, yet is still unique between different "classes." This plus keeping buffs minor shouldn't interfere with the free form system, but still provide some meaningful stuff via classes.

  12. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    Spitballing Gau Ideas:

    Beastmaster: Controllable Rage. Gau doesn't fly into a berserker frenzy when selecting Rage.

    • You still cannot switch Rages. When you hit "Rage" again, you just trigger the next attack in the Rage you all ready selected.
    • Green Cherry is still needed to allow switching Rage again.
    • This bonus allows Gau access to spot healing (Item/Regen) and some buffs/debuffs (HasteX) while Raging.

    Berserker: Rage Counterattack. Gau now counterattacks with his actual Rage command, instead of his measly Fight. Still subject to 2/3 and 1/3 odds for the two attacks. Being on the non-stamina Gau helps control the power of this bonus.

    ************

    Unfortunately, both these ideas are powerful & game-changing, which is something I tried to avoid with my suggestions. Rage Counterattack is definitely op with Rage as it currently is (see: Hurtmore counterattack). Still, it's another idea on the table.

    EDIT: Last idea for determining class is to just do a straight "Whichever esper has the most ELs, that's your class. If two espers are tied, whichever one got there first determines class." Boom, simple. Flows perfectly with the mechanics, doesn't arbitrarily punish or reward certain builds, doesn't require any new events.

    • Upvote 1

  13. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    OK, rough draft of class ideas in. Every class gets two bonuses.

    Before we start, may I point out that "No class until 10 in a given esper" is....not the best idea for BNW? Some classes gain 10 in a given esper early (vig Sabin), while other classes will take a while to get 10 in a given esper (healer/mage Terra). This hurts the fluidity of builds, forcing the player to aim straight for 10 in one esper to get their bonus before branching out, even though that's rarely a wise idea.

    More appropriately, I'd say that

    • For WoB, 5 in any given esper qualifies as a class
    • For mid-WoR, ? in any given esper qualifies as a class (somewhere between 5-10)
    • For end-WoR, 10-12 in a given esper qualifies as a class

    What exact formula / mechanic / programming is used is up for debate. I'm giving a rough estimate. You really need class to take into account the ratio of any given esper to the total amount of ELs taken. That way, you're not "forced" to take 10 of single esper early, since the game will generally reward you with a class just for taking your natural specialization.

    That said:
     

    Spoiler

     

    Terra
    Mage (Base)
    Battlemage (Bismark)  ---  Morph delay is shorter; Break and Storm cast faster
         QuickMorph is good, but I heavily advocate for an Image nerf if this is to be done. Let terra fall down a lot & then pick herself back up again quickly. I've seen at least one or two others comment that Image could get dropped down to 1/2 chance of staying up. I also advocate for making Smoke Bombs much more expensive, and for making Refract cost a good bit more MP. It's a powerful buff, 100 GP or 15 MP undersells it.

         Quickcast: Break/Storm is unfitting for Battlemage. She never uses those moves. Battlemage Terra will either use the tier-3's to snipe an element (like Atma), or she'll use Cure/Life for healing. Quickcast: Break/Storm is something to give to caster Terra.

         Alternatively, find a second bonus for Battlemage Terra? 11 Phoenix, 9 Bismark for Terra is a very real Red Mage build and it seems like that build should be getting quickcast of some spells, maybe even quickfight. After all, the whole point of such a build is to have a fighter Terra with globs of MP for healing & elemental sniping. That, & quickcast + quickfight fits the "Red Mage" theme.

    Black Mage (Maduin)  ---  MP+25%; all Fire/Ice/Bolt spells & Ultima cast faster
         MP+25% is....meaningless. If Terra's building magic, she's just going to take the Magic Cube or Circlet anyways. Maybe slightly useful for the WoR if she's built up enough Carbunkl, but then you run into the question of wheth
    er or not you even get the Black Mage class (See intro comments above). Axe this one.

         Quickcast: Tier-3's and Ultima is a way to go, but I'd add Break/Storm to the list. After all, its a caster Terra who uses midgame Break/Storm. Honestly, quickcast: Break/Storm is a little more important then Tier-3's, since those are good enough anyways. Quickcast: Fire2 is pointless.

         I still recommend a magical damage plus for Black Mage Terra. MP Turbo, a boring Magic+10 to her stat, something. One of Maduin terra's biggest problems is that Maduin is poor magic esper. He's a hybrid esper. So magic Terra generally only ends up with a small amount of magic, since she also wants Unicorn & Carbunkl levels. Some way to boost that, so that the player actually feels stronger with magic, is desirable. Quickcast: all black magic is a way to go about that, I supposed, though I think something like "MP Turbo when Morph" is more interesting?

         And....if I'm on the subject of caster Terra having poor espers, I'll spitball the idea of

    • Tritoch: Magic+1 / MP+15
    • Maduin: Stamina+2

         There, proper magic esper for Terra. Late coming, but Tritoch, the esper that started the game, giving Terra her premier caster build? Fitting. Daddy helping her control her esper self better? Fitting. Tritoch is also Terra only, so this doesn't create a "house of cards falling down" effect. Doesn't sacrifice stam Terra, and even revives the long-dead stam+2 Mog, which can be used to create for more interesting Geomancer stuff. Heavy Maduin's generally not a good idea in the WoB anyways, so it's not like anything is lost this way. The only oddity is early stam Terra and late mag Terra, but with stamina getting Cover/Counter, maybe early stam Terra has some uses?

         Course, with that idea above, MP Turbo is no longer needed. Just stick with Quickcast: Black Magic.

    White Mage (Unicorn)  ---  HP+25%; all Cure and Life spells cast faster
         Axe the HP+25%. Why is an HP build getting a free Red Cap effect? Replace with "Ignores Reflect". Terra's the best candidate for such a bonus (Carbunkl summon & Cures). Just as importantly, it's less of a buff (to an all ready good build), and more of expanding her options. White Mage Terra is a strong build, she doesn't need big buffs.

         Quickcast: Cure/Life is neat, though I recommend it more for Phoenix Terra. For reasons stated in the Battlemage section, and in the Red Mage section.

    Omega Mage (Tritoch) ---  Regen MP while morphed; Remedy and Regen spells cast faster
         MP Regen for Omega Mage....I guess? Is her MP that big of a concern? Mishrak's one to ask though. Being fair, though, it's not bad. Might actually be fine, just a fairly minor buff to a build that mostly doesn't care to much for MP.

         Faster Remedy & Regen(X) is fine & appropriate.

    Red Mage (Phoenix) ---  HP/MP+12.5%; Cure (1-2), Fire (1-2), and Life (1) cast faster
         For the former, I'm going to say to replace it with Quickfight. 11 Phoenix, 9 Bismark is a real possibility, and Quickfight is decent consolation for not getting Quickmorph. Also, Red Mage is Fight + Magic, so you want a bonus to Fight and Magic. Not a bonus to bulk & Magic.

         That, and I think the HP/MP+ is unfitting.

         Quickcast is neat, but you should not force a match between Terra & Locke here. They're separate characters who use their magic differently, there will be differences. Quickcast: Life or Fire 2 is solid for X-Mage Locke, but for a lategame Terra (Phoenix is lategame)? They're pointless. I'd say just give her Quickcast: Cure/Life. If you're really concerned about Quickcast of Cure3/Life2, then have it only reduce the cast time to $10. That way, both Quickfight & Quickcast are just taking off a small $10 delay. It's not much, but it's still useful, and Phoenix is an all around solid esper anyways.

    Carbunkl
             You can leave Ragnarok & Bahamut alone, but Carbunkl should have a class bonus. As others have also said, I hate the idea of the class system being used to straight-jacket what was once a free form system, where new things could be discovered. Despite me being the poster child for "OCD build balance, running the build guide", I'm not going to asume that the builds I've put up are the be-all, end-all. I know other veterans are different.

         Just as importantly, a 12 Carbunkl build isn't completely pointless. +300 MP has it's uses for "My magic is ultra expensive" Terra, especially with Maduin being a rather poor magic esper. +300 MP means Terra can ignore Circlet, maybe just grab a Red Cap or Stat Stick, and still have 800 - 999 MP for nuking stuff.

         Furthermore, if you say "Carbunkl Terra is stupid", I retort that Ifrit Locke is stupid. Yet you gave him a class.

         For the sake of not straight-jacketing the once free-form build system, for the completion's sake, for the sake of this not actually being a completely stupid idea (Bismark/Tritoch is stupid; Carbunkl has some purpose), and for the sake of this esper being the other key esper of mag Terra, please give Carbunkl actual bonuses.

         (Granted, my argument does become a lot weaker if you take my suggestion above of turning Tritoch into Terra's primary magic esper, with a bonus of Magic +1 / MP+15. If you don't do that, my argument stands. If you do do that, I'd still do it for completion's sake).

    Celes
    General (Base)
    Holy Knight (Ramuh)  ---  HP+25%; all Swords get some kind of bonus(?)
         Again, dislike the HP+25%. I could maybe get behind an HP+12.5%. That way, Hero Ring still has a point, but she's still getting a minor HP buff.

         All weapons getting a bonus, I agree. "Two-Hand is 75%"....is exactly the kind of small bonus we want, but unfortunately, Celes never gained two-handed weapons aside from Excalibur. It's also not a general benefit, it locks her into specific gear set-ups. Only idea I have here is Quickfight. Coupled with HP+12.5%, it's two nice, small buffs. Oh, and it's a callback to WT's vig/spd Celes. <_<

    Dark Knight (Phantom)  ---  No dual-wield damage penalty; Merton and Demi/Quartr cast faster
         Unfortunately, I think only Setzer can safely be given the "No dual-wield penalty." Even without Morph or self Berserk, no dw penalty is still a mighty 33% multiplier to dual-wielding Celes. Illumina/Wing Edge would be doing a minimum of 5.5k - 6k damage. Add on Holy procs and Wing Edge Throws, and Celes is suddenly out-damaging Morph Terra even without Berserk.

         What happened to Runic: Counterattack? That seemed flavorful. It's minor, sure, but it's solid, and it gives Dark Knight Celes some reason to actually, you know, not equip the Leo's Crest?

         Quickcast: Merton/Demi/Quartr seems arbitrary. Why? What purpose does she have quickcasting those spells? Give her Quickcast: Remedy/Regen.

    Valkyrie (Crusader)  ---  Inherent Cover; Safe and Haste cast faster
         Quickcast of Grey Magic is fair enough for a support build, though then the question is "Valkyrie or Crusader" for quickcast: grey magic.

         Inherent Cover....is kinda redundant with Leo's Crest, Knight Cape, and Hero Ring. Especially the last of those, which sounds like quite the important relic for this build. Why not something like "Cover: single-target Magic attacks"?

         A Runic bonus is another idea. I'd recommend either Valkyrie or Magic Knight for "Friendly Runic" (ignores ally spells). Huge convenience for....people like me. >_> Though I'd personally want it on Magic Knight, so that "Friendly Runic" is available for most of the game, instead of only endgame.

    Vanguard (Alexandr)  ---  Inherent Counter; Life and Regen spells cast faster
         What happened to "Can Counter ANY attack?" That seemed a lot neater than "Free Black Belt / Leo's Crest / Zantetsuken". Maybe give Vanguard the "Can Cover single-target spells" instead? She's got the HP to face tank a Flare. This creates an actual reason to build mass Alexander. Maybe not the greatest of reasons, but an actual reason. Cyan/Celes do not have to get exactly the same bonus.

         Quickcast: white magic is fair enough, I suppose. Not inspired, but not bad.

    Magic Knight (Siren)  ---  Runic restores 2x MP; all Ice & Bolt spells cast faster
         Why not Quickcast: Grey Magic? Let Siren by the utility mage, let Shiva be the offensive mage. Celes' grey magic has the downside of only being single-target (no HasteX or otherwise). This gives a nice speed buff to said spells. Quickcast: white magic can be ignored, since Siren Celes has the speed for quickcasting Cure and Life. Quickcast of Rerise is more questionable, but that's a powerful enough buff that I say leave it one of Celes' weaker classes.

    Holy Mage (Shiva)  ---  MP+25%; Holy, Merton, and all Cure spells cast faster
         How about just Quickcast: all black magic? Let Shiva be the offensive mage, let Siren by the utility mage.

         Again, don't do MP+25%. It'll just get overwritten by Magic Cube or Circlet, or be redundant with Hero Ring or Red Cap.

    Cleric (Seraph) ---  HP+25%; Rerise, Remedy, and all Cure spells cast faster
         Again, no HP+25%. HP+12.5%, maybe, though Cleric Celes is gonna be bulky anyways. Stil, maybe?

         Quickcast: white magic seems fine. Just be very cautious about quickcasting of Rerise though. That's....a really powerful buff. Rerise all ready wins fights. (Raise MP cost of Rerise/Seraph?)

         Something to consider with Seraph is that Seraph can be paired with any other esper here. 11 Seraph, 9 Ramuh? 11 Seraph, 9 Crusader? 11 Seraph, 9 Siren? All possibilities. So, Cleric Celes needs the most general bonuses possible. Bonuses that any of her "secondary espers" can make use of. What you have kinda fits that critera, though HP+ is op.

    Locke
    Rogue (Base)
    Fighter (Ramuh)  ---  Critical Attack rate up; all Swords get some kind of bonus(?)
         I feel bad for criticizing your Te/Ce ideas so heavily, so I'm going to say: I love crit+ for fighter Locke.

         I have no idea what kind of other bonus to give to vig Locke. Sorry. Just don't forget about daggers and knives.

    Paladin (Kirin) ---  All Shields get some kind of bonus(?); Cure (1-2) cast faster
        

    Thief (Ifrit)  ---  Steal always succeeds; Drain and all Bolt spells cast faster
         (You did Ifrit Locke with Steal bonuses. You have no excuse to not do Carbunkl Terra/Strago).

         According to Nowea, the point of a heavy Ifrit Locke is for speedy heals/revives. I'd add in that it's Locke's best build for quickly tossing a Remedy Item. I'd tailor the bonuses for Thief Locke around that. To further what he said, I could see 11 Ifrit:9 Phoenix being a real build to pursue. 11 Ifrit, 4 Phoenix, 5 Ramuh or Kirin? 11 Ifrit:9 Ramuh? 11 Ifrit:9 Kirin? I have a harder time seeing these ones. (Maybe the Ifrit:Ramuh?). But I can definitely see the purpose of an 11 Ifrit:9 Phoenix build. So, at the least, you should consider class bonuses that complement caster Locke, yet are different from his Phoenix bonuses.

         If you're going to do a Steal bonus, do something like "Higher chance of rare steal" (not 100% chance. Just a small improvement to the odds). Doing this interferes with the whole "You build speed to improve Steal's odds" mechanic. Alternatively, do something that makes Steal/Mug more viable in combat?

         Quickcast: Bolt is....interesting? Quickcast of Bolt 2 I guess becomes a real damage option for this build, though it requires a lot of Phoenix for the MP?

    Red Mage (Phoenix) ---  HP/MP+12.5%; Cure (1-2), Fire (1-2), and Life (1) cast faster
         Quickcasting of these spells works for Locke.

         Axe the HP/MP+ though. Phoenix Locke is a giant blob of HP/MP as is. Replace with Quickfight. Like with Terra, 11 Phoenix:9 Ramuh is a real possibility for Locke. Quickfight & Quickcast: tier1/2 spells is exactly the kind of thing the works for him. Heck, even a pure Phoenix Locke could make use of a Quickfight. Like, say, using Valiance to quickly off a Charmed ally in the Isis fight.

    Edgar
    Engineer (Base)
         By the way, perhaps Golem & Unicorn should switch build names? Sentinels are guardians, which is exactly what Unicorn Edgar's main gimmick is. Phalanx seems like it'd fit more with Golem, since that's more the traditional "tank" Edgar.

    Alchemist (Siren)  ---  Status-setting attacks/spells ignore enemy stamina; gain elemental resistance from equipped weapons
         Huh? These are interesting & thematic. Elemental resist kinda encourages equipment of Elemental Blades even into the lategame. That's neat.

         Perfect status setting edgar scares me. On the other hand, I'm very glad to have some way of increasing the accuracy of status effects. Aren't most of Edgar's statuses single target instead of AoE? BioBlaster (Poison) and Flash (Blind) I don't think are too bad. Perfect accuracy SlowX seems like a nifty tool. Added accuracy to NoiseBlaster is concerning though.

         Maybe nerf the NoiseBlaster's base accuracy? That way, if you really want to Muddle control randoms, you need to build Alchemist Edgar? Edgar's got a lot of powerful options that work regardless of his build. Making more of his options actually require specialization to work well would go far to balancing Edgar. Make it so that vig Edgar can't control randoms with AoE status as well, he has to rely more on ST status or AutoCrossbow.

    Sentinel (Golem)  ---  Inherent Counter; Tools delay is shorter
         I asked for Quicktools, I had better support it. >_> Yeah, this solidifies Golem Edgar as the "grounded" vig Edgar. Shouldn't interfere too badly with Alchemist Edgar, since that one has speed & magic. (And if instaTools is op, it could just be $10 Tools).

         Inherent Counter here is....a case where it's not bad. Edgar doesn't generally equip the Black Belt, leaving only the Zantetsuken for some lategame counters. (And I don't mind overriding this portion of Zant, since its vig+/spd+ is still important utility for Sentinel Edgar). This also works well with the counter/cover spears, though he'll have reduced odds.

    Phalanx (Unicorn)  ---  All Shields get some kind of bonus(?); Safe and Slow spells cast faster
         Dunno what shield bonus you could give, though I could get behind the idea. I know that, personally, I'm looking at two-handed Unicorn Edgar more, to help make up for the damage loss from not being Golem. Having a reason to equip shields could help.

         'Nother thing that could help is having something like +6%, +9%, or +12% cover rate. That's this build's gimmick, but Unicorn Edgar still doesn't exactly have a large cover rate. Also still leaves him with status vulnerabilities from his low stamina.

         Neutral to Quickcast: Safe/Slow. Personally would rather the above stuff primarily.

         Actually, it's probably a good idea to let the community playtest Unicorn Edgar before finalizing any class bonus ideas. >_> Still, I'll leave what I have up there.

    Dragoon (Palidor) ---  Two-handed damage bonus is 75% instead of 50%; Haste and Float spells cast faster
         I love the two-handed bonus idea. It's a small but useful bonus.

         Quickcast: Haste/Float, I'm neutral towards. Quickcast of grey magic is definitely something that works somewhere for Edgar, and Dragoon Edgar isn't pure dps. He will be spending some time running support.

    Sabin
    Monk (Base)
    Shaman (Stray) -     AKA "Stam-WOW" Sabin  ---  HP Regen rate is doubled; gain elemental resistance from equipped weapons
         Solidify Shaman Sabin, I can dig that. Especially love the doubling HP regen rate.

    Godhand (Golem) - AKA "Slap-Chop" Sabin  ---  Critical Attack Rate Up; Blitz delay is shorter
         I can dig this. Small but useful buffs.

    Guardian (Terrato) - AKA "Schticky" Sabin ---  Inherent Cover; Sleep and Drain spells cast faster
         Lol, Quickcast on Sabin. Might as well let him quickcast all of his magic.

         Inherent Cover ain't too bad. Could add in what I recommended for Vanguard Celes, "Guard against st magic attacks as well." Still inherent Cover ain't bad. Dun think 11 Terrato:9 Stray Sabin necessarily wants to equip the Hero Ring/Knight Cape.

    Cyan
    Samurai (Base)
    Swordsmaster (Bismark) ---  +25% Physical Damage; Bushido delay is shorter
         Axe the physical damage +25%. Too big a buff. At most, use +12.5%.

    Templar (Kirin) ---  Inherent Cover; Cure spells cast faster
         Eh, I wouldn't use inherent Cover here. Templar Cyan is a solid build, I'd rather he be forced to take a Knight Cape if he wants to Cover allies.

         Quickcast: white magic, otoh, is something I like for Cyan. Seems like Templary Cyan is where you'd want quickcast of regen though, since he's got the stamina for it. Maybe swap? Templar gets Regen/Life, and Vanguard gets Cures?

    Vanguard (Alexandr)  ---  Inherent Counter; Life and Regen spells cast faster
         Not sure I agree with inherent counter either. It lets him counter with Mutsuno, sure, but that's it. Not sure that's really worth a class bonus. Again, "covers st magic attacks" is more in line with what you want. Put that obscene amount of HP to use. (Don't necessarily have to do that thing for all the HP+60 dudes. Just giving an idea of what to consider).

         Something to consider is 11 Alex:9 Bismark as a very real build possibility. So, again, inherent counter is probably bad. Quickcast: white is all right. Maybe swap them? Let Templar gets Regen/Life, Vanguard gets Cures?

    Shadow
    Ninja (Base)
    Assassin (Phantom) ---  Critical Attack rate up; Pre-Emtpive Attack rate up
         Me like.

    Shinobi (Fenrir) 
         I do like the idea of Back Guard here.

         People on Discord are kicking around a buff to Item. It's.........not a bad idea, but I wouldn't do it without making some Items more expensive (Tonic, Potion, Remedy, maybe Phoenix Down). Items the ST healing command, it's good at it's job, pure speed builds are definitely in the best place to abuse it, and Shadow's the only controllable character without AoE healing. Still, he's got the raw speed. Maybe Quickitem could go to someone else or something, iunno.

    Gau
    Hunter (Base)
         The character that only Nowea sems to have any idea of what to do with.

         Still throwing out my idea for having the odds of different Rage attacks be affected by stamina. Putting this idea here because maybe some ideas for class bonuses for Gau would be made clearer if that were a thing, since spd/stam would have more clear differences between them??

    Beastmaster (Stray)
    Berserker (Fenrir)

    Setzer
    Gambler (Base)
    Undertaker (Shoat)     - AKA "Slotzer" ---  No dual-wield damage penalty; Doom and Poison/Bio cast faster
         First one is solid. >_>

         Second one is just following up with more minor buffs of utility damage. Not necessarily bad, though Slots will end up being used most of the time, b/c why wouldn't you want to use the equivalent to a Meteor or StopX?

    Pilgrim (Starlet) - AKA "The Bank"(*) --- Inherent Counter; Remedy and Regen spells cast faster
         Hmm.....stam Setzer is definitely a character who feels the harshness of being unable to get three relics. He wants Heiji's, Hero Ring, and Black Belt, for GP Toss + counter/cover shenanigans with Dice. Inherent Counter or Inherent Cover both open up that as a real possibility. I'm not 100% sure on it though. My instincts don't like it for some reason, even if it doesn't sound bad analytically.

         Quickcast: Remedy & Regen(X) is fair enough.

    Cleric (Seraph) ---  HP+25%; Rerise, Remedy, and all Cure spells cast faster
         No HP+. Especially not for HP Setzer of all people.

         Quickcast: white is fair. Gives Setzer some form of speed, mostly related to his healing role. Quickcast: Rerise, again, is very powerful. Rerise all ready wins fights. (Up the MP cost of Rerise/Seraph?) Though quickcasting of Rerise is probably less op for Setzer than for Celes/Relm, simply because of the speed differentials. Maybe limit Quickcast: Rerise to Setzer only?

    Mog
    Moogle (Base)
    Druid (Shoat)  ---  Summon delay is shorter; Break, Quake, and Poison/Bio cast faster
        I feel bad about chewing you out previously still, so I'm going to actually support the "Quick Summon," despite everyone else not doing so. It might mean we actually use summons for offensive purposes for once. Also works without Sage Stone, so Druid Mog has another option besides Dance/Rod.

         I'd actually replace it with "Infinite Summon." QuickShoat probably shouldn't be a thing, whereas QuickMaduin and QuickTerrato are only good for one shot. OTOH, Infinite Shoat is meaningless, since you only ever need to cast it once per fight. OTOH, infinite Maduin & infinite Terrato open up possibility for a real summoner build. Though then there's the issue of differentiating Summoner Mog from X-Mog. So you'd have to re-work the Maduin and Terrato spells. Which isn't a bad thing. It ain't like they're being used anyways.

         Quickcast: black magic is fine. That & Summoner helps push Druid Mog more towards his Magic and away from Dance/Rod. Which....is something I've been hoping would happen for a very long time. So I'm in support of anything that pushes that.

    Geomancer (Maduin) ---  Dance always succeeds; (?)
         Again, hate "always succeed." Part of the reason for building stamina on Mog is to get Dance to succeed: handing it to me for free cheapens the whole purpose. If you absolutely must do this, axe the whole "stamina success" mechanic. Only Geomancer gets a boosted Dance rate. Druid Mog has to suffer occasional stumbles whenever he wants Snowman Jazz.

         'Nother strike against this is that switching Dances ain't really all that hot. Geomancer Mog really only needs one Dance per battle. Maybe, maybe, for a boss fight, he'll pick his one main Dance (Blues or Suite; maybe Jazz for AoE) and occasionally switch over to Desert Aria for some Image chance or Wind Song for good Sun Bath chance. Still, it ain't much. Dance........IMO, still ain't in the best of places. IMO, best deployment of Geomancer Mog would actually be a HeroRing/BlackBelt/Punisher set-up that auto-Dances one of Earth or Forest. Auto Heal/Cover party, and auto Dance/Counter attacks.

         I'll point you to my comments under Black Mage Terra, where I mentioned the idea of Tritoch being Mag+1 / MP+15 and Maduin being stam+2. Maybe pure stamina might reveal better class bonus ideas for Geomancer?

    Dragoon (Palidor)     - AKA "Mogoon" ---  Two-handed damage bonus is 75% instead of 50%; Haste and Float spells cast faster
         First is cool.

         Huh, Dragoon getting Quickcast: grey magic. Fair enough.

    Guardian (Terrato)  ---  Inherent Cover; Sleep and Drain spells cast faster
         Quickcast: Drain is pretty interesting for Guardian Mog, since he's got the HP to really do some damage with Drain. Still don't think it'll actually work out in practice.

         Again, see my comments on the other HP+60 builds. I think something more can be done for these guys. What we have now ain't the hottest.

    Strago
    Blue Mage (Base)
         Strago's actually a really hard one, methinks, since all of his builds are pretty similar to each other. "Support Mage with some nuclear options." Might indicate a balance problem with strago's chassis. I do know that I advocate for making Refract more expensive, since Image is so good of a buff. Also still advocate for a more expensive but also stronger Dark magic, since that gives Strago a real dps option, but at the cost of some serious MP burn.     Beyond that....I'm stuck.

    (Black Omen can serve as the more modest nuclear option, with a lower MP cost. I know you currently have it the other way around, but I think this way works better mechanically. Probably because Black Omen is AoE while Dark can be doublecast, so it works better with Dark being dps and Black Omen not being too op).

    EDIT: Coming back to this, I think, like Relm, we can resolve this by having Shiva Strago focus on pure offense, Zoneseek Strago focus on support, and Odin Strago focus on defense?

    Sorcerer (Zoneseek) ---  MP+25%; X-Zone, Dark, and Ice spells cast faster
         Axe the MP+. Less pointless here than for the girls, but my instinct still says its an ultimately pointless bonus.

         Quickcast: black magic is interesting. I'm....huh. Problem is that it's mostly helpful for sniping elemental weaknesses, or getting X-Zone off a little earlier for clearing randoms. And if we're talking my Dark change above, seems more like something you'd want for Shiva Strago. (Unlimited power and all that). Maybe Quickcast: grey magic for Sorcerer Strago? It might not match Relm, but again, it doesn't have to. Strago's old & experienced, Relm's young and impulsive.

         Still needs something besides Quickcast: grey magic though. Esp. since that only real benefit to that is X-Shell. Maybe Quicklore instead? Let this build be more the support mage with a nuclear option (Black Omen), while Shiva is more raw power?

    Wizard (Shiva) ---  +25% Magical Damage; Stop and Osmose spells cast faster
         Reduce magic damage bonus to just +12.5%. More modest, but still not bad.

         Again, why not let this build get the Quickcast: black magic? This is Strago's raw power build, give it the raw power tools. Let Zoneseek be the more "mixed" caster, and Sage be the pure defense.

    Sage (Odin)  ---  HP Regen rate is doubled; Lore delay is shorter
         Yes to the former. The latter, see my comments above. I think it's probably better for Zoneseek.

         This is one case where I won't fuss and scream about HP+12.5%. For....obvious reasons. You know, having made HP+15 / Stam+1 Strago a thing for WT and all. >_> Still advocate it. Might actually be better for Counter/Cover Strago than raw stamina. Also means that Odin + Shiva/Zoneseek is a real thing, ya' know. Which is helpful for such a late esper.

         Again, going by what I said above, this is Strago's defensive build. Leave the utility mage stuff (Quicklore) to Zoneseek Strago. Let this build focus on defense.

    Carbunkl
         See my argument under Terra above.

    Relm
    Pictomancer (Base)
         With the bonuses I recommended below for stam & spd Relm, it might be fitting to swap class names. spd Relm becomes "Priestess" since she's the healer Relm. stam Relm becomes "Illusionist" since she's dealing with brush gimmicks & Interceptor and whatnot.

    Sorceress (Zoneseek) ---  MP+25%; Meteor, Flare, and Fire spells cast faster
         Axe the MP+.

         Quickcast: Black magic makes sense here.

    Priestess (Starlet) - AKA "Love You Long Time" Relm ---  Summon delay is shorter; Rerise, Remedy, and Regen spells cast faster
        This is gimmicky defensive Relm. Illusionist is speedy healer Relm. Stop mistaking this build for healer Relm. : )

         Quicksummon works better for Relm than it did for Mog, certainly. But not for stam Relm. Quicksummon is Illustionist Relm's job. I've done it before with quite nice success. Thanks to her speed & MP, I caused a mass extinction of Nastidons through global warming. It was nice. Might have to nerf Bahamut to prevent spd Relm from outdamaging mag Relm's Meteor though. Or re-work Bahamut.

         Do something defensive. stam Relm can't really use counter/cover that well, she's stuck with status defense & RegenX + Black Heart. She's a gimmick build, she needs help. This is a case where HP+12.5% isn't too bad of an idea. Again, I'd let Relm actually get Interceptor without having to kill Shadow, and then give an Interceptor buff. Not damage buff, but defensive buff. Again, this is defensive Relm, except it's not working well. This build needs actual defenses, let's use class bonuses to fix that. (Oh, and free Interceptor. No killing Shadow, just remove that. Get all dreams in WoR. Because killing Shadow is stupid).

         Actually.....

         Something to consider is someone's idea of "If ally gets hit, Relm auto-heals them with Brush." Kinda like instant-Potion from FFIX, only with Relm only. The corollary is that, if she's got a Rod equipped, she smacks the enemy instead. stam Relm is gimmick Relm, brushes are gimmicks that ain't working....it's a match made in heaven. It's basically a variant of Cover, after all. So maybe Relm's chances of brush healing is stamina dependent. You don't need speed for auto-healing, so it's redundant on Illusionist Relm. That, and I dislike giving Relm's healing build (which is speed, not stamina) awesome grey magic tools.

         Let Zoneseek Relm be the black mage specialist, Illusionist Relm be the white mage specialist (that's what she is), and stam Relm be the grey mage specialist (since she's the true gimmick build).

    • stam Relm can get the "Brush Cover" for auto-healing & buff setting, plus a personal defense of some kind. Interceptor+ or HP+12.5% or something. Axe the quickcast: Remedy & RegenX. It's fitting, yeah, but stam Relm needs these other things first and foremost.
    • mag Relm gets Quickcast: black magic and something else. Attacker Relm.
    • spd Relm gets Quickcast: white magic & Quicksummon. Nerf/change Bahamut to prevent her from outdamaging mag Relm. Healer Relm with first strike utility.


    Illusionist (Ifrit) ---  Brushes may set image; (?)
         This is speedy healer Relm. stam Relm is defensive Relm. Please stop mistaking this for some sort of gimmick build. : (

         Quicksummon and Quickcast: white magic make sense here, but with all her speed, she doesn't really need it. Still, they're the only thing I can think of for this build, and they ain't bad.

     

    One thing I notice a lot is that a lot of "Quickcast: Such and Such Spell" seems arbitrarily assigned. I know it's an easy bonus to give out, but don't do it. A lot of these builds have no purpose of quickcasting the spell that you've assigned to them.

    Also, for class bonuses, you want to expand the character, open up options, or provide minor buffs to what they all ready are good at. You don't want to replace critical gear or hand out huge buffs. Do stuff like "Can Cover more types of attacks," "Damage +12.5%," etc, etc. Not "Inherent Cover" or "Free Power Glove" or "HP+25%".

    Also, HP/MP espers do not have to give the same bonus to different people. You aren't doing that with vig/mag/spd/stam espers, why do that for HP/MP espers? The characters are different, even if they're similar. Therefore, even if the buff is similar, it does not mean that it has to be the same. Case in point: Phoenix Terra vs Phoenix Locke, or Alex Celes vs. Alex Cyan.

    Lastly, there are several cases here where I think the poorly assigned class bonuses isn't your fault. It's more a problem with still not having figured out the balance / design of certain classes yet. Mostly looking at Strago, Relm, Geomancer, the HP+60 espers, possibly Gau. I got nothing for the HP espers, but I did recommend ideas for the others.

    ************************************************

    EDIT: Something I failed to consider: Is it possible to change "No dual wield penalty" into "Reduced dual wield penalty"? So, instead of no penalty, just weaken the penalty to 87.5% damage for both weapons? It ends up being the same as "Two-Handed Bonus Raised from 50% to 75%." That might not be quite so bad.

    • Upvote 2

  15. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    There's some videos on ngplus of Nakar's 1.8.6 run. He lists Cyan as someone who hard carried the run, and also commented a few times that if he really wanted to win a certain dungeon / boss, he'd be bringing Cyan along.

    18 hours ago, Deschain said:

    I actually believe if I had had Eclipse in Dragon's place, it would have made Cyan even stronger. In my playthrough, his single-target damage was already excellent, the only thing he was missing was AOE damage. I wouldn't even have really missed Dragon, because with a Power Glove equipped Cyan's Flurry was doing comparable single-target damage. My two cents is that one of three things needs to happen to Cyan:
    1) He needs to have less survivability
    2) He needs to have less BPow
    3) He needs to cover/counter less often
    #1 would work because right now, he can cover pretty much any number of attacks and be fine even with minimal gearing for survivability. If he were less innately survivable, he would need to gear more for survivability, which would nerf his damage output. #2 would work because the amount he counters would be fine if his counters didn't do so much damage. #3 would work because the amount of damage he does scales pretty absurdly with how often he counters, so if he countered less often, that wouldn't be such an issue.

    My personal opinion is that #2 is the best option. He is a retainer, so it makes sense that he is innately good at defending. If he wants to also be good at attacking, he should need to actively enhance it.

    (Note: I know cover/counter has been nerfed between RC4 (what I played) and the current beta, and it's possible that the change that covering halves evasion may have been enough to render this post moot. We will have to test to see)

    Thanks.

    One thing with lowering BPow is that, while it does hurt the counterattack damage, it also hurts the damage output of Dispatch, Flurry, & Tempest. I'm not concerned at all about Dispatch, but I'm not sure how I feel about lowering the damage output of Flurry & Tempest. You'll lose counterattack damage, sure, but how much will you really lose? My instinct & back-of-the-hand calculations say you're only losing a few hundred points of counterattack damage. [Tested current 180 Masamune vs. 150 Masamune (Kazekiri) vs. 120 Masamune (Kotetsu)].

    A small nerf won't affect his counterattack damage much at all. I was seeing only a couple hundred points at best. Also, Dragon's also there to pick up any slack on Flurry's part (for Flurry's loss of damage). So, with a minor nerf (lowering BPow by 30), nothing really changes with Cyan. You're talking a major nerf (loss of 60 or more BPow) to katana BPows, which also means a major change to Cyan's physical Bushidos. I guess you could also modify the multipliers on the physical Bushidos, so that its only the counterattack damage that gets changed. Might be odd seeing an endgame katana with only, what, 120 BPow though.

    ***

    Looking at the other options there:

    #1.....I don't know what can be done expect for weakening HP espers. Cyan's all ready got a pretty restricted set of gear anyways, most of which is all ready geared towards giving him vigor, defense, & evasion. There's also not really much you can do from a base stats perspective, not without seriously breaking the aesthetic balance. Granted, from a pure balance standpoint, weakening HP espers isn't the worst thing in the world. Highly doubt that's going to fly from a more "customer service" standpoint though. (Not really sure how much the evasion nerf is going to really affect him. Cyan isn't exactly an evade juggernaut, he more tanks through sheer HP and good armor. I guess you did gear him more for evasion than defense. I'm just guessing that you'd get the same results with a less evade, more defense set-up, in which case, the evade nerf does little. A guess on my part though).

    #3....I want to see results from more Counter/Cover builds first. It may be that many characters are op with Counter/Cover, in which case, yes, the Counter/Cover odds do need to be looked at. If it turns out to just be Cyan, only possibility here is lowering his base stamina by a significant chunk.

    ***

    The only other possibility I can think of is the late-WoB and mid-WoR enemies are underpowered, making it such that certain characters look op when they're really not. That's...I've made the claim many times before, but it's difficult for me to prove anything, beyond just "I still feel threatened in these dungeons from these randoms, and it feels like it's because of how they're designed, not from lack of experience. Whereas, these other enemies, I feel like the enemies stats/scripts just can't keep up with my character's ever increasing power/bulk/options."

    I have....weak...evidence...towards my claim in that you didn't find Cyan to be op in Kefka's Tower. I guess I should ask: which dungeons, aside from the FC, did you bring him in? If he still felt op in a place like Gogo's Cave, then that's counter-evidence towards my claim. OTOH, if you only brought him to places like Owzer's (low p.def), Ebot's Rock, or Yeti's Cave, then I feel like the weakness of the foes there makes it difficult to determine whether or not Counter/Cover Cyan is truly op.

    EDIT: Eh, from Discord, remembering what one returning player said about the difficulty of newer versions, and from looking at it, it may just be that BNW been slowly getting easier and easier. Each new version gives new toys to characters without really strengthening the enemies. It may just be that 1.9 is finally the tipping point to where the characters are finally op in respect to their competition.

  21. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    After listening to Deschain talk about stam Cyan's obscene mid-game with Counter/Cover, watching stam Cyan hard carry Nakar in his recent playthrough, and other chats with the community, I'm posting up some ideas for nerfing stam Cyan in the mid-game.

    • Swap Eclipse & Dragon. Eclipse, the AoE, becomes Bushido 5. Dragon, the Holy-tier stamina-based attack, becomes Bushido 6.
    • Cyan's counterfishing katanas no longer give stam+. Pulling from WT, instead, his counter katanas (Masamune, Murasame, Kotetsu) give Vig+ / Spd+. His proc katanas (Mutsuno, Kazekiri, Nodachi) give Stam+ / Mag+.
    • The above also means that the Mutsuno is no longer a "perfect" weapon for Shadow to equip.

    EDIT: Another idea is to swap the BPows of the Murasame and Kazekiri, making the Kazekiri stronger. (Like Masamune and Mutsuno). That way, midgame Cyan has to choose between counter/cover or raw Bushido damage.

  24. Posted · Edited by thzfunnymzn · Report reply

    It's been a while since I played Fallen Star. I enjoyed it up until the endgame, where I got bored of grinding the Tornado Lizard and just stopped. I remember equipment juggling being a HUGE pain in the butt later in the game. Also remember the Psynergy gained from equipment being a LOT more important for damage output than psynergy gained from class. Never did pick up Risen Star.

    One thing I found when exploring Golden Sun hacking was that someone made a hack such that Psynergy spells actually GROW in power throughout the game, instead of being locked to a certain power. That seemed HUGE, though I doubt you're at all considering re-visiting these.

    Good to hear from you, Vanish Mantle.

    • Upvote 2

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