Nesouk

Mind Up and Magic Shield stack for Heal Light yes combine with Protect Earrings and the Weapon that increase Heal Light and you can reach some crazy level of healing with Heal Light (My Carlie was healing around 700 with MT Heal Light with that set up). Must admit that Wanderer doesn't appeal to me most of his ability seems to situationnal, altough Half Vanish with his Final Weapon look crazy strong and he is one of the only 2 classes (other being Magus) that learn Poison Bubble the offensive Leaf Elemental spell.

Well beat him, still consider him as the worst boss fight of the mod, the gimmick is to luck base and way to much Defense (seriously how many VIT and PIE he has ? This is ridiculous 23 STR, a Saber spell of corresponding day, Power Up and Duran don't even reach 50 damage per hit (arond 120-130 for Eruption Sword), Angela with Mind Up, Mind Down, Saber of corresponding 22 INT does arond 180) which make the fight way to long.

Seems you are using the US version, last version of Punishment is for the Japanese International version (which include an option to play in english despite not being release in US originaly).

Yeah the combo of Saber + Archmage 200% weakness + Empower Anti-Magic + Mind Up and Down might make Arch Mage the ultimate random cleaner in this configuration.

Ugh I just got a softlock on Gildervine I think he was going to go into his second phase, but never got into it and so he became totally invincible, his mobs were not respawing and since he does nothing outside of Sleep Flower I can't even force a death. Anyway finally got Heal Light after Ludgar, Ludgar was tough nothing to add he is just a physical powerhouse and that's all, having Protect Up, Speed Up, Mind Up and the saber help (didn't have Anti Magic yet). Diorre's forest has some annoying ennemies (especially a lot that love to poison you and also this damn Crawlers that highly resist physical), the boss Gildervine however is probably the easiest of the game, setting all buffs, Flame Saber with Duelist (by the way giving him the Sudden upgrade is definitly the good move), then the hardest part is the mobs that spawn on the first phase, however spamming Fire Spells and Duelist's Eruptive wave (which deal over 400 to Gildervine) make short work of them, Gildervine's second phase is easy don't deal to much damage, Duran was dealing around a 100 per hit, 400 with Eruptive Wave and Angela around 300 with Fireball, so he dies rather quickly, and we get Dryad. And so now I'm convince Duelist is a late bloomer, really Aura Wave is amazing on him cast it at the beginning of a mob fight (with Sudden Upgrade to cast it faster), Power Up with Lise while your building tech bar then Eruption Wave more if you can manage to make the mobs next to each other to hit multiple of them at once to build tech bar faster. Also I don't know if it is possible but if Aura Wave give 5 TP regardless of if the Aura Wave's buff is active or not, then once Arch Mage get Aura Wave to thing could get interesting as I could build up LV3 rapidly with 2 cast of Aura Wave.

Hmm the idea cross my mind but in the end I'm not convince Necromancer would be a good for buffing, Black Curse cost a lot of MP and I assume has a longer cast time than the normal buff so not only it cost a lot of MP but I think regular buff spell would be faster to set on everyone (if Black Curse could get the sudden modifier tough that would be a different story sadly it doesn't), I think Necromance is still badass tough, Elemental sniping is definitly a thing, Black Rain looks like a very good screen cleaner and Necromancer have the Dark Saber to boost it also she get Half Vanish which is really promising against High HP monster (this fucking Knights) and bosses (despite the 320/400 cap). Also since we cover a lot of what Dragon Master can do, has anybody try Fenrir Knight ? Lamia Naga inflicting Sleep seems cool, obviously having all MT Debuff is a thing, and Moon Saber for self sustain and his Final Weapon look ridiculously good if you pair her with a caster, altough I'm not sure how do you perform counter attack I never notice any noticeable increase damage even when hitting the ennemy after right after their spell, tough Ninja Master's final weapon could allow him to trigger it by hitting weaknesses with his Jutsu (that limit Fire, Air, Water and Eath weak ennemies tough (also physical if Shuriken counts)).

INT weapon is actually suprisingly good for Riesz, since INT reduce her castime, which is quite valuable for a support character like Riesz, it is therefore interesting to raise it for her, INT weapon allow you to don't give a damn about STR and focusing on her INT and PIE for faster and stronger cast while still contributing for physical damage with her regular attack, definitly worth it while you are waiting for her final weapon. Alternatively you could go with Carlie's Sage instead of Warrior Monk, gave up on Power Up but Sage also has Leaf Saber and Mind Up, it also bring the 4 main sabers (with Paladin this give you a total of 6 out of 8 sabers, worth it for the time you are waiting Dragon Master's Final weapon), powerfull nuke with Saint Beam (which can be boost by Paladin's Saint Saber) and Dark Force, Tinkle Rain and the passive healing from her final weapon. On that subject how does Paladin's Turn Undead perform in comparaison to let say Angela's Ancient/Double Spell or Lise's Summons ?

Yeah but there is still the HP max reduction of 12.5%, which I guess like the other stack with Lunatic (which a 25% HP reduction I assume) meaning if I understand correctly you can take off a third of a boss Max HP just like that, this considerably reduce the time spend on bosses (especially Final Boss like Archdemon has over 32k IIRC so that would put him at around 21k for instance don't know about Dragon Emperor and Dark Lich tough).

I also think one other character that can truly beneficiate from Invert Armor is Kevin with both God Hand and Dervish, as a Dervish he has Def Down and Speed Down give him that armor then he get Def Up and Speed Up, Def Up being probably the most important buff of the game add to that that none of his other ability are affected by Invert Armor so he can still be a hard to kill powerhouse (while having both Moon and Leaf Saber) so basically this gives Dervish much more utility. As for God Hand the Invert armor allows him to get Power Down and Mind Up, Mind Up being the second most important Buff and Power Down being the most important Debuff (as oppose to Power Up which while nice isn't as necessary) furthermore Counter Magic with Invert armor would still allow him to reduce Magical Defense and Life Booster would allow him to reduce ennemy's max HP. OH My this sounds ridiculously good, does it works on bosses ?

AH I think you misunderstood the armor in question invert buff and debuff effect from spell cast by the one who wear the armor, for instance if I wear this armor with Carlie and cast Demon Breath instead of reducing Magic and Magic Defense it will increase it (but still do damage tough), but if let say Kevin cast Mind Up on Carlie she will get the Mind Up buff like normal, therefore in this configuration it's not recommended cause all the spell from Rogue and Evil Shaman that inflict debuff also deal damage so you effectivly hit yourself just to get a buff not viable in my opinion (also it would be a total waste on Rogue because his Speed Up is self only meaning he can't cast it at the ennemy (he can make it MT with Whitelight Ring tough) so you would get a speed down that you can only cast at your team also Rogue's debuff spell are single target only until you get his final weapon that make Land Mine MT). Yeah that Evil Shaman's final weapon looks really nice, I wonder however does the effect of this weapon stack with the Debuffs or is it like the ennemies spawn with all debuff already apply, also does it affect bosses (I assume not for the later and if both are true then that would be really OP XD). I don't think anyone will have trouble with MP in this set save for some fights thanks to Kevin's Leaf Saber, Rogue damage depending on Luck with his final weapon giving a chance to deal double damage depending on Luck with his spell (so basically crit with spell) seems interesting this way I will have to focus on Luck and PIE (to reduce cast time) and maybe INT, also Sleep Flower and Body Change for the mobs seems to be quite a lot of mobs susceptible to these. For Kevin the Final Weapon seems nice but I think I'm gonna stick with his weapons that makes his attack dependent of PIE instead of STR, this way I can completly ignore his STR and focus on his VIT (boost wolf form), INT (reduce cast time) and PIE (increase Heal Light) this way Kevin can be both a good Healer while still dishing respectable damage, and also get more resistant to tank easier.

Honnestly Hawk's Dark Class are both good I prefer Ninja Master cause higher Agility (= Stronger Jutsus/Shuriken, better Evasion and Hit Rate), higher Luck (better for Crit Build and Crit Resistance) combine with Detect (reduce ennemy's crit resistance) and of course MT Jutsus and Shuriken are very good for debuffing Random (and some multiple bosses like the Golem Machines) which was pretty valuable for me on Hard (especially considering that unlike regular stat Down Whitelight doesn't make Jutsus MT). On that note Arch Mage also goes well with Nightblade cause of Aura Wave. For Death Hand yeah I definitly think Paladin is a good pair cause of Anti-Magic, Def UP, Magic Shield (which increase Magic Defense) and Saint Saber being one of the sabers Death Hand lack, for the third member well Necromancer could work I guess, I was also thinking of Lise's Star Lancer with Armor that invert Debuff and Buff it would give every MT Debuff and Star Lancer's Marduke is a very good crowd control option thanks to Silence, I don't know if the armor that invert Buff/Debuff also affect Aura Wave and Energy Ball if not then these are still good buffs for the others, or Dragon Master could also be an interesting option (would replace Paladin by Lord then I think) especially once it get it's final weapon that make Anti-Magic propagate weakness, then you would just have to cast it and then just have to cast any Sabers Death Hand has just to get increase damage. Also while I'm on it, since I'm doing my Dragon Emperor storyline run currently and already decided the team (Duelist, Arch Mage and Vanadis), I plan to do the Dark Lich route afterward with Kevin and Carlie but I want to experiment with Light Hawk and Dark Carlie so I thought of this set up : Hawk as Rogue - Carlie as Evil Shaman - Kevin as Warrior Monk Rogue and Evil Shaman get all debuff through their abilities (Def Down with Cutter Missile, Speed Down with Landmine, Power Down with Ghost Road and Mind Down with Demon Breath) The team also get all buff (Speed Up with Rogue, Def Up with Evil Shaman and Power Up and Mind Up with Warrior Monk). Anti-Magic with Evil Shaman. Reduce Max HP option with Rogue and Evil Shaman. Heal Light with Warrior Monk, Tinkle Rain with Evil Shaman. Rogue also get MT Sleep Flower and Body Change which seems good for Crowd Control, also seems that by increasing his Luck, PIE and INT he could be a powerfull pseudo-mage (especially with his final weapon) boosting his Luck could also makes him valuable with weapon that inflict Statut Effect. This team seems promising the only thing it misses are Saber spells, having only Leaf Saber (which admitadly is a good one tough). What do you think ?

Hmmm I think the best way to use Freya would be to try to use it as the finishing blow like you make it so that Angela cast 1 or 2 spells and chain with Freya, cause if it kills the ennemies you will get the full XP, also Vanadis's final weapon allow Freya to take element of sabers for weaknesses sadly your team doesn't have Saber outside of Moon, Leaf and Dark so can't take advantage of that without using items. So anyway had to cheese Gorva by lowering the difficulty but that entirely my fault, had I realise all my team was innatly weak to Dark I would have bought Byzel's armor that remove weakness to Dark, so that team is doing well on Hard outside of that : -The Rolante invasion wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, most ennemies were manageable. -Genova is still trouble mostly cause of technical issue as sometime the game just can't handle the fight and don't let me open the fucking menu to heal, other than that Diamond Saber from Duran combine with Diamond Missile does a good job at cleaning the mobs as well as damaging Genova, the mob are troublesome tough as both Duran and Lise has FST and if the mob take their appearence they can use the LV2 FST, Duran's FST is good to clean mobs tough. -Bill and Ben really aren't that bad, the main issue is the IA sucks at staying the fuck away from them -_-, so my strat was to buffs Duran with Lise's Protect Up and Speed Up (Protect Up being mostly so Duran can survive Shadow Dive), then don't give a damn about her and then I was just doing hit and Run strat with Duran (using LV1 Tech only) while Angela was spamming magics (I was using Diamond Missile I don't know if they have an elemental weakness, I assume it would be Dark as all Ninja type ennemies are weak to Dark but I don't have dark elemental spell), when they split I just focus on one specific until it dies, if Angela get killed while casting I used Angel's Grail (I honnestly don't think a Deathless fight is possible on Hard considering if both of them focus on the same target they can melt his/her HP in a flash). -Bucca Island : Was worry that I might be short on items for this but I had enough, before the cave the worst thing are definitly the Cockabird this things can just go burn in hell, they petrify (but this isn't an issue as I off course buy the accessory that protect against petrify, cause fighting them without these is fucking suicide), they hit hard and they seriously don't want to die, outside of them the island's mob are not bad. As for the Cave Angela is true MVP, outside of Slime and the rare Necromancers EVERYTHING in this cave is weak to Dark, so you can guess this was an ultimate Evil Gate's spam throughout the all caves. Also I bought 2 Whitelight Rings on the ship, can definitly tell that Duran as Duelist and Lise as Vanadis will love getting these ^^. EDIT : So found a little way to grind money rather easily, go to Eland then trigger the night, in the first Zone of Sub-Zero field there is only one ennemy and there is quite a high chance a Papa Poto spawn, and I realise that Papa Poto have quite a good chance to give ??? Seed, just farm these and use them and you can sell each Class Change item not needed for 850 each manage to get a good amount of money this way, also bought the HP Regeneration Accessories for each character it honnestly help a bit while I'm waiting for Heal Light just have to win there and stand still a bit waiting for my character to be heal by themselves takes a long time but a good way to save items. So Bill and Ben was my last fight before Second Class change, easier than the first due to having MT Protect Up and Speed up, I just did the same thing as the first time (Lise buffs, Duran set a Diamond Saber on everyone (it was Gnome Day) then I do a hit and Run strat with him (using only regular attack and LV1 tech) while Angela spam Diamond Missile, using Angel's Grail when she fall, did that until only one remain which I solo with Duran), so get the Class Change Duelist, Arch Mage and Vanadis. Got to say Duelist rocks, my gosh using Power Up, corresponding sabers and the helm that buff LV3 Tech and his LV3 Tech can perfectly compete with Angela MT spells, I will not get Def Down sadly but I'm really excited to see how much it will reach once I get Duelist's Final weapon, also realise that all his spell (except Anti-Magic) can get the Sudden upgrade, since outside of Sabers (which mostly gonna use one per boss battle) and Aura Wave gonna be usefull for mob fights it might be interesting to get the Sudden upgrade for him (which will allow me not have to give point to INT pass the one needed to learn spells and focus on STR, VIT, PIE). As for the 3 Golem fight, buff with Thunder Saber, Def Up and Power Up then Angela and Duran did most of the job with Air Blast and Erupted Blade, still a tough fight cause they can kill the character really fast.

Pesonnaly after finishing the Archdemon storyline with Hawk and Lise, I want to try the other stories with the 2 corresponding characters in the team, so I started with the Dragon Emperor's scenario, gonna say starting with Angela on Hard is just hell, I think she is legit the worst character to start with, she is so fragile that she dies to quickly, killing anything takes forever and even after a second character join she is nothing but a burden and defeating Full Metal Hunger with her, unless maybe the partner is Kevin, I feel like it's not gonna happen for me. So I resolve to restart over with Duran since he is more Durable and hit harder than Angela the beginning is much more manageable and took Angela as the third member so at least when she join she will have one spell to actually do something usefull, so my team is Duran, Lise and Angela plan to do Duelist, Vanadis and Arch Mage (yeah I know no Heal Light before a while (LV43 minimum), judging by my previous playthrough however I think Gladiator and Sorceress are both quite efficient at killing the mobs due to Sorceress having all elemental spell with Dark Duran to boost them, and Gladiator's Full Screen Tech with Lise to buffs I think it will be tough but I can handle, for bosses even in my Star Lancer, Ninja Master and Bishop playthrough I was relying more on item to heal anyway). So recently beat Tzenker, somehow so far this is the lowest LV I reach her accross my playthroughs (beat her at LV18 so I change class but didn't get the first ability) which both worries me and reasure me (worries me cause I'm underlevel I assume, reasure me cause that a good sign about that team performance I think), so far Full Metal Hunger did go surprisingly well with only Duran and Lise manage to do a deathless fight against him on the first try, Jewel Eater was the worst boss so far Yeah I still think he is a good candidate for toughest boos of the game, his spell and special attacks are manageable but the worst really are his normal attack does a crap ton of damage for that point + Silence, and when he put Protect Up Duran and Lise damage become pathetic so only Angela was doing decent damage with her spell. For Tzenker I had a shit load of Molebear Claws, so you can guess what I did, she isn't to bad really (just have to dispel that Protect Down ASAP), then Duran and Angela are dealing a lot of damage to her so she dies quickly, the bitch manage to kill Duran just before receiving the final blow tough what a troll. EDIT : I think I definitly found the ultimate way to stupidly make a "Soft Game Over" on Hard, I don't know why the fuck I didn't check sooner, but I haven't realise that Duran's Dark Classes, Angela's Light Class and all of Lise's classes are naturally weak to Dark, as a result if you didn't buy byzel Armors that remove weaknesses then at LV24 Gorva is impossible on Hard his Evil Gate, Regular attack and Black Rain are a guaranteed one shot (not mentionning Deathspell) and since we can't go back to Byzel after beating Tzenker, then yeah I'm fucked, only way to pass the fucker is to lower the difficulty.

So Hawk and Kevin have an overall lower chance to inflict statut effect through these weapons ? Well I suppose it makes sense Kevin's regular attacks already hit like a truck no need to give him another advantage, same for Hawk especially since 3 of his final classes have mean to inflict statut effect through their abilities. By the way speaking of Kevin does anybody has a good team for Death Hand ? I never saw it mentionned is Death Hand's good ?

Well for setting statut effects, you still could use some weapons that can inflict statut effects, by the way a little off topic but regarding these kind of weapons I want to ask about Kevin and Hawk since they have an innate Double Hit with their normal attack does both hit have the same odds for inflicting statut effect as one hit of the other characters or does the odds per hit are reduce for Hawk and Kevin ? Also for Anti-Magic you can buy Specter's Eye if you really need it.

Well since you're on Normal I don't think the ennemy hits nearly as close as Hard, so Mind Up might not be as crucial as it is in Hard, I think the Sabers from Rune Master might be more interesting not only for boosting both Hawk and Angela's damage but also some bosses have a strategy relying on casting Sabers on your team so that you heal them so having a way to overwrite these seems crucial (especially the Fire God Beast) also Rune Master LV3 spells are good crowd control option once you get Rune Master's Final Weapon.

Well Yeah he can be cheese by silencing him, I just don't like cheesing bosses not that much at least, tough I might do it in future playthrough cause admitadly Dangaard is more of an annoying boss than anything else. Well for AoE Necromancer has Black Rain (which she can buff herself with Dark Saber), it's learn by boosting Agility (which is a good stat for Carlie anyway since it reduce her cast time), still has Holy Ball and also Half Vanish which is good for high HP ennemies (especially some these knight bastard that generally have a lot of HP and no weaknesses), Evil Shaman does have both Anti-Magic and Def Up as well as Lunatic, Ghost Road and Demon breath I feel that yeah on paper Evil Shaman is better but I want to give a shot to Necromancer.

Honnestly some players are making a huge deal of Anti-Magic, while I can't deny it's good, it really isn't a deal breaker unlike the lack of Def Up Ninja Master, Star Lancer and Bishop didn't have it yet I only really need it for like 3 or 4 bosses on the highest difficulty which I could perfectly by some Spectral Eyes (it's entirely different that having to buy at least 3 Bullette's Scale for each bosses or even 12 for 1 boss (fuck you Dangaard and your 4 phases)).

Hmmm... Dragon Master, Rune Master and Sage looks nice however the lack of Def Up worries me a bit on the highest difficulty, as in my playthrough with Swordmaster, Warrior Monk and Arch Mage the lack of Def Up really make a huge difference for the God Beasts, so I'd rather take Bishop for that plus Bishop isn't dependant of Whitelight Ring either in my Star Lancer, Ninja Master and Bishop team the only time I used Whitelight Ring on Bishop was against the Darkness God Beast to cast Saint Saber on everyone didn't need it otherwise. Also for Girl team power the idea cross my mind to but more with Light class Lise something like : Vanadis, Rune Master, Necromancer.

If you go Evil Shaman with Carlie then there is definitly no reason to go Arch Mage as the main ability from Arch Mage are mostly cover by Evil Shaman (Power Down, Mind Down and Anti-Magic especially), I also don't think Magus would be the best choice as Mind Up and Power Up are already cover by Kevin's Warrior Monk tough Magus has powerfull nuke with Ancient and Lunatic, I would go more toward either Grand Divina ou Rune Master : -Grand Divina would give you a second (and potentially better) Heal Light user as well as Tinkle Rain, Speed Up and also Transshape which can have it use, the Tier 1 spells of every element while it would seems strange to keep the lower tier spells in a RPG it turns out they are the best offensive spell especially for bosses cause they have a lower MP cost and faster casttime and so have a higher DPS than LV2/3 spells, also with Grand Divina's final weapon she can use the Tier 1 spells to get Sabers of the corresponding element by casting them on your team. -Rune Master is more offensive than Grand Divina it would give you the 4 main elemental Sabers, and also is the only class of Angela that get access to the Tier 3 spells for Fire, Ice, Wind and Earth which are very good tool for Crowd Control as not only they deal a lot of Damage but also inflict statut effect very good for mob fight and Rune Master's final weapon make them AoE, for bosses the Sabers skill are very good and I would suggest to stick to the Tier 2 spells for better DPS.

One group I thought for Dark Lise that I wish to try was : -Lise as Dragon Master -Kevin as Warrior Monk -Carlie as Bishop You get Def Up, Power Up and Mind up with Kevin and Carlie, the Sabers and Tinkle Rain with Carlie, 2 Heal Light users, all debuff, Anti-Magic and Lunatic with Lise. There is also the Lord, Dragon Master and Magus set up but the lack of saber Spell worrying me a bit.

Since I only done 2 playthroughs (one of which I haven't finish yet) it's hard to say which class would be my favorite, but I would say Lise's Light classes are arguably the best these are the only classes that get access to all 4 main buffs Vanadis get also one of the best LV3 Tech in the game, Heal Light and Tinkle Rain while Star Lancer gets Aura Wave and Energy Ball 2 usefull offensive buffs and Marduke a very usefull AoE that can set Silence, really hard to find a situation where Light Lise isn't usefull and/or can entirely be replace. Other than Lise I had a ton of fun with Angela usually I like Mages in RPG mainly because of their versatility (which generally makes for a fun gameplay), Angela is without a doubt the best mob cleaner in the game especially her Light Classes since she can exploit all Element with them and each of her classes feels usefull in their respective way, Grand Divina for all rpgchamp said, Arch Mage brings Power Down, Mind Down, Body Change and Anti-Magic all very usefull debuffs spells and Aura Wave for offense, Rune Master brings the 4 main Sabers and the LV3 Spells which are very good for Mob fights (lot of Damage + Statut Effects) which she can make AoE and Magus can exploit all element save for Holy, has a powerfull Non-Elemental Nuke, Power Up, Mind Up, Lunatic all good stuff.

An interesting gimmick tough I admit I don't know who it would fit the most in my set up, the only character I started builded toward VIT is Galuf who sadly can't use the Lord, as Mages Lenna and Bartz it seems they would get most out of Lord from Order instead of Law, and Faris I'm building her more toward Agility and Item usage than VIT.

So continue a bit : -For the montain where you find up Hiryuu nothing really important to say random encounter are a matter of finding weaknesses, also some mobs drop Whip which will be usefull. Magissa and Forza were easy enough, I even manage to beat Magissa before she summoned Forza once as suprinsigly she isn't heavy type and the Whips can stunned here, weakness to light also make her easy to Mute reducind her offensive capacity, Forza is a powerhouse but I was able to keep up with his damage dealing damage with Spells and Taunting him wih my knight. -I defeated Shiva before going to the Water Crystal, we can steal Mythril Swords from the Gallant before fighting her which help as they are Fire Elemental, for Shiva I just try to put all of them to sleep as they are weak to earth then kill her allies one by one with Fire magic, Pummel's blitz and using Stomp with the Knight (to add Fire Element icons) once she is alone I mute her to reduce the damage from her Ice spells, I sleep her then stack MP with Defense and unleash a lot for damage by spamming fire attack, took me 2 or 3 attempts before finally managin to put them all to sleep at the beginning overall a fun time in which we makes good use of Statut Effect. -Water Crystal tower have mostly ennemies weak to Fire and Lightning, but since we have much more Crowd Control options random encounter aren't to bad. Garula was disappointingly easy basically once you put Blind on him he miss like 80-90% of his attacks, he only have one attack that add Element to the field (and only 1), so basically I just Blind him with Rogue's Dust and attack him with whatever element as he has no weaknesses (I used Fire cause I had Mythril Swords and Fire spell are free). -And so I unlock new jobs most notably Lord and Dark Knight, I can already see a great synergy between Dark Knight and Crusader (Esemte consuming HP with Dark Knight getting stronger at low HP) which I plan on doing on Galuf/Krile, not sure about the Lord tough some of his abilities in his Order looks interesting for either my Mages or Physical Damage Dealer, I don't really get the Law stuff tough.