Celes' out-of-place jab against Locke at the opera

[Timorio 1]

Quote

CELES: "Locke, why did you help me escape back in South Figaro?"

LOCKE: "I...once lost a girl I loved by doing nothing. I never want to stand by and watch that happen again."

CELES: "Her substitute, am I?"

This response of hers is nonsensically snippy and callous.  What was the reasoning here?

Locke's new line doesn't make sense either.  Locke had never met Celes prior to rescuing her, so what sense does it make for him to say "I saved you because I didn't want to stand by and lose someone I love again"?

[Hapanpappa 5]

Categorizing it as "nonsensically callous" is suspect, I'd argue it's just her being unequivocal & forward, and well within her character. I quite liked it.

I understand your confusion more with regards to the latter part. The two sentences aren't necessarily meant to be taken literally. The first part is just justification for how he operates in the present. How I interpreted it is that Locke has made himself a knight in shining armor in order to redeem his guilt and what he does he does for himself - it's not actually about the women he saves and thus obviously doesn't necessitate him loving them, at least initially. Celes affirms this by questioning whether he just chose her to be a substitute token for him to protect and feel better about himself. It requires a bit of inference, but I guess that's why I liked it as well. 

[MorteTheSkull 3]

On 12/1/2020 at 10:10 AM, Timorio said:

This response of hers is nonsensically snippy and callous.  What was the reasoning here?

Locke's new line doesn't make sense either.  Locke had never met Celes prior to rescuing her, so what sense does it make for him to say "I saved you because I didn't want to stand by and lose someone I love again"?

Oh, I disagree pretty wholeheartedly on both counts.  Celes is seeing through what is absolutely toxic behavior on Locke's part; the loss he's suffered has caused him to start treating all of the women in his life, interchangeably, as substitutes for Rachel, and it begins to show pretty early on in how he interacts with Terra and later Celes.  It likely feels objectifying and patronizing to Celes, a trained military general with way more combat experience and (at least on paper) skills to defend herself than a part-time thief part-time revolutionary, to be told upfront that this guy she's only just starting to know and connect with thinks he has some obligation to protect her.  Locke's whole character arc is him needing to learn that Celes isn't Rachel, and that he needs to stop projecting Rachel onto every woman he meets and trust Celes to be able to take care of herself (and take care of him, as reflected in Celes' line to Locke at the end of the game as they flee Kefka's tower) instead.  Celes is identifying that and calling it out early on.  She wants some sort of relationship with Locke, but she wants it to be on her terms, being fully accepted as herself, not seen as some ideal projected onto her, and she's making sure Locke knows that before she goes out and does something very vulnerable and unusual for her.

As for Locke's line, I think it not making sense is the whole point.  He doesn't know Terra at all when he meets her in the cave, yet immediately promises to always protect her.  He doesn't know Celes until finding her tied up in South Figaro, yet almost immediately makes the same proclamation.  Both women treat it not as noble but as strange and alienating of him to do (the little blinking animation they give the sprites is great) and it's very clear that like, Locke just jumps to "I'm this romantic hero who will keep you safe" mode the moment he meets anyone he can vaguely project Rachel onto.  We're meant to read Locke's statement here as vulnerable but also offputting, way too intense, and unfair to Celes, and her response as a rebuttal of that behavior and also the beginning of an invitation to try to get to know the *actual* Celes instead of Rachel being projected onto Celes.

[WaddleDoo 0]

Late to this party, but I had to chime in. The simple answer to this question is "because that's the original line in Japanese".

In the SNES translation, the exchange goes:
 

Quote

CELES: LOCKE. Why did you help me escape back there?

LOCKE: I...once abandoned someone when she needed me...

CELES: Somewhere inside you were saving... her, weren't you?

But this is a change from the original JP. The original exchange is (roughly)

Quote

Celes: Why did you help me back then?

Locke: I’m… tired of losing girls I like after being unable to do anything for them.

Celes: So I am a replacement for her, aren't I?

The SNES translation changed the exchange slightly for whatever reason. Conversely, the GBA translation reverts this change and brings it back closer to its original meaning:

Quote

Celes: Locke... Why did you stand up for me when you did?

Locke: ...Because I'm tired of standing by and doing nothing while I lose the girls I like.

Celes: Am I just a replacement...for her?

Personally, I'm a fan of the GBA translation of the game. I think it's the best compromise of localization while still staying true to the original meaning of the script.

I understand why the re-translators made this change in BNW. In the original JP, Celes speech style is very firm and stern, fitting her image as a general. This is actually maintained in the SNES translation, too; lines like "Fine. Use your own eyes, then decide." during the march to the snowfield protect-the-Esper fight, for example. It's just not quite as obvious when it's shown in English. The turning point in her speech style actually comes at the opera, when she first puts on the opera dress. At this point in the original JP, her speech style becomes softer, and more feminine; her speech even becomes more casual in the SNES translation to reflect this.

Ultimately, this jab is pretty close to the original Japanese, but I agree that it comes off as a bit more confrontational than the original writers intended. I didn't even blink when I saw it, knowing what I do about the game, and the fact that there are much more questionable translation choices in the BNW hack.