SirNewtonFig

Yeah, I mean, all it takes is for the address of something recorded in the save data to change in the new version to cause mayhem. Just imagine that the location of a whole bank of counters shifts by a few positions, and suddenly Shadow's speed becomes Gau's Vigor, or your GP becomes someone's EP. Or the location of spells or items change, and now Cyan's Holy (which he shouldn't even have now to begin with) becomes Goner or something, and his Mutsunokami becomes a Ribbon. I have no idea how the ROM or savedata are organized, so these are just contrived examples, obviously. I'd be curious to know what sort of things are recorded in the savedata that could cause softlock upon load in the new version though, I find that kinda neat.

It really depends on preference and playstyle. As someone who ranks Shadow in the top 50% of the cast easily, I'd consider it foolish to sacrifice him for a relatively minor buff to Relm. Meanwhile, as someone who struggles to make effective use of Gau in the endgame, he and Umaro are an easy pass for the final gauntlet. I'd try it in the interest of self-challenge, but otherwise Shadow is a shoe-in. In short, Shadow + regular Relm >> Interceptor Relm + Gau, IMO.

I think you will have to restart to see the full range of changes. Stats and spell lists are being tweaked, and those changes won't automatically apply to an existing save. Not sure if any new item(s) come at the expense of retiring old ones, but that sort of thing can cause weird results too. Any treasure locations being shuffled around could cause you to miss certain items (or receive unintended extras) as well. It's generally a good idea to start over if you want the intended experience, unless it's a minor/patch update that doesn't adjust any of these sort of properties.

I tend to think of the current implementation of Stamina as a sort of "Spirit" stat already, as I feel most of its uses fit such a theme. I see it as embodying the character's measure of willpower, determination, bravery, resilience, etc., moreso than just a measure of durability as the word "Stamina" might suggest. On the subject of how such a Spirit stat could contribute to healing, I don't think it necessarily would have to be used as the casting stat. Imagine it instead contributing to the amount healed based on the target's score — like an inverse of its current role in magical damage variance mitigation, or an X/256 bonus healing factor, or somesuch. It would go hand in hand with Regen ticks on making high Stamina characters bounce back faster, synergizes with Stamina's tanking role, etc.

I keep thinking about this modification, and I'm curious about the numbers on it. What's the plan for the extent this will have on the probability of being targeted?

Neat idea. I always loved those parts of Secret of Evermore, even if they did ultimately reduce down to a path optimization exercise in the end.

I think you just pointed out the disadvantage of the back row yourself. Its disadvantage and its advantage are the same thing — the increased threat to your front liner(s). Before this proposed change, there was actually no disadvantage to the back row, but now there is. Vig Sabin, Morph vig Terra, and Shadow (to a lesser extent), who all want that front row action, are now hurt when their buddies hide behind them. This makes the choice of putting your other squishes in the back row more significant. These glass cannon characters now demand at least one other front liner to share the responsibility, so this also adds one more variable to the party composition thought process — something I certainly appreciate. The only part that concerns me a little is the inability for front-liners to Cover one another, but I'm willing to see how this plays out before I cry too hard about that one.

Love these ideas. I feel like the half-turn setback would be appropriate for weapon/shield swapping too, if that gets implemented.

I can get behind this, in theory. Remove the random action gimmick, make it an honest to goodness 1v1 arena with a bit of challenge, with the challenge scaled to the reward. I could see it being hard to balance in practice though, with certain characters being far more suited for 1v1 survivability/ass kicking than others (though maybe that's not a bad thing). I also like the idea of gauntlet challenges that provide rewards, but these would have to be things like Ethers/X-Potions/Phoenix Tears/Ninja Stars rather than things like Hero Rings, unless they're only beatable once. (One tangentially related thought I had while playing around in the WoR the other day was that it would be neat if some of the rare stealables had Colosseum trade options. Nothing too grandiose, but something like a Shiv -> Snake Oil -> Slim Jim -> Shiv loop, Multiguard <-> Lazy Shell swap, Stat Hat <-> (?), etc. Or even have some of these be able to "trade up" to slightly improved Colosseum-exclusives: +7 Stat Hats, Shivs that can also proc Remedy, etc. Just spitballin' here.) I'd be reluctant to see the Colosseum become a shortcut/duplication method for endgame gear, though. I really like the trades that work cyclically/bidirectionally, as you can change up your loadout a bit without permanent consequence. I'm less fond of the trades that funnel powerful items like Ribbons or Hero Rings down into things like Life Bells or Elixirs, or that lead into loops that don't include the original item. I like leaving options open, and not having decisions on equipment or build be permanent. I am likewise a fan of the EL reset. I realize BTB is not so much a fan of these things, so I likely won't have the Colosseum of my dreams in BNW, but alas. And for the record, I am also of the camp that the vanilla Colosseum is a steaming pile of trash, but the Illumina/Minerva/Marvel Shoes are too hot to pass up so you do what you gotta do . FF7's version was much more enjoyable, though the randomized cumulative handicaps still made it a bit of a groaner. I just booted up my FC testing savestate and ran it with this exact party. Terra/Locke were Lvl18/EL10 starting out, Edgar/Shadow were Lvl17/EL8/7. It was a bit of a slog, but no game overs. I find Rerise (and most buffs in general, with the exception of Float ) not to be so critical here, since Atma uses his AoE pseudo-dispel numerous times during the fight anyway. I didn't really miss it, at any rate. I put an Amulet+White Cape on Edgar and designated him my Remedy bot, and outside of a couple of close calls, the cleanup after Mind Blast wasn't usually too awful. Could have been a harder time without those relics. I guess that makes it a bit of a gear check, but I don't think it's outlandish for the player to have accumulated at least a Fairy Ring or Amulet by this point; and there's a save point right before Atma, so the player has opportunity to see the pattern, fail, learn, and adjust loadout accordingly. If you don't have status protection relics (and/or a source of Harvester spam), then I guess you're learning a late lesson that status effects matter in BNW and that having the ability in your pocket to deal with the worst ones when necessary is good policy. It's not like the FC is so long or gruelling that a second tour is going to ruin your day, and all that cash from your first pass will fund all the Spirit Rings, Amulets, and White Capes that you will ever need for Atma and the WoR beyond! Re: the strategy vs. solution argument, I'll add that liberal application of Slow and Float are 100% strategic moves, generally speaking. You can get by without them (excepting a rogue Quake sketch by Relm in certain places, which can often mean game over – though that's a topic for another discussion), but they're a quality-of-life improvement. Dispel is too, when you're removing known buffs; but if the buffs are invisible, or if casting Dispel actually alters enemy AI, that's less strategy and more <do X to win specific fight Y easier> (i.e. a solution). This isn't necessarily a bad thing. I see BTB mentioned Phunbaba, and his "don't turtle" mechanic. This is a fine example of a "solution" put into practice well, as the game warns you about it first: "If you run into Phunbaba again, don't stop attacking". I don't recall if there's anyone who gives you this heads up about Atma's solution, or if you're just meant to deduce it from the "Atma is storing power" etc. text cues. Does he get Safe/Shell when he hulks out? I didn't recall seeing my damage outputs change, but that'd be a tangible indicator that there's buffs at play.

It is certainly true that spell availability in the menu does not update if an MP-altering effect resolves while the menu is open, but I opened and closed the menu a few times in this case and Life and Regen remained selectable. It may be possible that I had the menu open on a previous turn as Celes was counterattacking with her Illumina, and that the menu simply got stuck that way until her MP updated again. Could it be something in the routine for deducting MP for MP-crit weapons maybe? At Celes's level here, an MP crit would cost her about 13 MP, so it would make sense that Reraise would have already been unavailable when the glitch occurred, while Life and Regen would be affected.

If Celes only has 8 MP, why does the menu want to let her try casting Regen for 15 MP?

Shouldn't the rats only cast Poison if you're over leveled (like > lv 7 or so)? It's so the early enemies can still be relevant when you have to backtrack there later. You shouldn't need to grind levels so early as to encounter Poison as solo Terra.

Huh, I didn't realize the Radiant Gown still gave a bonus to brush proc rates. EDIT: Turns out I had things flipped – it was the MP boost that had been removed a ways back, and the brush boost was added. Goes to show how little I use Brushes for their rider effects...

No haste proc on the Ross brush makes the name seem less appropriate. Picasso brush, maybe? Stoked for this to drop. Great stuff, devs!

I 100% support the Mog experience that I had, which was that Dance+Cover worked, but the Counters didn't happen. Streaks of non-recovery steps happen (just like streaks of non-Covered hits), so it's far from OP. Having Counter on top of that would definitely be over the top with his insane rod procs. I'm torn on C/C as a viable offensive strat. On the one hand, it's fun and badass; but I think certain characters are just able to exploit the offensive opportunity too well. Or maybe it's just the balance of the FC? I haven't done this level of analysis elsewhere yet. If there was at least one immune/absorb mob on the FC for each of the elemental blades, it would take Terra/Celes down a peg. There was some chatter about putting a damage penalty on the counterattacks — I'd be interested in taking that for a spin to see how it compares too.

Having now run C/C on the FC with Terra, Celes, Cyan, Shadow, Locke, Mog, and Edgar, I think I enjoy the ladies most. The others follow in the order just listed. Thoughts below: Terra took around 3 Bismark levels with the rest in Unicorn, while Celes took around 5 in Seraph with the rest in Phantom (maybe one more Seraph before Atma). I found single blade preferable to dual wield, opting for Gold Shield/Mystery Veil/Power Armor with Power Glove and Hero Ring. This left them a little squishy (what's that, like 105 Defense?), but they proc potent tier-2s all over the place. Elec Sword for the IAF, and Icebrand for the rest. Blood Sword is ok, but the procs are limited in power and suicidal against Djinn. There are just so many capable healers you can bring along to keep your tank patched up, why not let your tank be monster DPS too? Cyan is probably more dependable than the ladies, but with lower burst damage potential on his counters. He still hits moderately hard though, and he just never goes down. Empowerer doesn't care if you're undead, it eats your soul whoever you are. (I swear Cyan is secretly the resident Death Knight of this mod.) Shadow C/C is hilarious, and a close favorite behind Terra/Celes/Cyan. Has anyone collected enough stats on evasion's interactions with Cover to confirm that the evasion reduction is working? It feels like he's still dodging nearly everything, but maybe that's just some hot RNG. Behemoths and Ninjas laugh at the Wind Slash and Break procs, but they wreck everything else. Even Atma was getting a faceful of 2K+ damage from Shadow anytime he tried to smack anyone around with physical attacks. Watch out for those Discords from Djinn though, yowza. Probably best paired with Mog jamming on Forest Suite to keep everyone safe. Locke evasion tanking isn't bad at all, but he gets less sword procs than the ladies with his setup (unless he trades his Thief Glove for some huevos misterioso, I guess?). He does, however, have the perk of being able to run Blood Sword with less worries by pairing it with the Demonsbane and hoping that dispatches the nasty Djinn before the Drain proc dispatches him. Mog C/C with rod procs makes enemies dead fast. It also makes Mog dead fast. One amusing observation from these experiments is that Cover still seems to work while Dancing. I was under the impression that this was not the case, but maybe i'm misinformed. It's possible that its odds are simply reduced, but I'm still definitely getting Cover procs while Mog grooves out. This means that Mog can bodyguard while throwing around Harvesters and Sun Baths, which is pretty bomb. That all said, I don't recall seeing any Counter procs through all of this, so maybe he can't have it all. Could be streaky RNG too. In any case, I probably wouldn't advise any of this without the Hero Ring from the FC, as his squishy HP will not hold out long. Edgar C/C isn't a complete waste here, but it is extremely meh. I want Unicorn Edgar to be a thing, I really do; but he just doesn't have the base stats to back it up. Going full Unicorn, I think he was packing a grand total of 39 Stamina if holding an Icebrand, though his pitiable 32 Magic makes for some sadder procs. With both relic slots dedicated to C/C, he's got no way to boost his procs in either frequency or power. Blood Sword actually isn't bad (42 Stamina now, and the procs don't care that his Magic sucks), but now the Djinn make fast work of him. Personally, I don't feel like the FC is Edgar's time to shine in general – maybe if he had access to his Flash pre-FC, a Siren build would have more to contribute here. Other than that, elemental sword jumping on a Golem build works, but it's a little sluggish.

If you're really curious what each character is capable of, there's a Character Discussion subforum at the top of the BNW board – though I encourage you to wait until you're mostly finished your first run to dive in there in earnest. You needn't worry too much – the characters who end up with the really potent spells you mention are limited, and most characters with access to any of those only get a couple of them at most. Pretty much everyone has ways of contributing outside of Magic spam in this mod; and even those capable of Magic spam, with a couple of late-game exceptions, still need to pay heed to elemental affinities, magic defense, and MP management to be effective. Also, don't underestimate the effectiveness of non-capstone spells in this mod like Ice2, Cure2, Bio, and especially status spells like Haste, Slow, Shell, Sleep, etc. Unlike in vanilla, any one of these can contribute quite meaningfully even later on.

For anyone wanting to play around with various (almost) even-levelled character build options for the FC, here's an Snes9x savestate with all characters at level 17-18 with 8-10 unspent ELs. If anyone wants an SRAM, I can try to make that happen too, though my setup seems to be mighty finnicky with persisting SRAMs for some reason... Throughout this run, I fought no more battles than necessary (applied the the Random Encounter patch and used Chocobos where possible), with the exception of hanging around Zozo until I had two Healing Shivs and a Mystery Egg after the Dadluma fight. I was regularly about 1-2 levels behind the expected level for any given point along the way, and chronically low on cash and Phoenix Downs. Under these conditions, most of the game felt like a decent challenge – some slip ups or rough RNG could mean dropping a character or two, but for the most part I felt like I was in control of my fate and didn't have to employ any fancy tactics. There were a few points where the struggle was a little more real, however: Dadaluma: at Vaylen's request, I deliberately gimped myself a bit here with party composition. I brought along Cyan, Gau, Celes and Shadow. This party was well suited to dispatching (har) randoms, but really struggled with the big guy. Celes hadn't learned Slow yet (everyone was about level 10 here); and while Cyan and Gau could both theoretically set Sap to counter the Regen from Slim Jim, the add-ons made it tough to reliably land it. In the end, it came down to RNG – if Big D KOd Gau before he had the chance to set Rerise on himself, the resulting recovery spiral would generally result in a wipe. On my 4th try, I pulled through. I wonder if going Hornet with Gau would have been any better – but keeping Gau on his feet was the hardest part of the fight, and Conjurer definitely made that possible. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I brought Cyan and Sabin for the IMTRF segment, and that went fine. Had some really close calls with the Cranes and the boss on the tracks (I forget his number), but no wipes here. The battle on the bridge at the Sealed Gate was another close call (IIRC, Edgar finished it off with a Bio Blaster with 1HP remaining), but again no wipes. The Ultros fight by the statues was the hardest part of this run, but it was my own stupid forgetful fault. I savestated after the chitchat by the statues, and didn't feel like reloading an earlier save, so I was stuck with the loadout I had – and neither Terra nor Strago knew Shell, and I forgot to pick up Zoneseek prior to this segment. Party was around level 15ish here (maybe a 14 on Strago). Tentacle was a 1HKO for Strago and about 75% of Terra's max HP, and El Nino was knocking off about 80% of Locke's max HP, so it was too easy to find myself in a losing recovery spiral here. This one probably took me about 8 attempts to get past. Though again, probably would have been much different with access to Shell to take the edge off of El Nino. The only segment along the way that felt too easy was the Opera House; but maybe that's just Sabin's Hell Claw talking?

I suppose this one's not so much a bug as an oversight, and a pretty edge-case one at that, but – if you go back to Narshe with Shadow in your party during the search for Terra, he'll keep his equipment when he leaves, and the unequip NPC in Narshe won't be able to remove his loadout.

Extreme ASM noob here, and I'm having trouble getting this patch to apply. I'm using Maxkas on Mac OS 10.13, which itself uses xkas 0.6 or asar 1.01 (I've tried both options). Both fail on line 6, something about the 'ff6_snes_battle.tbl' table, and asar also complains about 'not supported [hirom]'. I have my ROM, .asm patch, and the .tbl file all in the same directory at the moment. Example output below: Any tips?

If I have time this weekend, I'm going to start a new run with the objective of getting to the FC with all party members at level 18 with 8-10 banked but unspent ELs, and can share a savestate for further experimentation. If there are any other points before the FC that folks would like similar test data for, let me know (along with a desired target level and number of banked ELs) and I'll try to get a snapshot for each.

And not even Siren. Does Locke even have debuff options? They'd have to come from weapon procs, and I can't think of any. But yes, Locke is all about giving and taking away HP. Those are really the only tools in his kit. If he happens to be one of the better C/C users, I feel that it is appropriate – both balance-wise, and in terms of his character.

I've seen this mentioned around here before, but it's not true. Since we're on the subject of physical damage right now, here's a passage from the book of Readme: I'd have to know character loadouts to be more specific, but at the levels in question a 4 level differential represents about a 30% increase in damage, give or take. Add on the Thief's Glove (if Shadow isn't using a Power Glove at the moment in OP's setup), and that becomes more like a 60%ish damage gap between Locke and Shadow. If I'm not mistaken, character level also impacts magical damage formulae – but these aren't mentioned in the Readme, so I'm guessing they were left untouched from vanilla. If this is true, then they would look something like this: There's also a few other odds and ends that are affected by level, such as Atma Weapon, GP Toss, and Shock damage, as well as Condemned timers, though these are much less ubiquitous.

Enjoy! Morphed Terra spamming lategame spells, C/C Illumina Phantom Celes, and Stam Sabin for MP support are BFFs. It's one configuration where relegating Sabin to MP-recovery duty doesn't feel like a waste. Strago would make a great fourth wheel, bringing Shield, X-Shell, Refract, and some heavy Poison and Water elemental coverage to the table. I've used Relm as the fourth in this configuration to great satisfaction as well. Having 3 characters who can all switch hit between healing and DPS like champs is extreme luxury. I feel like it's high time I take a stab at NHT. This thread has me craving another run, and this patch should make things fresh enough. Maybe toss on a few beta patches (Elemental mixing, ephemeral reflect, encounter rate) for extra freshness. Speaking of fresh new things, what is this Black Dart for Setzer you speak of? I don't recall coming across that before.

Suppose an ideal strategy for boss fight X exists. By increasing the duration of this encounter, all other factors being equal, following the same ideal strategy will still yield the same challenge — it simply imposes a higher tax on expendable resources (MP, recovery items). Thus, arbitrary increase in battle duration (which is in practice identical to already having a battle that is too long in duration) will only serve, at worst, to encourage additional grinding (either for more levels/ELs for MP growth, or money for consumables). At best, it will cause the set of viable strategies to gravitate towards the ideal solution. This runs counter to BNW's design philosophy. * The above argument assumes that boss fight X is already longer in duration than certain limited-duration buffs, such as Golem, that can trivialize certain challenge elements for their duration. In such a remote case, yeah, more duration does change the challenge.