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praetarius5018

Road to 2.0

237 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Second, I can see why you "finalized" Angela first. Her relatively organized spell sets make her design options the most straightforward.

Angela, Charlie and Hawk (minus ninjamaster) were the easy first candidates since they had already full lists so I only had to shuffle them around and maybe exchange 1 or 2 spells, like Bishop with both Holy Ball and Saint Beam is redundant.

4 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Finally, off topic, do you still have a set of accessories open, or do you have plans to fill those in already?

How is that off topic?

I still have open:
1 weapon
1 armor
2 accessoires

Others would still be exchangable if I like different ideas better.

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29 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Starlancer:    32/30/30/30/30/30
Dark Saber (18 STR), Saint Saber (20 STR), Power Up* (23 STR)
Energy Ball (17 AGL), Ice Smash* (18 AGL), Speed Up* (20 AGL)
Airblast* (17 INT), Fireball* (19 INT), Mind Up* (22 INT)
Marduke* (18 PIE), Aura Wave (20 PIE), Def Up* (23 PIE)

Love the customization options here. Thematically strong too: Why would a girl who looks to the stars waste her time learning Diamond Missile?

This makes me really excited to see what you have planned for other classes.

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1 minute ago, rpschamp said:

Love the customization options here. Thematically strong too: Why would a girl who looks to the stars waste her time learning Diamond Missile?

  1. I was going for a classical red mage here: fire, ice, lightning
  2. she is affiliated with wind, so earth as the opposite isn't as welcome
  3. as a princress she wouldn't throw away precious diamonds /joke

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27 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

How is that off topic?

Off class-topic, but not off-2.0-Topic.

27 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I still have open:
1 weapon
1 armor
2 accessoires

My only advice at the moment is to not finish up too quickly, if you plan to make this your last update. I'm hoping a few more players get involved and post their ideas as well.

21 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I was going for a classical red mage here: fire, ice, lightning

Grand Divina and Star Lancer will be competing for that title :-)

53 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

No matter what you do, at best you get 2 ST buffs (def up, speed up) and 2 MT buffs or 3 MTs and lose one buff completely.

Have you thought about designing Vanadis to have the option to go for the 4 MT buffs, being the most support-oriented Lise class (with Heal Light, Tinkle Rain)?

Perhaps as in giving up Heal Light to learn all 4 MT buffs?

Edited by praetarius5018

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24 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Have you thought about designing Vanadis to have the option to go for the 4 MT buffs, being the most support-oriented Lise class (with Heal Light, Tinkle Rain)?

Perhaps as in giving up Heal Light to learn all 4 MT buffs?

Not sure how I'd even do that.

I'd have to be something like:
stat1: x, x, x, heal light
stat2: x, x, def up, other buff
stat3: x, x, speed up, other buff

Would people even be ok with waiting until that deep into the stat tree before she gets the first "relevant" buff for a buffer?

Also, Vanadise doesn't get MT buffs at all.

Edited by praetarius5018

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11 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Not sure how I'd even do that.

I'd have to be something like:
stat1: x, x, x, heal light
stat2: x, x, def up, other buff
stat3: x, x, speed up, other buff

Would people even be ok with waiting until that deep into the stat tree before she gets the first "relevant" buff for a buffer?

def up, speed up, air blast as Valkyrie, then

stat1: MT air blast, x, x, x, heal light
stat2: power up, MT def up, x, MT power up
stat3: mind up, MT speed up, x, MT mind up

Edited by rpschamp

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Doesn't work, can't have the same spell twice in the list.
Even if it did work, the MT power up would then overwrite ST power up, meaning you use 10 spell slots total and miss 0.

Edited by praetarius5018

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So Power Up and Mind Up can only be given one stat requirement, even if the first requirement is ST and the second is MT?

Just trying to see how this works for future suggestions.

Given this, I agree that putting Power Up and Mind Up at the end of their trees would kind of suck.

11 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Even if it did work, the MT power up would then overwrite ST power up, meaning you use 10 spell slots total and miss 0.

I thought that if you knew 10 spells, you couldn't learn any subsequent upgrades.

Edited by rpschamp

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12 entries total for potential learnable spells
each spell may appear only once, doesn't matter the target type.
Overwriting/upgrading a specific skill of the prior class that no longer is in the list is ok.
Upgrading a spell from the current list is not.

Out of these 12 you can keep 10 or less if a spell from some other source takes a spell slot.

3 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I thought that if you knew 10 spells, you couldn't learn any subsequent upgrades.

That as well, but temporarely upgrading ST to MT via white light ring is still possible.

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Got it, thank you.

It seems that Vanadis will end up some variety of Red Mage as well, but she should have something to distinguish her.

Maybe her focus should simply be on the basic 4 elements (earth, air, water, fire), with fewer Angela-style direct damage spells but more support spells, including some saber spells to boost her final weapon? Thematically, kind of a more support-oriented version of Rune Master?

Edited by rpschamp

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I currently have for Lise:

base:        11/11/10/10/10/9
no spells

Valkyrie:    17/16/16/15/16/14
Protect Up (11 PIE), Speed Up (13 PIE)
Airblast (12 INT)

Rune Maiden:    16/17/16/16/15/15
Speed Down (11 PIE), Protect Down (13 PIE)
Unicorn Head (12 INT)

Vanadise:    31/31/31/29/31/29
Protect Up, Speed Up
Flame Saber (18 STR), Power Up (20 STR)
Freya* (18 PIE), Tinkle Rain (19 PIE), Heal Light (21 PIE)
Body Change (16 INT), Thunderstorm (19 INT, replaces Airblast), Mind Up (22 INT)
Holy Ball (16 LUCK), Thunder Saber (20 LUCK)

Starlancer:    32/30/30/30/30/30
Dark Saber (18 STR), Saint Saber (20 STR), Power Up* (23 STR)
Energy Ball (17 AGL), Ice Smash* (18 AGL), Speed Up* (20 AGL)
Airblast* (17 INT), Fireball* (19 INT), Mind Up* (22 INT)
Marduke* (18 PIE), Aura Wave (20 PIE), Protect Up* (23 PIE)

DragonMaster:    30/31/32/30/30/31
Unicorn Head
Jormungand* (18 PIE), Speed Down* (19 PIE), Protect Down* (21 PIE)
Ghoul (17 INT), Ghost (18 INT), Lunatic (20 INT), Mind Down* (23 INT)
Sleep Flower* (18 AGL), Gremlin (19 AGL), Anti-Magic (21 AGL), Power Down* (23 AGL)

FenrirKnight:    31/32/31/31/29/30
Unicorn Head
Leaf Saber (17 INT), Transshape (20 INT), Poison Bubble (22 INT)
Moon Saber (19 AGL), Black Rain* (21 AGL), Speed Down* (23 AGL)
Ghost Road* (17 LUCK), Mind Down* (20 LUCK)
Lamia Naga* (18 PIE), Protect Down* (20 PIE), Power Down* (23 PIE)

Edited by praetarius5018

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This is a lot to think about. I will take some time to digest this and respond later.

First impression is that Fenrir Knight will be leading my first 2.0 team.

One suggestion so far - increase the spell cost of Black Rain to 10 MP? Dark element can be a liability later in the game, but that should be made up for by having a Curse option, and it gets the extra 25% for always-MT damage. It should at least cost a couple more MP than Shuriken.

EDIT: It may also be fun to split Ghost Road and Demon Breath between Fenrir Knight and Dragon Master (only Evil Shaman gets both). Demon Breath would fit nicely thematically with Dragon Master as you have her.

Edited by rpschamp

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19 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Vanadise:    31/31/31/29/31/29
Protect Up, Speed Up
Flame Saber (18 STR), Power Up (20 STR)
Freya* (18 PIE), Tinkle Rain (19 PIE), Heal Light (21 PIE)
Body Change (16 INT), Thunderstorm (19 INT, replaces Airblast), Mind Up (22 INT)
Holy Ball (16 LUCK), Thunder Saber (20 LUCK)

Classical Valkyrie upgrade, a level 2 ST damage spell as opposed to Star Lancer's level 1 MT damage spells, Heal Light and Tinkle Rain roughly balance out with Star Lancer's MT buffs and Marduke's ever-useful Silence. Looks good.

19 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Starlancer:    32/30/30/30/30/30
Dark Saber (18 STR), Saint Saber (20 STR), Power Up* (23 STR)
Energy Ball (17 AGL), Ice Smash* (18 AGL), Speed Up* (20 AGL)
Airblast* (17 INT), Fireball* (19 INT), Mind Up* (22 INT)
Marduke* (18 PIE), Aura Wave (20 PIE), Protect Up* (23 PIE)

Classical Red Mage, great variety of useful buffs, debuffs, Silence (though missing Poison), and damage spells. Love this one.

19 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

DragonMaster:    30/31/32/30/30/31
Unicorn Head
Jormungand* (18 PIE), Speed Down* (19 PIE), Protect Down* (21 PIE)
Ghoul (17 INT), Ghost (18 INT), Lunatic (20 INT), Mind Down* (23 INT)
Sleep Flower* (18 AGL), Gremlin (19 PIE), Anti-Magic (21 PIE), Power Down* (23 PIE)

I like the idea of making Dragon Master a more summon-centric class for Lise, but there's no option here to get both Power Down and Mind Down. Learning these two skills should at least be an option for Dark Lise, maybe at a sacrifice in this case. Here are some ideas to fix this:

- Remove Sleep Flower or Gremlin from the spell list. This way, if Dragon Master completes her INT and AGL series, she has to completely ignore her PIE series and will miss her summon and MT Speed and Protect Down.

- Set Unicorn Head to be replaced by Gremlin, Ghoul, or Ghost. Same as above: by completing her INT and AGL series, she will miss her summon and MT Speed and Protect Down.

- Switch the positions of Mind Down and Anti-Magic. This way, by learning both Mind Down and Power Down, she would be giving up Anti-Magic, a major sacrifice since her final weapon empowers it. 

- Replace Sleep Flower or Gremlin with Demon Breath, so that she at least gets a MT Mind Down option. This would be a nice mirror to Fenrir Knight having Ghost Road as an MT Power Down option obtainable earlier through a different series. If you did this, you might consider switching the positions of Jormungand and Lunatic so that she would have to choose to give up either her summon or MT Speed and Protect Down, rather than choosing to give up either Lunatic or MT Speed and Power Down (a obvious choice, to me at least).

19 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

FenrirKnight:    31/32/31/31/29/30
Unicorn Head
Leaf Saber (17 INT), Transshape (20 INT), Poison Bubble (22 INT)
Moon Saber (19 AGL), Black Rain* (21 AGL), Speed Down* (23 AGL)
Ghost Road* (17 LUCK), Mind Down* (20 LUCK)
Lamia Naga* (18 PIE), Protect Down* (20 PIE), Power Down* (23 PIE)

Ghost Road and Power Down give two options for MT physical debuff, Black Rain can Curse, all stat downs can be MT, Leaf and Moon Saber (usefulness balances out with the lack of a saber/resist option), even a Leaf Coat option. With her final weapon and shields, this class will be an awesome team leader. Love this one too.

Edited by rpschamp

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2 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I like the idea of making Dragon Master a more summon-centric class for Lise, but there's no option here to get both Power Down and Mind Down

You need to get 13 PIE as Rune Maiden to learn the other 2 debuffs as ST.
Then as DM go 23 INT and 23 AGL; the spells after sleep flower should've been AGL as well... I blame copy-paste.

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17 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

You need to get 13 PIE as Rune Maiden to learn the other 2 debuffs as ST.

I missed that! (Now I see why you listed only Unicorn Head at the head of their lists.) Looks good then. Nice class with good direct damage options, whereas Fenrir Knight focuses more on debuffs and utility spells.

17 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Then as DM go 23 INT and 23 AGL; the spells after sleep flower should've been AGL as well... I blame copy-paste.

I assumed this was the case.

19 hours ago, rpschamp said:

It may also be fun to split Ghost Road and Demon Breath between Fenrir Knight and Dragon Master (only Evil Shaman gets both). Demon Breath would fit nicely thematically with Dragon Master as you have her.

Any thoughts on this, or do you think that it would make Dragon Master too powerful? Also, do you have any changes planned to Ghost Road or Demon Breath? I think Ghost Road is fine as it is, but Demon Breath's Dark element makes it more of a liability in the endgame for an MT spell. To balance this, you could remove the Dark element (Air and Fire should be enough) or add a Curse option to it.

Edited by rpschamp

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12 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Any thoughts on this, or do you think that it would make Dragon Master too powerful? Also, do you have any changes planned to Ghost Road or Demon Breath? I think Ghost Road is fine as it is, but Demon Breath's Dark element makes it more of a liability in the endgame for an MT spell. To balance this, you could remove the Dark element (Air and Fire should be enough) or add a Curse option to it.

I don't want it on DM as demon breath really only works well if you have anti-magic and Evil Shaman already has that combo.

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33 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I don't want it on DM as demon breath really only works well if you have anti-magic and Evil Shaman already has that combo.

Well, I think that Angela's and Lise's classes look great as you have them, and I don't think we'll really know any problems until they get played for a while. I don't have much to add for Angela or Lise; I love the increased customizability and think other players will go nuts over trying different team and character builds when this comes out.

The only thing is that Earth spells seem to be left out a little so far, but I get that this is because Lise is more Wind-oriented.

Looking forward to Carlie next? Keep up the good work!

Edited by rpschamp

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I was worried about that idea at first but I think this could actually be fun with the way the spells are being spread out.

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What I have so far:

Angela

Spoiler

base:        8/8/8/12/11/10
Fireball (7 INT), Diamond Missile (9 INT), Airblast (11 INT), Ice Smash (12 INT)

Sorceress:    14/14/14/17/17/16
Airblast* (13 INT), Ice Smash* (14 INT), Fireball* (15 INT), Diamond Missile* (16 INT)
Evil Gate (12 PIE), Holy Ball (14 PIE)

Delvar:        13/13/14/18/16/15
Thunderstorm (13 INT, replaces Airblast), Mega Splash (14 INT, replaces Ice Smash)
Explode (15 INT, replaces Fireball), Earth Quake (16 INT, replaces Diamond Missile)

Grand Divina:    30/29/28/32/32/30
Fireball*, Diamond Missile*, Airblast*, Ice Smash*
Holy Ball* (18 PIE), Tinkle Rain (20 PIE), Heal Light (21 PIE)
Speed Up (17 LUCK), Evil Gate* (18 LUCK), Sleep Flower (20 LUCK)
Transshape (18 INT), Double Spell* (20 INT)

Arch Mage:    29/30/29/31/31/31
Earth Quake* (18 INT, replaces Diamond Missile), Thunderstorm* (19 INT, replaces Airblast)
Mega Splash* (20 INT, replaces Ice Smash), Explode* (21 INT, replaces Fireball)
Saint Beam* (19 PIE, replaces Holy Ball), Dark Force* (20 PIE, replaces Evil Gate), Mind Down (22 PIE)
Body Change (17 LUCK), Aura Wave (19 LUCK)
Power Down (15 AGL), Anti-Magic (17 AGL), Rainbow Dust* (20 AGL)

Rune Master:    28/28/30/32/30/30
Thunderstorm* (15 AGL), Stun Wind (18 AGL), Thunder Saber* (21 AGL)
Earth Quake* (16 LUCK), Diamond Saber* (19 LUCK), Stone Cloud (22 LUCK)
Mega Splash* (17 PIE), Ice Saber* (20 PIE), Cold Blaze (23 PIE)
Explode* (19 INT), Blaze Wall (22 INT), Flame Saber* (25 INT)

Magus:        29/29/29/33/29/29
Earth Quake* (19 INT), Thunderstorm* (20 INT), Mega Splash* (21 INT), Explode* (22 INT), Rainbow Dust* (24 INT)
Dark Force* (17 PIE), Lunatic (18 PIE), Death Spell (20 PIE)
Power Up (16 LUCK), Mind Up^ (18 LUCK), Poison Bubble (20 LUCK), Ancient* (22 LUCK)

Charlie

Spoiler

base:        8/8/8/11/12/11
Holy Ball (6 PIE), Tinkle Rain (7 PIE)

Priestess:    13/14/14/16/18/16
Holy Ball* (13 PIE), Heal Light (14 PIE), Tinkle Rain (15 PIE)
Diamond Saber (9 AGL), Thunder Saber (11 AGL)

Enchantress:    13/14/13/17/17/17
Holy Ball* (13 PIE), Tinkle Rain (15 PIE)
Machine Golem (12 INT), Unicorn Head (14 INT), Ghost (15 INT), Ghoul (16 INT)

Bishop:        29/31/28/29/32/31
Heal Light* (15 AGL), Tinkle Rain* (17 AGL), Magic Shield (20 AGL)
Saint Beam* (19 PIE, replaces Holy Ball), Saint Saber (22 PIE), Turn Undead* (24 PIE)
Thunder Saber* (14 STR), Power Up* (16 STR), Diamond Saber* (18 STR)
Flame Saber* (17 LUCK), Energy Ball (19 LUCK), Ice Saber* (21 LUCK)

Sage:        28/30/29/30/33/30
Heal Light* (15 AGL), Tinkle Rain* (17 AGL), Thunder Saber (18 AGL)
Saint Beam* (19 PIE, replaces Holy Ball), Leaf Saber (20 PIE), Dark Force* (22 PIE)
Life Booster (17 INT), Mind Up* (19 INT), Rainbow Dust* (21 INT)
Diamond Saber, Ice Saber (15 VIT), Flame Saber (16 VIT)

Necromancer:    29/29/27/31/32/32
Holy Ball*, Tinkle Rain
Machine Golem, Unicorn Head, Ghost, Ghoul
Black Curse (20 INT)
Great Demon (20 LUCK)
Dark Saber (18 PIE), Gremlin (20 PIE)
Black Rain* (17 AGL), Half Vanish (20 AGL)

Evil Shaman:    30/30/28/30/31/31
Holy Ball*, Tinkle Rain
Unicorn Head, Machine Golem, Ghoul, Ghost Road* (20 INT, replaces Ghost)
Demon Breath (19 PIE)
Transshape (16 AGL)
Protect Up (17 VIT)
Sleep Flower* (15 STR)
Lunatic (19 LUCK), Anti-Magic (22 LUCK)

Lise

Spoiler

base:        11/11/10/10/10/9
no spells

Valkyrie:    17/16/16/15/16/14
Protect Up (11 PIE), Speed Up (13 PIE)
Airblast (12 INT)

Rune Maiden:    16/17/16/16/15/15
Speed Down (11 PIE), Protect Down (13 PIE)
Unicorn Head (12 INT)

Vanadise:    31/31/31/29/31/29
Protect Up, Speed Up
Flame Saber (18 STR), Power Up (20 STR)
Freya* (18 PIE), Tinkle Rain (19 PIE), Heal Light (21 PIE)
Body Change (16 INT), Thunderstorm (19 INT, replaces Airblast), Mind Up (22 INT)
Holy Ball (16 LUCK), Thunder Saber (20 LUCK)

Starlancer:    32/30/30/30/30/30
Dark Saber (18 STR), Saint Saber (20 STR), Power Up* (23 STR)
Energy Ball (17 AGL), Ice Smash* (18 AGL), Speed Up* (20 AGL)
Airblast* (17 INT), Fireball* (19 INT), Mind Up* (22 INT)
Marduke* (18 PIE), Aura Wave (20 PIE), Protect Up* (23 PIE)

DragonMaster:    30/31/32/30/30/31
Unicorn Head
Jormungand* (18 PIE), Speed Down* (19 PIE), Protect Down* (21 PIE)
Ghoul (17 INT), Ghost (18 INT), Lunatic (20 INT), Mind Down* (23 INT)
Sleep Flower* (18 AGL), Gremlin (19 AGL), Anti-Magic (21 AGL), Power Down* (23 AGL)

FenrirKnight:    31/32/31/31/29/30
Unicorn Head
Leaf Saber (17 INT), Transshape (20 INT), Poison Bubble (22 INT)
Moon Saber (19 AGL), Black Rain* (21 AGL), Speed Down* (23 AGL)
Ghost Road* (17 LUCK), Mind Down* (20 LUCK)
Lamia Naga* (18 PIE), Protect Down* (20 PIE), Power Down* (23 PIE)

Hawk

Spoiler

base:        9/12/9/9/9/12
no spells

Ranger:        14/17/15/14/15/18
Arrows (13 LUCK), Spikes (14 LUCK)
Body Change (10 INT), Sleep Flower (11 INT)

Ninja:        15/18/15/15/14/17
Shuriken (13 AGL), Earth Jutsu (14 AGL), Thunder Jutsu (15 AGL), Water Jutsu (16 AGL), Fire Jutsu (17 AGL)

Wanderer:    27/31/30/29/30/32
Arrows, Sleep Flower* (16 PIE), Body Change* (17 PIE)
Poison Bubble (15 INT), Lunatic (18 INT), Anti-Magic (21 INT, replaces Spikes)
Transshape (19 LUCK), Life Booster (21 LUCK), Energy Ball (22 LUCK)
Half Vanish (18 AGL), Magic Shield (20 AGL), Aura Wave (22 AGL)

Rogue:        28/32/29/28/29/33
Sleep Flower* (16 PIE), Body Change* (17 PIE), Speed Up^ (20 PIE)
Rock Fall (16 INT), Cresent (18 INT), Silver Dart (21 INT)
Cutter Missile (18 AGL), Land Mine (20 AGL), Deadly Weapon (22 AGL)
Rocket Launcher (19 LUCK, replaces Spikes), Axe Bomber (21 LUCK, replaces Arrows), Grenade Bomb (23 LUCK)

Ninja Master:    28/33/30/30/28/32
Sleep Flower (20 STR), Thunder Jutsu* (24 STR)
Shuriken* (19 AGL), Earth Jutsu* (26 AGL)
Water Jutsu* (18 VIT), Thunder Saber (25 VIT)
Fire Jutsu* (17 INT), Poison Bubble (24 INT)
Ice Saber (16 PIE), Transshape (23 PIE)
Crescent (18 LUCK), Analyse (25 LUCK)

Night Blade:    29/32/31/29/29/31
Fire Jutsu, Water Jutsu, Earth Jutsu* (25 PIE), Thunder Jutsu* (28 PIE)
Poison Breath (19 AGL), Blow Needles (21 AGL), Black Rain* (23 AGL)
Fire Breath (18 INT), Deadly Weapon (21 INT), Shuriken* (28 INT)
Silver Dart (20 LUCK), Grenade Bomb (23 LUCK)

Biggest change there is Ninja Master.

Duran and Kevin will be a problem.
Their current incarnation have about 6-7 in most classes, so bloating that up to 12 is problematic, especially given how little spells fit them thematically..

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Thanks for this; I'll have time to look over "Charlie" and Hawk later today.

48 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Duran and Kevin will be a problem.
Their current incarnation have about 6-7 in most classes, so bloating that up to 12 is problematic, especially given how little spells fit them thematically..

I agree that this requires some thought. But one option is to just leave some of these classes less customizable, and improve them in other ways.

I don't think that this is a major problem for Kevin, since he's thematically a "simpler" character with more straightforward utility through melee. He could get a stat boost to compensate, maybe a small boost to Luck, for instance, putting him statistically between Duran and Hawk.

For Dark Duran, Swordmaster should have enough spells to be customizable, and Duelist could maybe fall into the "simpler", less customizable category with his focus on level 2/3 techs.

Light Duran is trickier, but I think you could fill him out with a few more direct damage spells, sabers, buffs/debuffs, and support spells, taking care to keep him different enough from Bishop and Vanadis. For example, Paladin could get ST Holy Ball/Saint Beam and maybe ST Diamond Missile/Earthquake, while Lord could get MT Holy Ball, MT Evil Gate, and maybe Fire and Ice Sabers to give him a variety of elemental damage options.

You could also give Duran better stats; some extra SPI points for instance would make him a better shield user and help with his direct damage and heal spells. I agree that this sounds like making him more like Lise, but Lise should still stand out with her access to summons and complete buff/debuff sets.

And there's always the option to restrict access to shields again to Light Duran (like in the original), but I don't like this; it feels like taking a step backwards.

Edited by rpschamp

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27 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

And there's always the option to restrict access to shields again to Light Duran

Not happening.

Stat bonus instead of spells are not an option either.
If I give just stats or even leave spell slots open the ring that teaches the regeneration spell wouldn't be a tradeoff. Ok, it still has a cost in the sense that it takes a ring slot but that is a small cost to get a full healer, much less than ring slot AND a potentially valueable spell down the road.

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26 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

If I give just stats or even leave spell slots open the ring that teaches the regeneration spell wouldn't be a tradeoff. Ok, it still has a cost in the sense that it takes a ring slot but that is a small cost to get a full healer, much less than ring slot AND a potentially valueable spell down the road.

Good point.

Wouldn't the simplest solution then be to just limit the spell ring for specific classes so the regen ring would be a tradeoff? Set Kevin's max spell slots to 6 or 8 spells, for instance? Not every class needs 10 learnable spells, and it might make more sense thematically for some classes to have fewer.

Edited by rpschamp

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Even then I'd want some choice there for consistency.
3/4 Kevin classes have 8 spells currently, the last 6.
So I'd at least want a cap of 7 and a total of 9-10.

Not sure this is a good idea, this is just asking for confusion.

Well, lets continue the Kevin bashing.

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Hm for Duran and Kevin it's indeed problematic, but yeah for the sake of coinsistency I would still have them learn 10 out of 12 spells, like the rest of the characters.

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11 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Well, lets continue the Kevin bashing.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. In the past, Kevin's spells have been limited because he did the most melee damage and didn't need the versatility to compensate. Versatility, as in number of spells learned, is it's own advantage.

That is to say, typically it was Kevin doing the "bashing".

I know you have been moving away from this model, though. If you want to fill out the spell rosters thematically, Duran should get more direct damage spells and sabers, being more of a power-minded guy, and Kevin should get more buffs and support spells, being more empathetic.

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