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praetarius5018

Road to 2.0

229 posts in this topic

27 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

huh, what has more "power" than a L3 tech?

"Power" alone doesn't communicate the need to counter something; a level 2/3 tech alone won't do any extra damage, * EDIT: or have any special effect unless it's timed correctly. * "Power" might also be confusing; with "Power Up", it could simply mean that he's weak against melee, which he is in a way, since he resists every element and damage spells are mostly elemental, while melee is not.

"Charging" might by better by implying that his weakness appears while he's "charging" his killer spell.

EDIT: It's the timing, as well as the power, that's important. Maybe "power, timing" instead of "power"? Dolan can be the one exception to the one-word rule for boss weaknesses.

Edited by rpschamp

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Personally to me the sheet with bosses strength and weakness didn't help even on a single boss. Could be I am that dumb or maybe it's the fault of the games that I played that basically laid out the weakness of a boss easily to you, or am a very casual player.

In general I had to come to this site to figure out how deal with some bosses (Dolan being one of course).

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Most games today have to cater to a mass audience to be successful, and the popular wisdom for commercial game design is that nothing will make your game less successful than being too tricky to figure out.

Nintendo's "Punch-Out" ("Mike Tyson's Punch-Out" when I got it for my birthday) is my counterexample. Goddamn if those bosses didn't take some outside-the-box thinking to figure out (Soda Popinski comes to mind). And that game was so popular as to be iconic.

Edited by rpschamp

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38 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

It's the timing, as well as the power, that's important. Maybe "power, timing" instead of "power"? Dolan can be the one exception to the one-word rule for boss weaknesses.

I'll go with your first suggestion "super counter" for now.
What a counter is at least defined here. And super is just one stage "better" (L1 -> L2/3).
Timing would imo more easily give the impression of regular counter.

 

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6 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

I'll go with your first suggestion "super counter" for now.
What a counter is at least defined here. And super is just one stage "better" (L1 -> L2/3).
Timing would imo more easily give the impression of regular counter.

 

"Super counter" was the logic by which I figured it out: Killer Spiral Moon always came after Energy Ball, so I tried normal counters, which didn't work, so I upgraded. To me, Dolan will always be the Soda Popinski of Sin of Mana. Thanks :-)

Edited by rpschamp

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Duran

Spoiler

 

base:        12/11/10/8/8/8
no spells

Knight:        17/15/17/13/14/14
Heal Light (9 PIE), Protect Up (10 PIE)
Tinkle Rain (10 INT)

Gladiator:    18/16/17/14/13/13
Diamond Saber (9 INT), Thunder Saber (11 INT), Dark Saber (13 INT)

Paladin:    31/29/32/28/29/29
Tinkle Rain
Diamond Missile (14 INT), Sleep Flower (17 INT), Anti-Magic (23 INT)
Holy Ball (16 PIE), Heal Light* (20 PIE), Turn Undead* (24 PIE)
Magic Shield (18 VIT), Saint Saber (21 VIT), Protect Up* (24 VIT)
Ice Smash (18 AGL), Speed Up (22 AGL)

Lord:        32/28/31/29/28/30
Heal Light* (15 PIE), Tinkle Rain* (18 PIE), Speed Down* (22 PIE)
Speed Up* (17 AGL), Life Booster (20 AGL), Power Up (23 AGL)
Ice Saber (15 INT), Protect Up* (19 INT), Energy Ball (22 INT)
Arrows (16 LUCK), Diamond Saber (20 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Swordmaster:    32/29/31/29/28/29
Ice Saber* (15 LUCK), Dark Saber* (18 LUCK), Energy Ball (22 LUCK)
Thunder Saber* (16 INT), Analyse (19 INT), Saint Saber (24 INT)
Leaf Saber (20 STR), Diamond Saber* (23 STR), Power Up^ (26 STR)
Speed Up^ (18 AGL), Flame Saber* (21 AGL), Moon Saber (25 AGL)

Duelist:    33/30/30/30/27/28
Diamond Saber, Thunder Saber, Dark Saber
Ice Saber (20 STR), Mind Down (22 STR), Anti-Magic (25 STR)
Life Booster (18 VIT), Leaf Saber (20 VIT), Protect Down (23 VIT)
Flame Saber (16 INT), Transshape^ (19 INT), Aura Wave (22 INT)

 

 

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That looks pretty good for Duran. Makes sense for Paladin to have access to some damage spell to cast if one wants to play him as a caster with his final weapon, having access to turn undead also.

Tho I would give Lord probably Counter Magic, since God Hand so far is the only class to have it, and Lord would probably benefit from it more than having a spell like Arrows.

Edited by smileless

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He has already speed up, speed down, def up, power up, energy ball, life booster next to heal light and tinkle rain.
He's basically Vanadise without being Lise at that point.

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20 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Duran

  Reveal hidden contents

 

base:        12/11/10/8/8/8
no spells

Knight:        17/15/17/13/14/14
Heal Light (9 PIE), Protect Up (10 PIE)
Tinkle Rain (10 INT)

Gladiator:    18/16/17/14/13/13
Diamond Saber (9 INT), Thunder Saber (11 INT), Dark Saber (13 INT)

Paladin:    31/29/32/28/29/29
Tinkle Rain
Diamond Missile (14 INT), Sleep Flower (17 INT), Anti-Magic (23 INT)
Holy Ball (16 PIE), Heal Light* (20 PIE), Turn Undead* (24 PIE)
Magic Shield (18 VIT), Saint Saber (21 VIT), Protect Up* (24 VIT)
Ice Smash (18 AGL), Speed Up (22 AGL)

Lord:        32/28/31/29/28/30
Heal Light* (15 PIE), Tinkle Rain* (18 PIE), Speed Down* (22 PIE)
Speed Up* (17 AGL), Life Booster (20 AGL), Power Up (23 AGL)
Ice Saber (15 INT), Protect Up* (19 INT), Energy Ball (22 INT)
Arrows (16 LUCK), Diamond Saber (20 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Swordmaster:    32/29/31/29/28/29
Ice Saber* (15 LUCK), Dark Saber* (18 LUCK), Energy Ball (22 LUCK)
Thunder Saber* (16 INT), Analyse (19 INT), Saint Saber (24 INT)
Leaf Saber (20 STR), Diamond Saber* (23 STR), Power Up^ (26 STR)
Speed Up^ (18 AGL), Flame Saber* (21 AGL), Moon Saber (25 AGL)

Duelist:    33/30/30/30/27/28
Diamond Saber, Thunder Saber, Dark Saber
Ice Saber (20 STR), Mind Down (22 STR), Anti-Magic (25 STR)
Life Booster (18 VIT), Leaf Saber (20 VIT), Protect Down (23 VIT)
Flame Saber (16 INT), Transshape^ (19 INT), Aura Wave (22 INT)

 

 

(This is in response to the five class schemes you've posted so far (for everyone except Kevin), with two suggestions marked with an *.)

Since there's a lot of new information, I took a more general approach here by looking at the spread of abilities by element.

I love how you've spread out the sabers just slightly; this should help with options to access saber/resist. The balance of final classes who have access to these elements looks like this so far (with character/class names abbreviated):

Earth - D(3), C(2), RM - 6
Wind - D(2), C(2), RM, V, NM - 7
Ice - D(3), C(2), RM, NM - 7
Fire - D(2), C(2), RM, V - 6
Light - D(2), B, SL - 4
Dark - D(2), N, SL - 4
Leaf - D(2), S, FK - 4
Moon - SM, FK - 2

Nice distribution, with the basic four elemental sabers roughly 50% more common than the other four, and I imagine that one or two of Kevin's classes will pick up Moon Saber to balance it out.

The spread of direct damage spells is also interesting. The balance looks like this (including the multi-element spells):

Earth - A(4), C(3), H(3), P - 11
Wind - A(4), C(3), H(2), L(4) - 13
Ice - A(4), C(3), H(2), L(3), P - 13
Fire - A(4), C(3), H(3), L(2) - 12
Light - A(2), C(4), H(2), P - 9
Dark - A(3), C(3), H(3), L(2) - 11
Leaf - H(4), M, FK - 6

Looks pretty good. Compared to the saber distribution, Earth might be slightly underrepresented, which is thematically a little weird since it's the most basic of the basic elements. This could be solved by giving one or two of Kevin's classes access to an Earth element direct damage spell.

* Maybe Rock Fall could go on God Hand or Warrior Monk? I see this as similar in spirit to Monk's Earth Slash from Final Fantasy Tactics (though that may have been non-elemental). Kevin certainly would have the strength to push a few boulders. This would also help spread out Light Hawk's abilities a little more.

Dark might be overrepresented, but I don't see this as much of a problem, since some of these spells seem more intended to spread out access to Curse. And with so few Leaf spells, I think you've done a good job of making them more accessible.

Overall, the new class schemes look great, and I have only one other suggestion at this point:

* I never understood Leaf Saber on Duelist, thematically (my understanding is that it's a relic from Duelist's former final weapon, which consumed MP). It seems like it would be a better fit on Lord, who is more of a helper class. Also, Lord's Power Up seems like it would be a better fit on Duelist, giving him another spell to increase his tech power, and making him the only one of Duran's classes with both Power Up and Protect Down (Kevin has two). If you don't feel strongly about it otherwise, you might consider exchanging these spells between these two classes.

Edited by rpschamp

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[numbers]
I didn't really pay attention to how those distributions end up, only that they kinda fit with the class idea I had.

Also you missed non-elemental (damage) spells.
One boss is pseudo weak to them (resist all other elements) and a few mobs could be said to be in the same boat.

14 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I never understood Leaf Saber on Duelist, thematically (my understanding is that it's a relic from Duelist's former final weapon, which consumed MP). It seems like it would be a better fit on Lord, who is more of a helper class. Also, Lord's Power Up seems like it would be a better fit on Duelist, giving him another spell to increase his tech power, and making him the only one of Duran's classes with both Power Up and Protect Down (Kevin has two). If you don't feel strongly about it otherwise, you might consider exchanging these spells between these two classes.

Leaf Saber feeds into Aura Wave. Aura Wave gives 5 TP per cast and with the global TP nerf (max once per attack) this might now actually be useful to repeatedly use.

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34 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Also you missed non-elemental (damage) spells.

I also missed physical element spells, which are important in their own way, but didn't effect the kind of balance I had in mind.

34 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Leaf Saber feeds into Aura Wave. Aura Wave gives 5 TP per cast and with the global TP nerf (max once per attack) this might now actually be useful to repeatedly use.

Got it - Duelist is * feeling * the Aura Wave. I also think it will work out better this round.

Edited by rpschamp

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Kevin

Spoiler

 

base:        10/9/10/8/8/8
no spells

Monk:        15/14/18/13/14/14
Power Up (16 CON), Heal Light (11 PIE)

Bashkar:    16/15/18/14/13/13
no spells

God Hand:    29/29/32/28/29/29
Heal Light (15 PIE), Moon Saber (18 PIE), Double Spell* (22 PIE)
Mind Down (16 INT), Ice Saber (20 INT), Aura Wave (25 INT)
Tinkle Rain* (16 AGL), Power Up* (20 AGL), Life Booster (25 AGL)
Protect Down (15 LUCK), Saint Saber (19 LUCK), Counter Magic (23 LUCK)

Warrior Monk:    28/30/31/29/28/30
Transshape (15 PIE), Power Down (18 PIE), Heal Light* (22 PIE)
Leaf Saber (16 INT), Power Up* (21 INT), Mind Down (26 INT)
Body Change (16 AGL), Energy Ball (20 AGL), Water Jutsu (25 AGL)
Speed Down (15 LUCK), Fire Breath (19 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Dervish:    29/30/33/29/28/29
Fire Breath (15 PIE), Power Down (18 PIE), Anti-Magic (22 PIE)
Moon Saber (16 INT), Protect Down (21 INT), Half Vanish (26 INT)
Poison Breath (16 AGL), Energy Ball (20 AGL), Power Up (25 AGL)
Speed Down (15 LUCK), Rockfall (19 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Death Hand:    30/31/32/30/27/28
Dark Force* (15 PIE), Leaf Saber (18 PIE), Rockfall (22 PIE)
Magic Shield (16 INT), Flame Saber (20 INT), Aura Wave (25 INT)
Body Change* (16 AGL), Thunder Jutsu (20 AGL), Lunatic* (25 AGL)
Speed Up* (15 LUCK), Dark Saber* (19 LUCK), Demon Breath* (23 LUCK)

 

I'm not entirely sold on this.
Since most Kevin classes have like 6-7 spells currently going up to 10 (out of 12) is a major buff.
So I made his stat requirement much steeper than anyone else's, like usually it is 2-3 point between each spell here it is up to 5.

And anyone that sees the sets of Godhand/Deathhand or W.Monk/Dervish as obvious counterparts is surly imagining things.

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Spoiler

Must admit lore wise it's kinda weird seing Kevin get Double Spell.

Some requirement seems weird, like Death Hand need 22 PIE for Rockfall ? A spell that scales with Luck not mentionning you get Dark Force MT for only 15 PIE which IIRC is stronger. 

Or Warrior Monk needing 25 AGL for Water Jutsu while he can get Power Down for only 18 PIE, and Power Down unlike Water Jutsu can be make MT with Whitelight Ring and isn't affected by elemental resistance, I don't know like it is I really don't see any reasons to go for Water Jutsu.

So if I follow the thread well your plan is only allowing the player to get 10 spells out of the 12 possibles.

 

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As I said, I've no idea what to do with Kevin. There's only so little that fits him thematically.

10 hours ago, Nesouk said:

Must admit lore wise it's kinda weird seing Kevin get Double Spell.

I didn't want to give all 4 classes the same spells and "god"hand having say over the elements doesn't seem too far off to me.
Also its mostly meant as a penalty for going for high heal power early.
Kevin was imo good enough as he was and with the change he gain up to 4 extra spells for free. I needed some garbage to fill his spell slots, really.

10 hours ago, Nesouk said:

Some requirement seems weird, like Death Hand need 22 PIE for Rockfall ? A spell that scales with Luck not mentionning you get Dark Force MT for only 15 PIE which IIRC is stronger. 

Or Warrior Monk needing 25 AGL for Water Jutsu while he can get Power Down for only 18 PIE, and Power Down unlike Water Jutsu can be make MT with Whitelight Ring and isn't affected by elemental resistance, I don't know like it is I really don't see any reasons to go for Water Jutsu.

Kevin gets bonus spell damage from PIE.
But yeah, trading Rockfall and Dark Force makes sense, Power Down and Water Jutsu as well.

So take 2:

Spoiler

God Hand:    29/29/32/28/29/29
Heal Light (15 PIE), Moon Saber (18 PIE), Double Spell* (22 PIE)
Mind Down (16 INT), Ice Saber (20 INT), Aura Wave (25 INT)
Tinkle Rain* (16 AGL), Power Up* (20 AGL), Life Booster (25 AGL)
Protect Down (15 LUCK), Saint Saber (19 LUCK), Counter Magic (23 LUCK)

Warrior Monk:    28/30/31/29/28/30
Transshape (15 PIE), Water Jutsu (18 PIE), Heal Light* (22 PIE)
Leaf Saber (16 INT), Power Up* (21 INT), Mind Down (26 INT)
Body Change (16 AGL), Energy Ball (20 AGL), Power Down (25 AGL)
Speed Down (15 LUCK), Fire Breath (19 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Dervish:    29/30/33/29/28/29
Fire Breath (15 PIE), Power Down (18 PIE), Anti-Magic (22 PIE)
Moon Saber (16 INT), Protect Down (21 INT), Half Vanish (26 INT)
Poison Breath (16 AGL), Energy Ball (20 AGL), Power Up (25 AGL)
Speed Down (15 LUCK), Rockfall (19 LUCK), Analyse (23 LUCK)

Death Hand:    30/31/32/30/27/28
Rockfall (15 PIE), Leaf Saber (18 PIE), Dark Force* (22 PIE)
Magic Shield (16 INT), Flame Saber (20 INT), Aura Wave (25 INT)
Body Change* (16 AGL), Thunder Jutsu (20 AGL), Lunatic* (25 AGL)
Speed Up* (15 LUCK), Dark Saber* (19 LUCK), Demon Breath* (23 LUCK)

 

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26 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

So take 2:

  Reveal hidden contents

I can see that you've given Warrior Monk and Dervish both Energy Ball and Analyze. I like this a lot. This is kind of the same idea I was going for with my Pressure Point suggestion - Kevin can maintain Energy Ball as upkeep, and add Analyze during battle, making him a critical hit master. I think the only other class with both of these is Swordmaster.

I like Water Jutsu on Warrior Monk, thematically. Who doesn't like the idea of monks meditating beneath near-freezing waterfalls?

I also like the idea of Double Spell on God Hand as kind of a Wrath of God attack.

I just have a few suggestions to fine-tune things:

- God Hand trades Counter Magic for Lunatic or Holy Ball. Being stuck on single-target, Counter Magic is kind of a boring spell, especially with Magic Shield upstaging it. I would just get rid of it all together.

- Warrior Monk trades Fire Breath for Rockfall. Thematically, this would keep with the waterfall training idea. I don't see why a monk would learn to breathe fire.

- Death Hand trades Rockfall for Fire Breath. He can learn Demon Breath later, so Fire Breath would be a reasonable precursor; plus, he already has enough elements without Earth.

Edited by rpschamp

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19 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

- God Hand trades Counter Magic for Lunatic or Holy Ball. Being stuck on single-target, Counter Magic is kind of a boring spell, especially with Magic Shield upstaging it. I would just get rid of it all together.

I don't want Lunatic on GH since he already has Life Booster. And Holy Ball would make him too similar to Paladin.

21 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I don't see why a monk would learn to breathe fire.

He's a martial artist, OF COURSE he needs a proper breathing technique.

22 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

- Death Hand trades Rockfall for Fire Breath. He can learn Demon Breath later, so Fire Breath would be a reasonable precursor; plus, he already has enough elements without Earth.

Kevin learns Flame Saber. I'm not ok with him getting such a good caster combo (L2 spell based on AGL which helps him in melee AND same element saber).
For D. Breath you need Anti-Magic way more often and it runs on PIE after you have invested about 10 LUCK, 1/6 th of your total stat gain, just to unlock this one spell.

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20 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Bashkar:    16/15/18/14/13/13
no spells

Since Dervish and Death Hand both learn Rockfall, why not also give it to Bashkar to give him something to do with his MP? With Bastard Slam, Bashkar seems like a guy who could throw some rocks.

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:
1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

I don't see why a monk would learn to breathe fire.

He's a martial artist, OF COURSE he needs a proper breathing technique.

So you're turning Warrior Monk into Dhalsim? Why not give him Fireball instead to bring him closer to Ryu?

EDIT: More seriously, one of the Jutsus might be another option that uses his AGI. He already gets Speed and Mind Down, so Fire or Earth Jutsu might be a good choice. Earth Jutsu would give him another element, and also separate him a bit more from Dervish.

1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:
1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

- God Hand trades Counter Magic for Lunatic or Holy Ball. Being stuck on single-target, Counter Magic is kind of a boring spell, especially with Magic Shield upstaging it. I would just get rid of it all together.

I don't want Lunatic on GH since he already has Life Booster. And Holy Ball would make him too similar to Paladin.

I still think that something needs to be done with Counter Magic. I don't think many players would ever choose to learn this - God Hand is going to raise PIE anyways to boost his Heal Light, so it's not like he really needs this spell. Plus, no other class can use this. Maybe make it multi-target so at least its not a off-brand Magic Shield?

20 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

And anyone that sees the sets of Godhand/Deathhand or W.Monk/Dervish as obvious counterparts is surly imagining things.

If you really want to do this, then God Hand needs multi-target Life Booster.

Edited by rpschamp

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32 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Since Dervish and Death Hand both learn Rockfall, why not also give it to Bashkar to give him something to do with his MP? With Bastard Slam, Bashkar seems like a guy who could throw some rocks.

Not sure, it'd kinda ruin Bashkar's uniqueness.

32 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

So you're turning Warrior Monk into Dhalsim? Why not give him Fireball instead to bring him closer to Ryu?

That would change not too much.
Fireball is INT which is better on a Lv2/3 tech guy, breath AGL for L1 tech.
Don't care either way.

36 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I still think that something needs to be done with Counter Magic. I don't think many players would ever choose to learn this - God Hand is going to raise PIE anyways to boost his Heal Light, so it's not like he really needs this spell. Plus, no other class can use this. Maybe make it multi-target so at least its not a off-brand Magic Shield?

He's already Mind Down, Aura Wave, Power Up, Life Booster, Protect Down and Counter Magic which is a lot options for support.
Mind Down + Counter Magic is already maxed magic defense.
I don't think he needs more.

39 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

If you really want to do this, then God Hand needs multi-target Life Booster.

Apart from not having a non-crashing spell animation - nope, he already has more support option than I feel he should have.

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3 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:
47 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Since Dervish and Death Hand both learn Rockfall, why not also give it to Bashkar to give him something to do with his MP? With Bastard Slam, Bashkar seems like a guy who could throw some rocks.

Not sure, it'd kinda ruin Bashkar's uniqueness.

I love Bashkar (awesome colors, Bastard Slam; I'm actually playing him right now), but Warrior Monk gets Power Up, making him potentially a more powerful fighter in addition to learning Heal Light.

If you REALLY want to make Bashkar unique, bring back Pressure Point for a 10-20% melee/tech boost after modifications.

10 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

Fireball is INT which is better on a Lv2/3 tech guy, breath AGL for L1 tech.

Yeah, I didn't think that through. Warrior Monk should stick with AGI. Fire Breath is fine, but Fire or Earth Jutsu might be better thematically. Plus it would distinguish him more from Dervish.

12 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

He's already Mind Down, Aura Wave, Power Up, Life Booster, Protect Down and Counter Magic which is a lot options for support.
Mind Down + Counter Magic is already maxed magic defense.
I don't think he needs more.

What if you made Counter Magic self-cast only, but also with an Matk boost so he could have a way to improve his Double Spell? This would make it quite distinct from Magic Shield, and give players an option if they want to increase God Hand's multi-target damage options. Like you said, he already has quite a few support options.

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22 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

I love Bashkar (awesome colors, Bastard Slam; I'm actually playing him right now), but Warrior Monk gets Power Up, making him potentially a more powerful fighter

No, Monk only gets Power Up if you beat the desert area before doing the class change.
So if at all it matters for one area (desert -> snowfield -> class change).

24 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

If you REALLY want to make Bashkar unique, bring back Pressure Point for a 10-20% melee/tech boost after modifications.

Not happening. There are already WAY too many buffs. Especially since everything stacks multiplicatively.

26 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

What if you made Counter Magic self-cast only, but also with an Matk boost so he could have a way to improve his Double Spell?

So mind up?
Considering a potential auto-buff armor is still on the table - nope.

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2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

So mind up?

Yeah, I meant it as a Mind Up that could only be self-cast and not upgraded with Whitelight Ring, but it sounds like it's one too many buffs. And it doesn't make the spell any more distinctive since it does the same thing as Mind Up, so you might as well leave Counter Magic the way it is.

I'm also coming around to the idea of a fire-breathing monk, though I think Fire Jutsu or Earth Jutsu could be a good replacement if Warrior Monk is too similar to Dervish.

I think 10-spell Kevin looks pretty good.

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On 5/15/2020 at 2:36 PM, praetarius5018 said:

expand on stat requirement for spell learning and limit known spells to 10, maybe add some spells to classes that have less than 12 spells to add some choices

I've been thinking lately about your decision to give every final class the same number of spells. It's an interesting idea, very different from the base game and most other games of this type, and I'm interested in your design thoughts.

I think I generally understand what you're going for - it's not the number of spells that matters, but how they can be used. Angela and Carlie (I actually typed Charlie), for instance, can get more mileage out of their INT and PIE stats through their spells, whereas other characters get more mileage through physical stats and may learn spells to work with those. Also, characters with complete sets like Lise or Dark Hawk can be more easily aligned with team strategies, and some spells are just useful in more situations than others. All this can be used to balance power.

I can see why you have to be very careful about what you add or subtract, or any changes made to stats.

By giving everyone 10 spells, you allow more teams to cover important skills, and roughly level the sacrifice for any unlearned spells or learnable spell equipment. Half the fun of this game is coming up with new teams and new strategies anyways, so anything to enhance this should be good as long as it doesn't lead to OP situations.

Do I have this right? Or are there other reasons?

Also, are you considering putting any other learnable spells on equipment?

Edited by rpschamp

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6 hours ago, rpschamp said:

 

Also, are you considering putting any other learnable spells on equipment?

Only the regeneration ring (cursed) so far.
Since learning a spell should be a big(ger) deal now any item that teaches a spell would have to be cursed anyway.
And imo no spell is as big a change as healing.

6 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Do I have this right? Or are there other reasons?

More or less.

For 2.0 I wanted to cut down a bit on mechanics that are "just there".
Like you technically have a limit of 12 learnable spells but also 12 spell slots max, neither of which really matter in the game; as long as learnable <= spell slots one of those values is meaningless. Same with stat requirements for spell learning, yes it is there but in the end it doesn't really encourage a choice for the player, like most of Angela's spell require INT to learn, a stat she'd want anyway, so the learning "just happens".

Does this change lead to more viable variants of the same class? Maybe, maybe not.
Some spells are simply less valueable so it is very possible that for some classes there is an obvious "best".

Same with the cursed attribute, it is present on one ring and that's it.
That concept gets a little rework and a few more items that use, plus a potential Lv60 bonus that profits from the number of equipped cursed items.

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I don't even know if this is even possible...

Can you to make the game into one giant "play as everyone" game?  In short, you don't pick who you play as in the beginning, but play as everyone.  So in the beginning, you start as Duran, and play his tutorial stage, then Kevin, then Hawk, and so on.  And somewhere in the middle, you meet other characters.  They join, then they leave after certain plot, and so on.  And after the first Mana Holyland, you can choose who you take for Mana Beasts fights (Duran in Forcena, Kevin in Moonlight City, Hawk in Oasis city, etc).  And the final dungeons would be tackled one at a time, with the first two being the "normal" characters, and the 3rd character being whomever you choose.

That would be crazy awesome, but I have a feeling that'll be near impossible since you'd have to introduce new storyline and everything.

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