praetarius5018

Seiken Densetsu 3 Sin of Mana - Discussion

188 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Then tell me how to reproduce it.
I tried - for 3 hours. No bug.

I honnestly have no clue I will see if I have any mean to go back before that happen (maybe restart a game for test) but to make things even more complicate, for whatever reason I reopen the game just now and now I could sell Silver Circlet (still couldn't equip it tough) then I sell it (sell for the 287 Luc by the way ^^) and guess what after I sell it (and I Buy nor sell anything else) when I go back to the armor menu of Carlie the Leather Visor is back once again.... and I can't sell it so yeah I really don't understand what is going on here.

EDIT : OK I realise something I reload my save before I sell the Silver Circlet and then try to sell another armor and I realise that even if I don't sell the Silver Circlet no matter what armor I sell the Leather Visor pop at the very bottom of the armor menu, more thing when he pop at the bottom I can't sell it but when I switch Armor He start going up case by case once he is at the case just after my last armor then I can sell it.

Edited by Nesouk
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Posted (edited)

Is this reproducable on that savegame? If so and it is is not a savestate, please send me the .srm file, that contains the normal savegames.

anyone that was around back when - do you remember when you could sell "time"? (the timer for MP regen)
this time you're basically selling death B|

Edited by praetarius5018
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1 hour ago, praetarius5018 said:

this time you're basically selling death B|

Does this mean the items are accidentally added to your inventory when you receive a death penalty, or maybe when you're sleeping at an inn to recover from DP?

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v1.032

  • increased monster level on Golden Road where you only need to go later from 10 to 13
  • fixed bug that allowed to "sell death penalty"
  • fixed bug that added armors when selling with a character that has death penalty
  • reduced cost of Stone Cloud, Stun Wind, Cold Blaze and Blaze Wall from 10 to 9

in RAM the next entry after the 8th armor is the death penalty.
When you sell armor it moves all "armors" behind the sold one one slot in front so there are no gaps.
Except SD3 goes one slot too far. So it moves the death penalty into the 8th armor slot.
It is all numbers in the end, so "died but slept in an inn" is the same as Duran's first helm, "died, slept, than died once more but did not sleep" is "Silver Circlet".
Makes perfect sense. To the game at least.

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Thanks for the patch! I've got a question about applying additional patches. I typically like using optional patches, such as the one that restores saving in Ghost Ship, and the one that skips spell animations. Will everything work correctly if I apply them to a vanilla, non-headered ROM, and only after that I apply the latest patch of Sin of Mana? It's quite troublesome first applying the latest patch, and then applying all the optional patches all over again.

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No, the optional stuff has to go last.

I basically create some "do nothing" instructions where the function calls of the optional patches will go.
The optional patches just replace "do nothing" with a function call.
But if you apply the main patch it will write the "do nothing"s again there.

May I ask what is troublesome about this process?
Usually you'd just need to double click the patch and then select the ROM.

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What program do you use? This is what I typically do, when I'm using SnesROMUtil:

1) Patch SEIKEN3_noheader.smc with the latest patch ips.

2) (optional) Backup the newly created ROM in case I don't want to play with any of the optional patches.

3) Apply patch ghostship_savepoint.ips to SEIKEN3_noheaderSeiken Densetsu 3 (J)_sinofmana_v1032.smc (or whatever the patch is called).

4) Apply patch skippable_spell_animation.ips to this.

5) Delete old SEIKEN3_Hard.smc, rename SEIKEN3_noheaderSeiken Densetsu 3 (J)_sinofmana_v1032ghostship_savepointskippable_spell_animation.smc (whew, what a name monster! ^^;) into SEIKEN3_Hard.smc. Delete the intermediate ROMs.

6) Apply tough, normal, easy and wuss patches to SEIKEN3_Hard.smc, delete old tough, normal, easy and wuss ROM files, rename the patched files into SEIKEN3_Tough.smc, SEIKEN3_Normal.smc, SEIKEN3_Easy.smc and SEIKEN3_Wuss.smc.

Not exactly hard, but it's tedious to do after every patch, especially if there will be frequent patches.

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I just have LunarIPS set as default for .ips files.

Then a double click on an ips file opens the dialog where I have to choose the ROM, select it, press ok, done.
No renaming or deleting.

Also you can patch the difficulty patches over each other, no need to keep 5 separate ROMs.

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Posted (edited)

Alright so got the first change class then I got in the area prior the crystal to gain a LV (well I basically level up to LV20 in one fight) to learn te first spell and gain some stat, so I tried the boss and I get recht cause I had some casualities on the way and some death penalty and AoE Defense Down + Supersonic effectivly hurts my character a lot so I got ALL the way back to the town sleep at a Inn and then go all the way to the boss (also was wearing the very first armors for the XP bonus all the time and did all the battle so I went up LV22 on the way back to the boss also for mobs these knights are pretty scary), at the end of the day the boss wasn't that bad throwable items are so much usefull (especially the Earth Coin for this boss) some Protect Up with Lise (specially on Hawk since he is the one with the least HP), Carlie spam Holy Ball, use an item that give Earth Element to weapon for Hawk and Lise and just finish him with regular attack and LV2 skill tough it was confusing to see when I could actually attack him directly since he flies, didn't use Hawk's Earth Jutsu I guess it could have been usefull but for now the casting time is to high I will have to give him some point to PIE.

Tzenker

 

Edited by Nesouk
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Nesouk, I see you chose Valkyrie, Ninja and Priestess as your 2nd classes. A combination of Light Lise, Dark Hawk and Light Carlie is pretty solid in both the vanilla game and this hack. You'll have all stat-ups, all stat-downs, healing and sabers. Your team is physically somewhat fragile, as Lise is your only heavy-hitter and tank, and your team consists of 3 support-oriented characters rather than direct damage dealers. You should be fine most of the time, but these are the biggest threats I see for your team:

1) You won't have much elemental magic to strike against enemy weaknesses, although a combination of Mind Up + Fire Jutsu (if applicable) + Saber that exploits enemy weakness + Jutsu of that same element can somewhat make up for it.

2) You won't have Anti-Magic for your team. For bosses, you can probably farm or buy Specter's Eyes (just remember, they cost 3000+ a piece), but in regular fights, the lack of Anti-Magic may be very problematic. If an enemy absorbs some element or is immune to it, that means Hawk's Jutsus won't work against them, so you'll be unable to apply those debuffs. Especially if an enemy is immune to physical attacks, there's not much you can do against them without Anti-Magic, except spam offensive spells, which aren't exactly your strong point (see Note 1) above). Enemies like Giga Crawlers, Slime Princes, Carmillas, Blood Wolves, Wolf Devils, Gremlins and Boulders will be very tough enemies for you, since you have no good ways of taking them down. Status ailments are probably your best choice for defeating them.

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Here is how i dealt so far with those enemys since i have a similiar team, starlancer/ninjamaster/lord
slime princes/giga crawlers really dont like mindup fire jutsu attacks (flamecoins from zombies,if you fight at night, are also really good against the early slimes)
against carmillas i used durans in your case carlies heal light on them and for the wolfs i recommend a poison weapon at least on 1 character at all times
you have holy magic on carlie for gremlins and you can poison them
just run from boulders :D

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There are two basic types of physical "immunity".
One that has an immunity to physical (meaning half taken damage early game and quartered for high tier enemies) like a fire elemental is immune to fire - those can be removed with anti-magic and bypassed with weapons like Acala, Pain Tooth and Satan Flail.
The other, rarer kind (afaik only one very late boss) has maxed out physical defense, the same stat armors give you. Here anti-magic is useless.
You can theoretically increase your attack value high enough to bypass that with very specific items but any such setup leaves you a one hit wonder.

Jutsus are still physical attacks but not "physical element". Meaning they are ok against the first kind but useless against the second kind.

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9 hours ago, LittleBigTrouble said:

Here is how i dealt so far with those enemys since i have a similiar team, starlancer/ninjamaster/lord
slime princes/giga crawlers really dont like mindup fire jutsu attacks (flamecoins from zombies,if you fight at night, are also really good against the early slimes)
against carmillas i used durans in your case carlies heal light on them and for the wolfs i recommend a poison weapon at least on 1 character at all times
you have holy magic on carlie for gremlins and you can poison them
just run from boulders :D

 

These are good hints. Poison could be dangerous against the Wolves, as it will make them more eager to use Suzaku Sky Dance or Seiryu Death Fist, but you can use petrify against them. Stone Cloud should kill them, or if you can save up for one petrify-inflicting weapon from Wendel/Pedan, that would definitely be helpful. Boulders can be poisoned or petrified. :D

 

2 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

There are two basic types of physical "immunity".
One that has an immunity to physical (meaning half taken damage early game and quartered for high tier enemies) like a fire elemental is immune to fire - those can be removed with anti-magic and bypassed with weapons like Acala, Pain Tooth and Satan Flail.
The other, rarer kind (afaik only one very late boss) has maxed out physical defense, the same stat armors give you. Here anti-magic is useless.
You can theoretically increase your attack value high enough to bypass that with very specific items but any such setup leaves you a one hit wonder.

Jutsus are still physical attacks but not "physical element". Meaning they are ok against the first kind but useless against the second kind.

 

I hope this boss isn't a certain colored Rabite who you should never hit with spells as he always counters them. O.o
I can't test in my current game since I don't have Sabers, but if an enemy is immune to physical attacks (the first type) and you use Sabers that hit the enemy's weakness, how well will the Sabered physical attacks damage the enemy?

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14 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

These are good hints. Poison could be dangerous against the Wolves, as it will make them more eager to use Suzaku Sky Dance or Seiryu Death Fist, but you can use petrify against them.

No, no, no! Poison is the right answer! ESPECIALLY against their boss!

14 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

I hope this boss isn't a certain colored Rabite who you should never hit with spells as he always counters them. O.o

a: no
b: that is not how counters work anymore in this hack

14 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

I can't test in my current game since I don't have Sabers, but if an enemy is immune to physical attacks (the first type) and you use Sabers that hit the enemy's weakness, how well will the Sabered physical attacks damage the enemy?

with saber your regular attack will be physical element AND the saber's element, multiplicatively.
So you'll deal 1.5 times 0 damage.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

No, no, no! Poison is the right answer! ESPECIALLY against their boss!

Was this sarcasm or seriously speaking? xD Whenever I poisoned the Bloody Wolves in the Moonreading Tower with poison weapons, it felt like they went on a happy spree of Suzaku Sky Dance.

EDIT:

Quote

The other, rarer kind (afaik only one very late boss) has maxed out physical defense, the same stat armors give you. Here anti-magic is useless.

I think I've found two such bosses:

Spoiler

Xan Bie's minion and Zable-Fahr's right head.

 

Edited by Serafie1999AD
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On 04/10/2017 at 0:06 AM, Serafie1999AD said:

Nesouk, I see you chose Valkyrie, Ninja and Priestess as your 2nd classes. A combination of Light Lise, Dark Hawk and Light Carlie is pretty solid in both the vanilla game and this hack. You'll have all stat-ups, all stat-downs, healing and sabers. Your team is physically somewhat fragile, as Lise is your only heavy-hitter and tank, and your team consists of 3 support-oriented characters rather than direct damage dealers. You should be fine most of the time, but these are the biggest threats I see for your team:

1) You won't have much elemental magic to strike against enemy weaknesses, although a combination of Mind Up + Fire Jutsu (if applicable) + Saber that exploits enemy weakness + Jutsu of that same element can somewhat make up for it.

2) You won't have Anti-Magic for your team. For bosses, you can probably farm or buy Specter's Eyes (just remember, they cost 3000+ a piece), but in regular fights, the lack of Anti-Magic may be very problematic. If an enemy absorbs some element or is immune to it, that means Hawk's Jutsus won't work against them, so you'll be unable to apply those debuffs. Especially if an enemy is immune to physical attacks, there's not much you can do against them without Anti-Magic, except spam offensive spells, which aren't exactly your strong point (see Note 1) above). Enemies like Giga Crawlers, Slime Princes, Carmillas, Blood Wolves, Wolf Devils, Gremlins and Boulders will be very tough enemies for you, since you have no good ways of taking them down. Status ailments are probably your best choice for defeating them.

Thanks for the tips I take note

Quote

Jutsus are still physical attacks but not "physical element". Meaning they are ok against the first kind but useless against the second kind.

So Jutsus are neutral ? Meaning I can use for instance a Fire Jutsu on an ennemy that absorbs Fire ?

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12 hours ago, Serafie1999AD said:

Was this sarcasm or seriously speaking? xD Whenever I poisoned the Bloody Wolves in the Moonreading Tower with poison weapons, it felt like they went on a happy spree of Suzaku Sky Dance.

Yes.

Spoiler

While it may be an easter egg that gets you killed, it should show you that not all bosses are immune to every status effect.
Specifically there are 4 bosses vulnerable to poison, silence or sleep.

12 hours ago, Serafie1999AD said:

I think I've found two such bosses:

weird, I could have sworn the former had the other kind

8 hours ago, Nesouk said:

So Jutsus are neutral ? Meaning I can use for instance a Fire Jutsu on an ennemy that absorbs Fire ?

No, they are fire elemental and hit against physical defense.
You can use them against fire absorbing enemies after you use anti-magc on them. Only then will the debuff work.

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OK I am at a boss named Genova and in all seriously I don't see how I am suppose to beat this guy, his minions seems to take Random form which makes the fight basically random dependly of which form they take, he use so many that I'm sometime completly unable to open the menu, the room is so small that casting spell is almost a guaranteed to get your character killed, and of course he has AoE version of Protect Down, Attack Up and Mind Down, I check on internet and it doesn't seems I can exploit his weakness I saw that Moon Coin can reduce his Max HP but that doesn't really help me. 

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ah Genova ^^ since he summons swarms of minions praetarius didnt give him much health (i would assume) if you are controlling hawk use his backslash/lvl 1 tech instead of silhoutte slice, if not change his behaviour in the menue before hand.
he took me a couple tries too but at somepoint he died to multitarget damage from hawk and lises lvl 2 tech and i didnt even focus on him
dont be shy to spamm item seeds, carlie is weak to earth so rocklide will do a lot of damage, use dreamsee herbs till you are not on a fire (meltwave) or earth day (spikes earthslide)

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Yeah, in general watch what "day" it is in the menu; if it matches to the element the boss uses change it ASAP because it boosts all damage of that kind.
Stay at an INN, use dreamsee herbs or just run another round to the dungeon.

 

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

 I check on internet and it doesn't seems I can exploit his weakness I saw that Moon Coin can reduce his Max HP but that doesn't really help me.

That won't help much; I changed AI behaviour, stats AND weaknesses.
Btw. the stove is weak to ice and earth, most classes can abuse the later weakness earlier so I gave him both.

If you don't have diamond saber, buy the respective claw in the black market in byzel for your main attacker.

Also, be happy: in the original you fight a second much tougher boss right after with no option to leave inbetween.

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27 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

If you don't have diamond saber, buy the respective claw in the black market in byzel for your main attacker.

You can't backtrack to Byzel if you've already started the battle of Rolante.

 

I've got a question for those who play on the hardest difficulty: how hard is the money management there? If you need to spend all your money on restocking healing items all the time, will you ever be able to afford any of the more costly weapons or armor? Even on lower difficulties, I just skip the last sets of armor, as paying over 30k for such a highly specialized armor just doesn't feel worth it.

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i play on highest difficulty but im only lvl 55 atm , preparing for my second of the 8 GBs.
Beastman collars on all characters and i usually go to golden road and aoe jutsu everything, i ignore  treasure chest during those sessions thou, the traps are not worth candys and item seeds

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Hey there, nothing to contribute yet other than: I've been readin' the updates on this mod for a while now. I meant to get into it earlier, but I lost some of my incentive since I couldn't seem to register on the old forum. Anyway, neither here nor there. Thank you for all of your hard creativity, diligence, and implementation on this project, praetarius! I look forward to sinking my teeth into a fresh take on one of my favorite games from adolescence. 

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5 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Yeah, in general watch what "day" it is in the menu; if it matches to the element the boss uses change it ASAP because it boosts all damage of that kind.
Stay at an INN, use dreamsee herbs or just run another round to the dungeon.

 

That won't help much; I changed AI behaviour, stats AND weaknesses.
Btw. the stove is weak to ice and earth, most classes can abuse the later weakness earlier so I gave him both.

If you don't have diamond saber, buy the respective claw in the black market in byzel for your main attacker.

Also, be happy: in the original you fight a second much tougher boss right after with no option to leave inbetween.

Well I have Diamond Saber but honnestly Diamond Saber + Thunder Jutsu to decrease Genova's Defense aren't that great, but my real problem with Genova is more surviving him I am on Gnome Day, with his minion does damage, he freeze the action with his spells many time I can't open the menu to heal or cast spell, in the end he just kill me on time or because I just couldn't open the fucking menu to cast the items.

I think I will just reload a previous save before Rolante's Fight see if I can get better equipment, grind and refill my healing items cause right now I clearly have no way to beat him.

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