praetarius5018

Seiken Densetsu 3 Sin of Mana - Discussion

834 posts in this topic

there are 3 Carmilla in Volcano Isle Bucca,how can i beat them?i got lvl 30 against lvl 32.i did like 10 damage,they did 50 around.

is there something wrong? the path blocked,can't even pass. 

i did 40 damage to  the other monsters.

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You have 2 ways :

1-You counter them, counter bypass physical résistances and will deal damage.

2-You use Heal Light on them, be aware that Heal Light can't kill so you'll have to finish them off normally.

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12 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

1-You counter them, counter bypass physical résistances and will deal damage.

2-You use Heal Light on them, be aware that Heal Light can't kill so you'll have to finish them off normally.

i tried on more, this battle last 8 minutes. duran 12 mp for Protect Up (one ) in beginning. equipped with Whitelight Ring then 

Protect Up (all) . they still did like 50 damages, i use item and heal light so many.so after i killed one of them, they use one skill kill 2 of us.

so pointless. 

1.counter? i don't get it. weapon got counter+ 17 what is that mean?

2.how can i use heal light on them, i can't point them.

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2 hours ago, shiliwei said:

i tried on more, this battle last 8 minutes. duran 12 mp for Protect Up (one ) in beginning. equipped with Whitelight Ring then 

Protect Up (all) . they still did like 50 damages, i use item and heal light so many.so after i killed one of them, they use one skill kill 2 of us.

so pointless. 

1.counter? i don't get it. weapon got counter+ 17 what is that mean?

2.how can i use heal light on them, i can't point them.

1. A "counter" happens when you land a normal attack (or level 1 tech) against an enemy that's just about to hit you.  This is pretty difficult to do intentionally, in my experience.

2. By holding down the Y button when selecting a spell you can cast spells on the "wrong" targets.  You can cast heal light on the Carmillas, for example.

 

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52 minutes ago, Mr. Cantaloupe said:

1. A "counter" happens when you land a normal attack (or level 1 tech) against an enemy that's just about to hit you.  This is pretty difficult to do intentionally, in my experience.

2. By holding down the Y button when selecting a spell you can cast spells on the "wrong" targets.  You can cast heal light on the Carmillas, for example.

thank you

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Counters are performed when you use level 1 techs shortly after an enemy performs an attack be it physical or magical.

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17 hours ago, Mr. Cantaloupe said:

I was using the menu exploit on enemies.

I think I got it...

I halved the frequency at which a ton of shit is checked, cast time block in menu being one of it (technically I just increment the cast ready destination by x frames every x frames) and I forgot to double the added delay there... good catch.

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weapon skill:non-elemental spells take element of saber for weakness, resistance and immunity purposes but not absorb, reflect or hp/mp heal

what is this really mean?

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there is a bug:can't use lvl 3 tech if TP overflow.

and what is "heal hurts"

Edited by shiliwei

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44 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

what is TP overflow

"low chance to deny enemy counter attack, +2 TP on evade " armor special. character wear it, can't use tech after player over 9 TP. it happened so many times to me.

and can you explain "heal hurts" pls?  

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10 minutes ago, shiliwei said:

"low chance to deny enemy counter attack, +2 TP on evade " armor special. character wear it, can't use tech after player over 9 TP. it happened so many times to me.

Please be more precise.
If I have 8 TP, dodge to trigger the effect I can still use L3 tech afterwards.

10 minutes ago, shiliwei said:

and can you explain "heal hurts" pls?  

Exactly what it says, getting healed hurts instead.

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 i know why i can't use tech now.

u can't use tech if all TP got form enemy missed. that is why i can't use tech every time against boss. cuz i use spell all the time in beginning.

post wrong topic:$

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godbeast of moon skill do 999 to all of us one time,even i did magic shield and protect up both.how can i win this?

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38 minutes ago, shiliwei said:

godbeast of moon skill do 999 to all of us one time,even i did magic shield and protect up both.how can i win this?

You can win either by randomly guessing what causes the 999 damage and then reacting accordingly, or alternatively you can scroll up to one of the previous posts that says that

Spoiler

level 2/3 techs will prevent the 999 damage.

Just be careful, since

Spoiler

other GBs also have really ad hoc gimmicks where the mod expects you to guess out of nowhere how to counter them.

 

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21 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

 

  Hide contents

other GBs also have really ad hoc gimmicks where the mod expects you to guess out of nowhere how to counter them.

 

as if this was the only game to do this...
you know what? Dolan needs a buff

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4 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

as if this was the only game to do this...
you know what? Dolan needs a buff

That's typically a sign of pathetic design choices.
I think Dolan and every enemy in the game needs to be replaced with level 99 Black Rabites with 100 million HP and max stats, each attack doing an unblockable 999 damage to everyone, and your characters should be capped to level 1 with 1 HP and 0 MP, and if you get a game over, the game will automatically delete all your in-game saves.

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1 minute ago, Serafie1999AD said:

That's typically a sign of pathetic design choices.
I think Dolan and every enemy in the game needs to be replaced with level 99 Black Rabites with 100 million HP and max stats, each attack doing an unblockable 999 damage to everyone, and your characters should be capped to level 1 with 1 HP and 0 MP, and if you get a game over, the game will automatically delete all your in-game saves.

Great idea, I'll get right on it!

Ok, seriously, wtf is your problem with the boss?
Having a boss threaten with a OP charge move is standard RPG fare.
Time limit bosses like various wall bosses in FFs, SoM1, ...
Bosses that prepare for a supermove (FFs Odin usually when he raises his sword)
All the same concept.
You get a tell and then you have to either defend or cancel the move asap OR DIE.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW HERE!!

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Thing with Dolan is you just gotta take it slow with him.

Spoiler

Just set all your characters techs to no tech usage. That way you have better control over tech usage for the fight, than have your AI spam them without control. It drags the battle but it's a safe strategy.

Since 2-3 playthroughs since I used that strat Dolan hasn't killed me once as opposed to before where I was just controling one characters level 2/3 tech, in that scenario he killed me at least once since I had no tech ready to cancel out his energy ball at some point.

But for a first time player sure it may difficult to figure that out, but it's a mod, at least this mod makes these 8 bossed worth calling them God Beasts, in the original when hit with a weakness and level 1 techs the God Beasts were getting wrecked in a minute. All this hype the game gave around them over nothing, they are pathetic in the original. 

 

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2 hours ago, smileless said:

Thing with Dolan is you just gotta take it slow with him.

  Hide contents

Just set all your characters techs to no tech usage. That way you have better control over tech usage for the fight, than have your AI spam them without control. It drags the battle but it's a safe strategy.

Since 2-3 playthroughs since I used that strat Dolan hasn't killed me once as opposed to before where I was just controling one characters level 2/3 tech, in that scenario he killed me at least once since I had no tech ready to cancel out his energy ball at some point.

But for a first time player sure it may difficult to figure that out, but it's a mod, at least this mod makes these 8 bossed worth calling them God Beasts, in the original when hit with a weakness and level 1 techs the God Beasts were getting wrecked in a minute. All this hype the game gave around them over nothing, they are pathetic in the original. 

 

ok,i got it, i need to cancel moon beast energy ball,thank you

Edited by shiliwei

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15 hours ago, praetarius5018 said:

Ok, seriously, wtf is your problem with the boss?
Having a boss threaten with a OP charge move is standard RPG fare.
Time limit bosses like various wall bosses in FFs, SoM1, ...
Bosses that prepare for a supermove (FFs Odin usually when he raises his sword)
All the same concept.
You get a tell and then you have to either defend or cancel the move asap OR DIE.
THIS IS NOTHING NEW HERE!!

The issue with Dolan in particular (the other God Beast are nowhere near as bad) is the tell is pretty hard to figure and the way to cancel it is even harder to figure, between 2 Spiral Moons he does a bunch of moves, which one trigger the 999 ? Is it a buff is it a debuff, no way to tell for sure at first, after some tries you might figure out it has something to do with Energy Ball, now the logical reflex would be to get Anti-Magic to dispel his buff, you try and you get reckt.... again now you are wondering if you were wrong, now you have to guess that LV2/3 tech cancel his Energy Ball, and since you are most likely occupied debuffing him at the beginning you might not even get to use one early in the fight (cause waiting that he is debuff to maximize damage for instance), so your only way to guessed it is get a tech between the 2 Spiral Moons see that the second doesn't do 999 and pull the pieces together and all of that with absolutly 0 clues. And on top of that his gimmick can screw because of lag preventing the game to load your tech or him casting Energy Ball then going straight into a guard where you can't hit him and get tech points.

Now you are the modder so of course you know the gimmick already, now I want to know for players who play this mod and manage to figure out his gimmick legit without looking up on Internet or having someone tell you how many tries it tooks to guessed it ? This fight is frustrating cause keep getting killed over and over for something that you can't clearly guess. And yes lot of RPG has bosses like that but there is generally a good tell either a visual clue (Odin raising his sword or Bahamut starting a countdown) or a dialogue that give you an hint (Trumpeter's dialogue at the beginning of the fight in SMT Nocturne) or whatever... Dolan has non of that it's all pure guessing.

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You don't even have to figure out that energy ball is the culprit.
You start the battle, he slams you with spiral moon - you don't die.
The does energy ball, howl, spiral moon - this time you die.
Does it even matter whether it is eb or howl?
You just have to figure out that you have to do something.
What can this something be?
Not spells since there's little guaranteed overlap between possible teams.
Items with their high prices shouldn't be the solution either.

25 minutes ago, Nesouk said:

and since you are most likely occupied debuffing him at the beginning you might not even get to use one early in the fight

Great, by doing that you have already eliminated that you got one shot because you didn't debuff him.
Buffs should also be done because of how much time he gives you while he climbs up.

Doesn't really leave many options open then.

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These clues are only in your head. Since you know how to solve it, and everyone who's either found the solution or looked it up online know it, the solution is obvious to those who already know it. However, for those who don't, they can only randomly guess, with nothing in-game hinting what you should do. You can keep claiming all you want that the solution is obvious when you already know the solution, but that doesn't remove how you seem to be blind to your own vision and can't think from the perspective of those who don't know all the secrets of the mod like you do.

1 hour ago, Nesouk said:

Now you are the modder so of course you know the gimmick already, now I want to know for players who play this mod and manage to figure out his gimmick legit without looking up on Internet or having someone tell you how many tries it tooks to guessed it ?

I figured it out "semi-legit", by spamming save/load states for 15 minutes and trying all kind of random things until I figured out what cancels the 999 attack. That's not a way to create challenge, though, that's a "keep randomly guessing until you succeed". So many people have asked the same question on these forums that the answer is clearly not obvious to them. I've heard comments like this on other forums:

Quote

Oh god, don't remind me. Made it to the god-beasts and then quit because they have weird bullshit quirks that you won't know until someone tells you or you find out (unlikely, since the mod is horrendously tedious otherwise, so you'll quit way before that).
Honestly, Sin of Mana would actually work way better in the remake than in classic. I don't mind Spiral Moon doing 930 damage if I can dodge it.

 

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20 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

These clues are only in your head.

How is him casting Energy Ball and Howl in my head?
If you are blind that is not my problem.

22 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

You can keep claiming all you want that the solution is obvious when you already know the solution

I never said it is obvious, stop that bullshit.
I said that there are many options you can exclude via logic, like any of the stuff that would require the presence of a specific character or class.

21 minutes ago, Serafie1999AD said:

I figured it out "semi-legit", by spamming save/load states for 15 minutes and trying all kind of random things until I figured out what cancels the 999 attack.

Please tell me what options you thought of.
I'm legit curious what other skills I have to work with in SD3 that I'm so far not aware of.

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Quote

You don't even have to figure out that energy ball is the culprit.
You start the battle, he slams you with spiral moon - you don't die.
The does energy ball, howl, spiral moon - this time you die.
Does it even matter whether it is eb or howl?
You just have to figure out that you have to do something.
What can this something be?
Not spells since there's little guaranteed overlap between possible teams.
Items with their high prices shouldn't be the solution either.

Unless you are deep into the discussion in this forum and KNOW the fact you balance the gimmicks to be done by any team. What says that it is ? What guaranteed that you won't ask for a specific ability considering many spell can be use through items, and you sold your mod as an Hardtype mod and Hardtype mod can be crazy and ask for specific things ? If I am a stranger looking to play SD3 with a mod and pick your mod what guaranteed me that you actually won't require a specific spell or item at one point ?

So not every people will exclude having to need a specific spell/items for the God Beast, for instance first time I played your mod before I become active here and discuss more and understand your design for this, I legit think I needed Anti-Magic to deal with Mispolm upon seeing he was reflecting my physical damage and took nothing from magic, only after I saw LV2/3 where the key, same deal with Dolan at first I thought he had put a debuff on my team with either the first Spiral Moon or his Roar so I use Stardust Herbs, it fails, then I thought about Energy Ball giving a buff and since the ONLY way to normally get rid of buff on ennemies in this game is Anti Magic (or casting the opposite debuff) I thought I need it, so I exit the dungeon buy Specter's Eye and it fails again, took me some more attempts to figure it.

To be honnest for all the love I have for your mod and all the fun I have with it, I have issues here you are really stubborn and don't listen or ignore feedback I don't know, a lot of people have already come here complaining about not being able to figure out Dolan's gimmick and you can guess there will be more people coming, so there is obviously a problem here, yet you keep denying it. And this isn't the first you seemed to ignore stuff just for my own perspective :

-I and other mention several times for mounth how Spike damage were OP, you didn't address it until last version
-I told here several time over multiple month how the armor that make spell neutral was glitched sometime just after post of yours, yet when the matter was bring on discord it's as if you discovered it.
-I mentionned several time Day Bonus could be exploit to increase damage, yet it only became an issue because a guy who didn't even know the mechanic complain about it on discord.
-I also mentionned multiple how you could use Earth Bracelet to get the Final Weapons earlier, yet again it became an issue when someone who didn't even know about it complain about it.
-The stacking 6 beastman collars one is even sillier, I got insulted for suggesting it on Discord, while originally it was someone on this forum (think it was Serafie actually) who suggest it to me after I run into money problem on my first run, and it actually save my first run, I used it on every run afterward and mention a LOT of time it's efficiency, so it's effiency and fact it broked the money curve was prove since at least 2 years, yet became only a problem when a guy who didn't know about it complain about it on Discord.

I mean at this point I'm wondering why I'm even bothering giving feedback here and pointing stuff, when apparently I'm getting ignored most of the time.

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