Barnacle_Ed

Character/Job Party Recommendations

491 posts in this topic

31 minutes ago, smileless said:

Never played Dervish, but this sounds like a pretty damn powerful team for him. I wonder if by having a stronger wolf form also imcreases his lv3 tech. While his final weapon I assume only effects normal hits and level 1 tech I suppose?

As I understood it, the weapon just gives a huge bonus to attack (at the cost of defense), so it should affect even techs

Edited by Kei

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9 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Also, one more question while I have your attention: Does invert armor flip crit rate buff/debuff spells like Energy Ball and Analyze?

The arbitrary list only includes:
atk, def, m.def, m.atk, hp, mp, hit, evade

so no.

1 hour ago, smileless said:

I wonder if by having a stronger wolf form also imcreases his lv3 tech. While his final weapon I assume only effects normal hits and level 1 tech I suppose?

It increases his attack stat so all physical damage except for traps and ninjutsus which he doesn't have anyway.

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2 hours ago, smileless said:
23 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Ninja Master/Dervish/Sage: I'm extremely curious about Dervish's Berserker wolf form; the attack boost looks insane. Dervish can add Protect Up and Speed Up to Sage's Mind Up with invert armor, Ninja Master and Dervish can go for critical hits with Analyze and Energy Ball, and Dervish can Boost Sage's Rainbow Dust with Antimagic and Poison Breath/Leaf Coat. Plus, this team will have Moon Saber and Leaf Saber which I'd like to explore more; Moon Saber together with the yellow damage HP rasp weapons and Sage's passive heal could be just enough to keep two double-hitters afloat in the endgame.

Never played Dervish, but this sounds like a pretty damn powerful team for him. I wonder if by having a stronger wolf form also imcreases his lv3 tech. While his final weapon I assume only effects normal hits and level 1 tech I suppose?

Dervish's final weapon raises raw attack power so it should affect all levels of techs. My idea here is that double hitters are much better at rasping back HP than single hitters, so by throwing in passive heal, Water Jutsu, saber/resistance (with Diamond of Flame Saber here), and Protect up if you have Dervish inverted, you should be able to rely more on melee/techs in the endgame.

2 hours ago, smileless said:
23 hours ago, rpschamp said:

Wanderer/Grand Divina/Necromancer: Grand Divina/Necromancer is a great combination for spell damage in the six major elements and Heal Light. Plus, Grand Divina can switch to team leader once her spells become instant, allowing three casters with Wanderer and Necromancer sniping away threats with Half Vanish/elemental/Leaf Coat damage. The major question for me is whether this team can work smoothly without shields. Star Lancer would be good option in place of Wanderer to address this problem, but at the moment, I think I'd rather have Wanderer's double hit and spell versatility than Star Lancer's shield option and useful but MP-heavy summon. I will think on it some more.

Sounds nice, but you should be willing to cast Magic Shield on all 3 chars but on the upside it boosts magic and physical defense along with healing power for Grand Divina. It has also Speed up which all benefit ftom these two spells.

There is no mind up for this team keep in mind but once Grand Divina gets her final weapon she could boost spell damage using her spells as sabers, so I would aim to get her final weapon as soon as W/A seeds become available to get.

I feel less certain about this team. My idea here was that Wanderer and Necromancer could be set to casting while Grand Divina fires off instant (or close to instant) damage spells; melee would not even be attempted in the endgame. The problem with this strategy though is that it has no contingency plan; if enemies get through, there's no easy way to heal and back out. And as you said, I would have to Magic Shield three characters to get my defenses in order if I want to be able to take any hits.

I'm thinking now instead that a shield user offers too many advantages to ignore; plus, the point of this project is to compare melee/tech and spell damage strategies, and most spell damage teams would be wise to bring along shields. I would prefer Lise to Duran in this case since I'd like to keep both teams on the same quest, and Lise has other options that make her a more natural fit for a spell damage team (Mind Up, summons, etc.). In addition to the Star Lancer/Grand Divina/X (Evil Shaman, Necromancer, or Ninja Master) ideas that were discussed before, I'd like to consider Fenrir Knight as potential a team leader. Her final weapon is just awesome for MP recovery, and helps with HP recovery as well; with her shields and final weapon, she offers unique advantages to a spell-damage focus team. Some ideas:

- Fenrir Knight/Grand Divina/Necromancer: Necromancer can be inverted into a ST buff machine with Black Curse. Interestingly, the inversion may help the saber/resist strategy by adding a -10% instead of a +10% to enemy attack power (I have not confirmed this). Apart from this, you have lots of good elemental damage options, good heal options, and a second Transshape caster; the opening play would be Power Down by Fenrir Knight, Transsshape on Fenrir Knight by Grand Divina, and Dark Saber on all enemies by Necromancer; then, distract with Lise and buff/bomb with the others. The equipment requirements for this to work are heavy though; you need armors and helms on Lise and Angela for shared Dark resistance and invert armor on Carlie if you want further buffs. Still, I think this team could be quite effective.

- Fenrir Knight/Magus/Bishop: This team would have worked better in the previous version of this mod when Bishop had Protect Up. Still, Magus can bring heavy damage, and you have good options in both elemental and neutral spell damage. Shared Fire resistance through Valkyrie Mail.

- Fenrir Knight/Wanderer/Sage: No Angela! What kind of spell-damage team is this? Well, Fenrir Knight has her summon, Wanderer has Half Vanish, and Sage has some MT options. This team does well with buffs/debuffs and healing; my main concern is the lack of basic elemental damage options. Shared Fire resistance through Valkyrie Mail.

Edited by rpschamp

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59 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

The arbitrary list only includes:
atk, def, m.def, m.atk, hp, mp, hit, evade

so no.

If this is true for all spells that affect atk, then an inverted Necromancer casting Dark Saber on all enemies should apply a -10% to atk instead of a +10%, thereby making this saber/resist strategy even more powerful. Thanks!

Edited by rpschamp

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28 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Dervish's final weapon raises raw attack power so it should affect all levels of techs. My idea here is that double hitters are much better at rasping back HP than single hitters, so by throwing in passive heal, Water Jutsu, saber/resistance (with Diamond of Flame Saber here), and Protect up if you have Dervish inverted, you should be able to rely more on melee/techs in the endgame.

Yeah saw it. Both this and the Wanderer/Warrior Monk/Necromancer sound pretty damn good, I might try either of the two on my next run now that I finished my current run earlier.

37 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Fenrir Knight/Grand Divina/Necromancer: Necromancer can be inverted into a ST buff machine with Black Curse. Interestingly, the inversion may help the saber/resist strategy by adding a -10% instead of a +10% to enemy attack power (I have not confirmed this). Apart from this, you have lots of good elemental damage options, good heal options, and a second Transshape caster; the opening play would be Power Down by Fenrir Knight, Transsshape on Fenrir Knight by Grand Divina, and Dark Saber on all enemies by Necromancer; then, distract with Lise and buff/bomb with the others. The equipment requirements for this to work are heavy though; you need armors and helms on Lise and Angela for shared Dark resistance and invert armor on Carlie if you want further buffs. Still, I think this team could be quite effective.

Yeah I don't think I wiuld sacrifice all these slots, at very least I would choose Starlancer here instead of Necromancer so you free Dark Carlie from the role as a buffer and have a different armor for her while you have multi target def up as option for mob fights.

Carlie should debuff the heaviest hitter among the mobs, and Angela spams her spells. Haven't checked what shared resistance could be taken to advantage here tho.

39 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

- Fenrir Knight/Magus/Bishop: This team would have worked better in the previous version of this mod when Bishop had Protect Up. Still, Magus can bring heavy damage, and you have good options in both elemental and neutral spell damage. Shared Fire resistance through Valkyrie Mail

Even without protect up it's still doable I say, use Magic Shield on Lise she is the one that the enemied will attack, power down, flame saber on mobs, Magus spams spells.

41 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Fenrir Knight/Wanderer/Sage: No Angela! What kind of spell-damage team is this? Well, Fenrir Knight has her summon, Wanderer has Half Vanish, and Sage has some MT options. This team does well with buffs/debuffs and healing; my main concern is the lack of basic elemental damage options. Shared Fire resistance through Valkyrie Mail.

Wanderer also has Anti-Magic, you have the Curse Upgrade as option to take advantage of here.

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1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

If this is true for all spells that affect atk, then an inverted Necromancer casting Dark Saber on all enemies should apply a -10% to atk instead of a +10%, thereby making this saber/resist strategy even more powerful. Thanks!

No that remains +10%.
By the time the +10% is applied the game doesn't know anymore who inflicted it.
For regular buffs this is no problem since each of the mentioned buffs has an existing debuff counterpart, sabers don't.

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9 minutes ago, praetarius5018 said:

No that remains +10%.
By the time the +10% is applied the game doesn't know anymore who inflicted it.
For regular buffs this is no problem since each of the mentioned buffs has an existing debuff counterpart, sabers don't.

I see; thanks for that clarification! I thought I uncovered an extra net -20% attack power debuff there haha.

Edited by rpschamp

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26 minutes ago, smileless said:

Yeah I don't think I wiuld sacrifice all these slots, at very least I would choose Starlancer here instead of Necromancer so you free Dark Carlie from the role as a buffer and have a different armor for her while you have multi target def up as option for mob fights.

Carlie should debuff the heaviest hitter among the mobs, and Angela spams her spells. Haven't checked what shared resistance could be taken to advantage here tho.

Star Lancer, Grand Divina, Necromancer/Evil Shaman can go for an easy Saint Saber/shared Light Resistance with Dusk Dress on Angela. It's too bad though, I'd really like to find a Lise/Angela/Carlie pairing that works well with Fenrir Knight to take advantage of her final weapon, but I'm not sure if the simplicity of the Star Lancer setup can be beat.

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12 minutes ago, rpschamp said:

Star Lancer, Grand Divina, Necromancer/Evil Shaman can go for an easy Saint Saber/shared Light Resistance with Dusk Dress on Angela. It's too bad though, I'd really like to find a Lise/Angela/Carlie pairing that works well with Fenrir Knight to take advantage of her final weapon, but I'm not sure if the simplicity of the Star Lancer setup can be beat.

Yeah I wouldn't risk replacing Starlancer with Fenrir Knight there, but your other two options with Fenrir Knight looks good tho, in this one Starlancer simply works a lot better.

Edited by smileless

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On 5/14/2020 at 2:08 PM, smileless said:

Yeah I wouldn't risk replacing Starlancer with Fenrir Knight there, but your other two options with Fenrir Knight looks good tho, in this one Starlancer simply works a lot better.

Well, since Kevin and Hawk are probably going to have their tech gain brought down to 1 TP per attack in 2.0, I've decided to give up this spell-damage team for now and just focus on Purple Reign, my Ninja Master/Dervish/Sage team. I'm finally going to get a chance to start this week; I'm very excited about this run. It will be a good sendoff to everybody's favorite level 1 tech prodigies.

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On 5/14/2020 at 1:28 PM, smileless said:
On 5/14/2020 at 12:42 PM, rpschamp said:

Dervish's final weapon raises raw attack power so it should affect all levels of techs. My idea here is that double hitters are much better at rasping back HP than single hitters, so by throwing in passive heal, Water Jutsu, saber/resistance (with Diamond of Flame Saber here), and Protect up if you have Dervish inverted, you should be able to rely more on melee/techs in the endgame.

Yeah saw it. Both this and the Wanderer/Warrior Monk/Necromancer sound pretty damn good, I might try either of the two on my next run now that I finished my current run earlier.

Did you ever end up running one of these groups? I've been focused on other things this past month, but am now picking up my Ninja Master/Dervish/Sage team again. I'm close to my second class change and deciding between Ninja Master and Nightblade. Having two double-hitters is a lot of fun and a nice break from my usual Angela-driven teams. I'm wondering if you ever ended up playing this or some other Hawk/Kevin/Carlie variation we talked about.

Edited by rpschamp

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1 hour ago, rpschamp said:

Did you ever end up running one of these groups? I've been focused on other things this past month, but am now picking up my Ninja Master/Dervish/Sage team again. I'm close to my second class change and deciding between Ninja Master and Nightblade. Having two double-hitters is a lot of fun and a nice break from my usual Angela-driven teams. I'm wondering if you ever ended up playing this or some other Hawk/Kevin/Carlie variation we talked about.

I haven't tried it yet but I left that party at like level 12 or something but I plan on continuing it at some point (the Wanderer/WM/Necromamcer one)

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Alright been a while I haven't posted here (or rather have actively play the mod), so even tough 2.0 is on the way, I'm gonna give my thought in regard to the new Death Hand, played up the the God Beasts only Zable Fahr left, my team is Gran Divina, Ninja Master and Death Hand, Gran Divina and Ninja Master haven't change at all (just Ninja Master getting Transshape) gonna focus on Death Hand here.

He lost a bit of raw power but overall this is still Kevin and he can still deal high damage, plus he gain great utility with Magic Shield still convince this is a great support spell, especially with Gran Divina who has Heal Light but neither Mind Up or Magic Shield herself and has a high INT giving her quite a huge MP Pool and a good MP regen rate. For his other spell Aura Wave is always nice to have and he can put it on other character unlike before, Dark Saber is situationnal and MT Lunatic is welcome, don't have much use for Speed Up as Gran Divina already have it. His new final weapon is really nice on bosses since they tend to take quite a while, 2 fights in perticular when it comes really handy :

-Dolan : Since you are gonna use LV2/3 a lot in this fight, and he has a great defense but with his Final Weapon Death Hand help against his high defense (since Fireblaze is hard to use in this fight due to the need to save TP for LV2/3) making Death Hand really good in this fight.

-Land Umber : Granted you can already do it with Fireblaze and landing counter but Death Hand's LV2/3 is easier to use basically his Final Weapon makes him the Perfect Counter against Land Umber gimmick (Ninja Master being also great to counter his gimmick with his Final Weapon + Fireblaze) as it doesn't matter how much he raise his defense can always lowering it ^^.

So yeah the new Death Hand is fun, less power but more utility, like it. While I'm on it opinion on other changes :

-Yellow Number heal type of weapon : Already discuss this on Discord but while it is a good reason to invest in Luck early, this weapon is broken especially on Hawk and Kevin to the point that I stop using it after a certain point, the effect is a good idea but it should be nerf a bit.

-Consume HP to cast accessory : Well this is pretty big nerf, basically the only character that beneficiate from this accessories now are the character that can cast Heal Light, assuming the PIE make Heal Light strong enough it can give an infinite heal light, pretty much the only use for this accessory now is to save Magic Walnut on Heal Light user ^^ (won't work on Lightgazer tough for obvious reason), infinite cast of LV3 Spells with Rune Master, Half Vanish on Wanderer might be possible with intense healing from external source. Anyway think it's good it still have some uses, but isn't as broken as before.

-Crit Reworks : Well this is one change I'm less fan of, while yeah Crit are more viable now, this change ends up beneficiate the ennemies more than the player, the amount of Crit the ennemies get has become ridiculous and their damage is through the roof, on Hard now LCK is pretty much a stat you MUST invest to have decent chance of not getting one shot left and right by ennemies crit.

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On 7/25/2020 at 6:41 AM, Nesouk said:

-Yellow Number heal type of weapon : Already discuss this on Discord but while it is a good reason to invest in Luck early, this weapon is broken especially on Hawk and Kevin to the point that I stop using it after a certain point, the effect is a good idea but it should be nerf a bit.

I agree here; I've been running Ninja Master, Dervish, Sage, and these weapons are basically indispensable for my two double-hitters. I think Praetarius plans to nerf these by taking away the heal on Level 1 tech, though, which should nerf them by up to 50%, depending on how you use your double-hitters. This might be sufficient.

On 7/25/2020 at 6:41 AM, Nesouk said:

-Consume HP to cast accessory : Well this is pretty big nerf, basically the only character that beneficiate from this accessories now are the character that can cast Heal Light, assuming the PIE make Heal Light strong enough it can give an infinite heal light, pretty much the only use for this accessory now is to save Magic Walnut on Heal Light user ^^ (won't work on Lightgazer tough for obvious reason), infinite cast of LV3 Spells with Rune Master, Half Vanish on Wanderer might be possible with intense healing from external source. Anyway think it's good it still have some uses, but isn't as broken as before.

Also agree. I've been happily using this on my Sage, but I can't imagine many other classes benefiting except for Bishop, Grand Divina, and maybe Heal Light-oriented Light Duran or Light Kevin. Damage casters in general are going to have a hard time using this.

On 7/25/2020 at 6:41 AM, Nesouk said:

-Crit Reworks : Well this is one change I'm less fan of, while yeah Crit are more viable now, this change ends up beneficiate the ennemies more than the player, the amount of Crit the ennemies get has become ridiculous and their damage is through the roof, on Hard now LCK is pretty much a stat you MUST invest to have decent chance of not getting one shot left and right by ennemies crit.

While this is not a debilitating problem for high Luck builds (which happens to be my entire current team), I can imagine this would really hurt casters that ignore their Vitality and Luck stats. Maybe this is intended?

On 7/25/2020 at 6:41 AM, Nesouk said:

So yeah the new Death Hand is fun, less power but more utility, like it.

I had a tough time choosing between Death Hand and Dervish for my current team; I went with Dervish, mainly for Anti-magic and Poison Breath to support Sage's Rainbow Dust, which I can happily say I'm finally getting some use out of in the current version! I'm at the God Beasts as well, but early in the process; I've had to take a lot of time off to prepare for a new job, new location, etc., but I plan to do a write-up once I finally get the final weapons and finish off the God Beasts. Overall though, Hawk, Kevin, Carlie are pretty crazy in the current version; Praetarius's plan to nerf tech points on the double-hitters in 2.0 should help to balance the melee.

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Kevin's definitly one of the big change in last version, I also hesitate trying Dervish, the Anti-Magic must certainly be nice ^^. However next team I'll play will be with Warrior Monk the idea of it being the only healer with debuff spells makes him interesting think I'm gonna do Warrior Monk, Star Lancer and Swordmaster on my next play.

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3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

I think Praetarius plans to nerf these by taking away the heal on Level 1 tech, though, which should nerf them by up to 50%, depending on how you use your double-hitters. This might be sufficient.

It will only proc on crits and counters.

3 hours ago, rpschamp said:

While this is not a debilitating problem for high Luck builds (which happens to be my entire current team), I can imagine this would really hurt casters that ignore their Vitality and Luck stats. Maybe this is intended?

From what I've heard noone ever skimps on VIT and half the caster have luck as secondary damage stat.

Overall I think the threat of crits is overstated; I had a test Angela with 15 VIT (never put a point there) take a measly 100~120 damage from lv90+ Nightblades on a non-crit.
She'd still need 4-5 crits to die - and I'm not a fan of facetankable content.

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