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Brave New World 1.8.5 is now available!

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I second the evasion on Gau. He will be squishy for a pretty long time but can get decent evade. Just finished the decent into hell..er Floating Continent with him even at 19/20 I still needed to max evade and slap bell + guard ring on him just to live long enough to rage. I used him on Dada though.. well I use him on everything including the main sweeper team at Narshe.. he is my MVP after all heh. Don't recall needing safe to survive but I did run him with hp buffing (green beret or relics) to keep him above instakill range until around 15.

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For the Narshe randoms, you'll want to turtle using NoiseBlaster. Don't try to brute force all those human enemies; counterattacks will kill you. Muddle the foes, pick them off with magic attacks (or let them pick themselves off) Runic / Cure with Celes. Bum rush the rider though, using the Demon rage with Gau; he's too strong to play games with. Kefka should be fairly simple after all of that.

That's my recommended strategy at least. Gau will probably die several times against the Narshe randoms themselves. Unfortunately, IIRC, there's no real trick to avoiding that. You just have to muscle your way through it with Phoenix Downs. NoiseBlaster is your main defense for Gau. Don't remember if it works on the dog enemies though; if not, you'll just have to accept that those dog enemies are going to murder Gau.

*****

Hey, BTB, spitball: what if the Knight Cape's "Guard Ally" wasn't dependent upon ally HP? Something like "Randomly Guards an ally with an ? % chance" or "Guards allies when Defending." Or even just raise the HP threshold for Wounded? Something so that "Cover" can be an actual strategy to consider, instead of just a gimmick.

*****

EDIT: Whelp, I tried to DPS Ultros with Banon. Turns out, Banon only gets two auto-criticals out of the Bolt Rod. There goes my fun. ; _ ; Still, it was enough for an opening salvo of 300 swing + 800 Bolt 2.

Edited by thzfunnymzn
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i brute force it all the time B|; i think they only counter 1/3 of the time. stick edgar in the back row, give him a stout spear and full set of iron armour (including a shield) and he's fine. noiseblaster works too and is probably safer. my only complaint with it is that it seems to take much longer.

 

i would also like to see cover improved. fwiw i never buy the knight cape.

 

edit: 3 dragonflys,

one uses !special on locke, berserks him and triggers locke's counter, which triggers a gale cut counter.

another casts gale cut

locke gets his turn, and attacks the third, who counters with gale cut.

i hate these things so much.

Edited by seraph9888
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Any thoughts on damage focused Gau vs healing Gau, and the same for Mog? I need one extra healer and those two are the ones I haven't stuck any esper levels into yet, so I figure I'll make one a healer and one damage. It would be mage Mog, since I already have Edgar set up for dragooning.

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You can go either way.  Healer Gau is probably a little more reliable than Mog, although Mog's dances are still good.  The nice thing about Gau is you can quite easily do healing and damage with the same EL build, just swap rages.  Use Stray for Stamina based heals/damage, or Fenrir for everything else.

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I think Gau's a more reliable healer. Stray's the common wisdom, but Fenrir Gau's got enough speed to be a solid healer too. Use whichever.

In my experience, Mog doesn't make a reliable healer. Not at all. His healing dances are useful for keeping the party topped off, but they're unreliable for healing off a big attack. I'd focus on making Mog a tank or a damage dealer. You've got plenty of attacking options with mage Mog.

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Gau has a fair degree of leeway regardless of build because he has good gearing options and usually has to focus his gear to suit a particular role or even a specific Rage (to cover weaknesses, supplement resistances, whatever). If you have a plan for what he's going to do then gear him appropriately; he isn't a terribly great generalist, though his Stamina-based Rages can do an okay job of that. Even with minimal Stray ELs he can suit up to be tanky and gain +Stamina from gear, which should make him a perfectly competent healer against all but heavy spike damage... which is why it helps to have someone else who CAN heal with him just in case, but they shouldn't be healing as their primary role.

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Whelp, I'll no more say bad things about dual-wielded Butterflies. Hyper Shadow just tore through Zozo like a hot knife threw butter. No threat from any of the randoms whatsoever. Didn't have any spare Butterflies to throw (I'm calculating ~1500 damage from a thrown Butterfly, or did I do something wrong?), so Shadow just spammed Smoke Bombs (defends against Elbow Drop) & Dried Meat against Dadaluma. Easiest Zozo run ever. (Sabin, Edgar, & Gau all helped too).

Still can't think of any particular reason for why I'd want to bring Celes to Zozo though. Anyone else got any insights? I was just proved wrong about something, I'm all ears.

*****

BTW, having extra money early game has removed any desire to grind up money for the various shops prior to the Magitek Factory. Also kills the desire to steal many Phoenix Downs from Gigas in Zozo.

Edited by thzfunnymzn
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36 minutes ago, thzfunnymzn said:

BTW, having extra money early game has removed any desire to grind up money for the various shops prior to the Magitek Factory. Also kills the desire to steal many Phoenix Downs from Gigas in Zozo.

weird, i've been experiencing a distinct lack of funds this playthrough. perhaps i missed a big chest somewhere. 

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I was having a hard time with the narshe part, after my 2nd game over I decided to make one really strong team and try to rush to the boss.  I was able to make it to kefka without any of the guards reaching banon; though, they were probably pretty close.

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On 5/28/2017 at 11:12 PM, seraph9888 said:

3 dragonflys,

one uses !special on locke, berserks him and triggers locke's counter, which triggers a gale cut counter.

another casts gale cut

locke gets his turn, and attacks the third, who counters with gale cut.

i hate these things so much.

I had something similar happen, except Locke was using a healing shiv which healed the only damage I'd done so far. 

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On 5/30/2017 at 7:52 PM, thzfunnymzn said:

(I'm calculating ~1500 damage from a thrown Butterfly, or did I do something wrong?)

Last time I played through Zozo, my thrown Butterflies were hitting Dadaluma for around 1k I believe. I also may not have had as much vigor as yours did, so my experience may be off. I don't recommend the strategy, though, because it basically required all my funds upon hiring Shadow to get the 10 Butterflies I ended up throwing at Big Daddy D.

Still, Shadow and his roving band of buffoons is the best way to murderate Zozo, hands-down.

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Butterfly Throw Spam is way too expensive of a strategy. You could bring along Locke to steal Butterflies, but Locke's redundant if you have Shadow (unless he goes Healing Shiv, which...meh).

You are right though, Shadow IS one of the best ways to murderate Zozo. I'm now forming the opinion that the best Zozo team, bar none, if Shadow / Gau / Edgar / Sabin. Cyan, Celes, and Locke just can't compete with the Figaro Bros., the ninja, and Rerise. (Rerise feels kinda necessary on Dadaluma in order for things to go smoothly. Spoon & Jump just deal too much damage).

Shadow being op here is fine - he costs money. Not really fond of how the Figaro Bros. are heads-and-tails above the others though - this hack has been working hard to eliminate flat-out "best characters." (vig Sabin didn't get the memo though). Edgar's obvious - the two AoE blasters are just way too important at this stage in the game, when everyone's so frail. Sabin just does ridiculous damage with Poison Claws (almost as much as a Thrown Kunai, IIRC), has high HP, and most importantly, can Slow & Sap Dadaluma.

Cyan's not bad for this point, he's just not one of the Figaro bros. Celes & Locke feel weak though, especially Celes. She has neither the magic nor the weapons to do anything useful except Cure, which she will run out of MP for.

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Celes is the only character without a strong damage option vs. Dadaluma and she's basically there for support. Locke and Shadow have Butterflies, Sabin has Poison Claws, Cyan has Dispatch, and Gau has Wild Rat. Edgar's damage options are relatively weak, but he's useful for Bio Blasting Dadaluma's Fighters and is the only character with a targetable sap option. He and Shadow are the only two I think are more useful than the others, and both require a significant money investment to claim that title.

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i actually like bringing locke and shadow. locke makes shadow significantly cheaper and has a decent attack himself. plus i don't want to come back to steal mystery eggs. edgar will always have a spot in my zozo team though. my fourth spot depends on who i'm taking to vector, but i leave celes babysitting banon. both to leave her at a lowish level, and because she is criminally useless in zozo. 

Edited by seraph9888
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You don't need Locke to steal from Zozo, unless you no longer get the Switchblade in/before it. It's random proc, but it can get the job done if you're just looking to steal opportunity things on your way through.

I'm not sure where this Celes hate in Zozo comes from. She's your only healer at this stage. She's bulkier than most of your other options, beating Cyan by virtue of knowing how to hold a shield, and Sabin by virtue of evasion. I think, and don't quote me on this, but I think she and Edgar can both survive either spoon or jump, whichever does less damage, if you take the Safety Glove at the Returner's Hideout and get the safe proc from it in this fight.

I agree that throwing Butterflies is expensive, but it's well worth the price. It is hands-down the single fastest way to take Dadaluma out, reducing the number of spoons and jumps he can throw your way. Also, I find the shop options largely irrelevant prior to Thamasa anyway. I'd suggest everyone try it at least once. And honestly, it was only like 5k for the 10 butterflies last time I tried this, which definitely feels more feasible now that cash flow has been increased.

I don't always throw gil at my problems, but when I do, I use Shadow to do it. 

Edited by vonriel
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2 hours ago, vonriel said:

I'm not sure where this Celes hate in Zozo comes from. She's your only healer at this stage.

 

Thank god, someone said it. People act as if running out of magic is a crime when you have Tinctures. (Assuming you even need to use any)

 

I still agree that she's the weakest link, but that's only because she's focusing on healing (which is mad important)

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the bug in which party members with image can be hit from the back still exists. it has not been fixed as was previously thought. 

Edited by seraph9888
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I dislike bringing Celes to Zozo because her healing will have to be supplemented with Dried Meats anyways both because of how limited her MP is & because, IIRC, Cure is still rather weak at this point in the game; because the main problem with Dadaluma is unavoidable deaths (Spoon, Jump) and Stop (Elbow Drop) which Celes can't heal; and because she has no good damage option.

Spoon ignores defense. It kills everyone, unless you're overleveled. Jump can be Defended against, which, IIRC, allows Sabin & Cyan to survive it. Elbow Drop is certainly something Celes & Edgar survive better than others, though they'll still need both healing & Remedy, just as anyone else would've needed a Phoenix Down & healing.

tl;dr, Celes really isn't that great of a healer in Zozo, and she has no attack power. If you argue "Tinctures," I argue "Dried Meats > Cure".

***

I was wrong on Locke though. Mug doesn't trigger counterattacks (missed that), so props for him. Shadow, yeah, Butterfly Throw spam will end Dadaluma fast. Personally think it's too expensive, but I acknowledge it's powerful.

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Speaking of "ending Dadaluma fast", has anyone attempted speedrunning this game? How many hours are we looking at?

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I've done some routing that seems to stall a lot due to laziness and the constant state of change the game seems to be in. But I have done runs up through cranes (4.5 hours with a 1hr of mistakes) and I'm thinking the game is probably around the 14-16 hour mark right now based on some educated guesswork and maths. 

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Huh...for once, an RPG speedrun can't be glitched thru in under an hour or beaten in 4-9 hours. The BNW speedrun actually takes a good chunk of time, a time still somewhat similar to a normal run. (Mot of my runs show a 60 hour game timer, and the speedrun sounds like it's only a quarter of that).

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It would really just be about executing a plan and knowing how to deal with rng. And there's a lot of rng to deal with. So you minimize rng, know exactly what you're doing every step of the way and try not to mess it up. 

Edited by Mishrak
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Hoooly shit, 14-16 hours? You could almost run 7 and 8 back to back in that time. (Side note, that sounds like a fun race for a marathon event: BNW vs 7+8)

I'd love to see practice runs or read through any route planning, btw. Wonder how many characters can reasonably be skipped?

Edited by TimeSpaceMage
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Finished IMF. Used Cyan & Sabin. Cyan took over healing from Celes. Celes mostly supported the boys with Runic Guard and the occasional Ice, as per usual. Didn't even get a chance to hit Number 024 with an elemental. : (

Loving how fat Kirin Locke's HP is. Allows me to dual wield without worrying about how many Phoenix Downs the poor thief treasure hunter is gonna need. Had a nice fat team (Celes had the lowest HP) that made Number 024 look like a chump - easiest 024 fight I've ever had. Got some cute Golem summons on the bosses thanks to the Magic Cube. (Level 14 is the magic level to pull this off as of the current build). Raw HP and Golem win fights yet again. : )

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